Did Noah's flood really happen?

[Still Waters]

Noah's flood is a story much older than the Bible, and researchers are still learning about its roots.

Noah's flood is one of the most recognized Bible stories. According to the Old Testament, "In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep burst forth, and the windows of the heavens were opened" (Genesis 7:11, English Standard Version).

As the text recounts, God saw wickedness within humans and sent a global inundation. Because Noah was righteous, God instructed him to build an ark for his family and save two of every beast, bird and creeping thing. But did Noah's flood really happen?

https://www.livescience.com/human-behavior/religion/did-noahs-flood-really-happen

[+and-then]

Yeah, the world has nothing to worry about from that fairytale...

 "For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be."

[jmccr8]

4 minutes ago, and-then said:

 "For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

Hi And Then

then the flood would have happened at a different time.

about 2350 B.C.

 

The first recorded evidence of marriage ceremonies uniting one woman and one man dates from about 2350 B.C., in Mesopotamia. Over the next several hundred years, marriage evolved into a widespread institution embraced by the ancient Hebrews, Greeks, and Romans.

https://theweek.com › articles › orig...

The origins of marriage - The Week

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Rlyeh]

2 hours ago, and-then said:

Yeah, the world has nothing to worry about from that fairytale...

 "For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be."

Parroting a fairy tale still doesn't make it true.

[Piney]

@cormac mac airt

I only know the North American floody stuff.

You got this.

[acute]

7 hours ago, Still Waters said:

"In the six hundredth year of Noah's life"

When I see that ^ I know the book is fiction.

[cormac mac airt]

54 minutes ago, Piney said:

@cormac mac airt

I only know the North American floody stuff.

You got this.

It’s not really worth rehashing IMO as the story isn’t even Hebrew to begin with. It’s a compilation of preceding Mesopotamian stories that, as is often the case, keeps getting bigger with each new telling. The original was both local and far less spectacular than the Biblical version. 
 

cormac

[+Noteverythingisaconspiracy]

3 hours ago, and-then said:

Yeah, the world has nothing to worry about from that fairytale...

 "For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be."

How is the present any worse than other points in time ?

Anyway didn't god promise not to flood the World again ?

[cormac mac airt]

Just now, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said:

How is the present any worse than other points in time ?

Anyway didn't god promise not to flood the World again ?

He kept His word as He never flooded it to begin with. 
 

cormac

[+Noteverythingisaconspiracy]

4 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

He kept His word as He never flooded it to begin with. 
 

cormac

Look at this:

Checkmate atheists ! 

[jmccr8]

5 minutes ago, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said:

Look at this:

Checkmate atheists ! 

Hi Not

So god is a cartoon artist then.

[+Noteverythingisaconspiracy]

2 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Not

So god is a cartoon artist then.

[Occupational Hubris]

The problem with this dumb myth is that no matter how many logical holes you poke in it (what about the fresh water fish?) adherents will just say "god did it" then go back to trying to restrict the rights of anyone not a white male. 

[Alchopwn]

13 hours ago, Still Waters said:

Noah's flood is a story much older than the Bible, and researchers are still learning about its roots.

Noah's flood is one of the most recognized Bible stories. According to the Old Testament, "In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep burst forth, and the windows of the heavens were opened" (Genesis 7:11, English Standard Version).

As the text recounts, God saw wickedness within humans and sent a global inundation. Because Noah was righteous, God instructed him to build an ark for his family and save two of every beast, bird and creeping thing. But did Noah's flood really happen?

https://www.livescience.com/human-behavior/religion/did-noahs-flood-really-happen

The most likely candidate for "Noah's Flood" was the flooding of the Persian Gulf about 15,000 years ago.  Unfortunately it is before the date of Bishop Berkley's date for the beginning of the world in 4004B.C., so if cannot be Noah's Flood.

[+Hammerclaw]

They're "Just So" stories, morality plays for the entertainment and instruction of children. 

[cormac mac airt]

1 hour ago, Alchopwn said:

The most likely candidate for "Noah's Flood" was the flooding of the Persian Gulf about 15,000 years ago.  Unfortunately it is before the date of Bishop Berkley's date for the beginning of the world in 4004B.C., so it cannot be Noah's Flood.

I think you mean Bishop Ussher. 
 

cormac

[Alchopwn]

15 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

I think you mean Bishop Ussher. 
 

cormac

Gulp. How long have I been getting this wrong for ?  I swear I used to know that.

[Davros of Skaro]

12 hours ago, and-then said:

Yeah, the world has nothing to worry about from that fairytale...

 "For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be."

Just as the Jesus character believed in Noah's Flood, do you believe in the molten glass dome Firmament that holds up the ocean of Heaven? The dome has windows which were opened to assist in the flood btw. The Quran has the sky dome, but the nature of sacrificing specifics for poetry, and the outdated classical Arabic lets it go unnoticed.

 

You too can see God's handiwork on a clear sunny day coming down 360° all around us.

1) In Genesis, and Psalms there's mention of waters above. In Genesis the waters are being separated from below to above, and are established forever. Some apologists would say it's the water cycle. Note: water & land is preexisting (no Creatio ex nihilo).

Genesis 1:6-7

NASB: "6 Then God said, “Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.” 7 God made the expanse, and separated the waters that were below the expanse from the waters that were above the expanse; and it was so."

KJV: "6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. 7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so."

YLT: "6And God saith, `Let an expanse be in the midst of the waters, and let it be separating between waters and waters.`7 And God maketh the expanse, and it separateth between the waters which [are] under the expanse, and the waters which [are] above the expanse: and it is so."

NRSV: "6 And God said, "Let there be a dome in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters." 7 So God made the dome and separated the waters that were under the dome from the waters that were above the dome. And it was so."

Psalm 148:4-6

NASB: "4 Praise Him, highest heavens, And the waters that are above the heavens 5 They are to praise the name of the Lord, For He commanded and they were created. 6 He has also established them forever and ever; He has made a decree, and it will not pass away."

KJV: "4 Praise him, ye heavens of heavens, and ye waters that be above the heavens. 5 Let them praise the name of the LORD: for he commanded, and they were created. 6 He hath also stablished them for ever and ever: he hath made a decree which shall not pass."

YLT: "4 Praise ye Him, heavens of heavens, And ye waters that are above the heavens. 5 They do praise the name of Jehovah, For He commanded, and they were created. 6 And He establisheth them for ever to the age, A statute He gave, and they pass not over."

NRSV: "4 Praise him, you highest heavens, and you waters above the heavens! 5 Let them praise the name of the LORD, for he commanded and they were created. 6 He established them forever and ever; he fixed their bounds, which cannot be passed."

2) In Genesis, and Isaiah there's windows, or floodgates in the sky which God opens to commit a flood genocide, and close to have righteous incestual population replenishment.

Genesis 7:11

NASB: "11 In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep burst open, and the floodgates of the sky were opened."

KJV: "11 In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened."

YLT: "11 In the six hundredth year of the life of Noah, in the second month, in the seventeenth day of the month, in this day have been broken up all fountains of the great deep, and the net-work of the heavens hath been opened,"

NRSV: "11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep burst forth, and the windows of the heavens were opened."

Genesis 8:2

NASB: "2 Also the fountains of the deep and the floodgates of the sky were closed, and the rain from the sky was restrained;"

KJV: "2 The fountains also of the deep and the windows of heaven were stopped, and the rain from heaven was restrained"

YLT: "2 and closed are the fountains of the deep and the net-work of the heavens, and restrained is the shower from the heavens."

NRSV: "2 the fountains of the deep and the windows of the heavens were closed, the rain from the heavens was restrained,"

Isaiah 24:18c

NASB: "18c For the windows above are opened, and the foundations of the earth shake."

KJV: "18c for the windows from on high are open, and the foundations of the earth do shake."

YLT: "18c For windows on high have been opened, And shaken are foundations of the land."

NRSV: "18c For the windows of heaven are opened, and the foundations of the earth tremble."

3) The Firmament in Proverbs, and Job clearly (as clear as the molten glass dome) talk about a firm cast metal strengthened mirror sky. In Proverbs it mentions the unpassable boundery of the sea which is why the light blue sea of Heaven does not mix with the deep blue ocean of the Earth (waters above/below) which one can observe looking out over the ocean.

Proverbs 8:28-29

NASB: "28 When He made firm the skies above, When the springs of the deep became fixed, 29 When He set a boundary for the sea So that the water would not violate His command, When He marked out the foundations of the earth;"

KJV: "28 When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep: 29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:"

YLT: "28 In His strengthening clouds above, In His making strong fountains of the deep, 29 In His setting for the sea its limit, And the waters transgress not His command, In His decreeing the foundations of earth,"

NRSV: "28 when he made firm the skies above, when he established the fountains of the deep, 29 when he assigned to the sea its limit, so that the waters might not transgress his command, when he marked out the foundations of the earth,"

Job 37:18

NASB: "18 Can you, with Him, spread out the skies, Strong as a cast metal mirror?"

KJV: "18 Hast thou with him spread out the sky, which is strong, and as a molten looking glass?"

YLT: "18 Thou hast made an expanse with Him For the clouds -- strong as a hard mirror!"

NRSV: "18 Can you, like him, spread out the skies, hard as a molten mirror?"

"Finally, it is worth pointing out that the world picture of the Jewish people, as reconstructed from various passages in the Bible, was essentially the same as that of the Egyptians and the Babylonians. ...The flat, disc-shaped Earth is surrounded by a sea; beneath the Earth, there are wells and fountains connected with the upper part of the Earth as well as with the great deep, called Tehom. The Earth rests on pillars, and above it is the sky or firmament. Waters are to be found not only on the Earth or beneath it, but also above the firmament."

Helge S. Kragh, Conception of Cosmos, pp. 10

A glass dome holds up an ocean, and the dark blue ocean does not mix with the light blue sky all due to an unpassable barrier. Who knew but the Lord.

Even though the Quran mentions terrestrial salt and fresh water seas, there's references though vague are reminiscent of the OT's cosmology (vague for the sake of Dopamine inducing poetry).

Quran (Pickthal/The Clear Quran/Saheeh International)

(PICKT) 21.032 "And we have made the sky a roof withheld (from them). Yet they turn away from its portents."

(TCQ) 21.32 "And We have made the sky a well-protected canopy, still they turn away from its signs."

(Saheeh) 21.32 "And We made the sky a protected ceiling, but they, from its signs, are turning away."

(PICKT) 25.053 "And He it is Who hath given independence to the two seas (though they meet); one palatable, sweet, and the other saltish, bitter; and hath set a bar and a forbidding ban between them."

(TCQ) 25.53 "And He is the One Who merges the two bodies of water: one fresh and palatable and the other salty and bitter, placing between them a barrier they cannot cross."

(Saheeh) 25.53 "And it is He who has released [simultaneously] the two seas, one fresh and sweet and one salty and bitter, and He placed between them a barrier and prohibiting partition."

(PICKT) 27.061 "Is not He (best) Who made the earth a fixed abode, and placed rivers in the folds thereof, and placed firm hills therein, and hath set a barrier between the two seas? Is there any God beside Allah? Nay, but most of them know not!"

(TCQ) 27.61 "Or [ask them,] “Who made the earth a place of settlement, caused rivers to flow through it, placed firm mountains upon it, and set a barrier between [fresh and salt] bodies of water? Was it another god besides God?” Absolutely not! But most of them do not know."

(Saheeh) 27.61 "Is He [not best] who made the earth a stable ground and placed within it rivers and made for it firmly set mountains and placed between the two seas a barrier? Is there a deity with Allah? [No], but most of them do not know."

(PICKT) 55.019-020 "He hath loosed the two seas. They meet. There is a barrier between them. They encroach not (one upon the other)."

(TCQ) 55.19-.20 "He merges the two bodies of [fresh and salt] water, yet between them is a barrier they never cross."

(Saheeh) 55.19-.20 "He released the two seas, meeting [side by side]; Between them is a barrier [so] neither of them transgress."

[Essan]

Not a very good article really - complete misses the point that the original Mesopotamian stories on which Noah was based describe thunder, terrific winds and a storm surge (as well as rain).   
 

[Alchopwn]

4 hours ago, Davros of Skaro said:

Just as the Jesus character believed in Noah's Flood, do you believe in the molten glass dome Firmament that holds up the ocean of Heaven? The dome has windows which were opened to assist in the flood btw. The Quran has the sky dome, but the nature of sacrificing specifics for poetry, and the outdated classical Arabic lets it go unnoticed.

An excellent post Davros.  If the world had ever been reduced to animals going 2 of every kind, then all animals would be extinct as 7 generations of inbreeding invariably produces sterility.

[TashaMarie]

Wasn't Noah's story "borrowed" from the Epic of Gilgamesh?

[Alchopwn]

22 minutes ago, TashaMarie said:

Wasn't Noah's story "borrowed" from the Epic of Gilgamesh?

Noah was called Utnapishtim if memory serves...

[Essan]

23 minutes ago, TashaMarie said:

Wasn't Noah's story "borrowed" from the Epic of Gilgamesh?

Yes (which in turn borrowed it from Atrahasis)

And by the time of the Bible story, the boat in which the hero survived the storm had transformed into an improbably big wooden box!   (We use the word ark today to refer to a boat simply because of the story, but an ark was originally just a wooden box or chest for storing precious items - most famously the ark of the covenant)

[Will Due]

10 minutes ago, Essan said:

the ark of the covenant

 

You're an ark.

 

 

Edited May 15 by Will Due

[Alchopwn]

Just now, Will Due said:

You're an ark.

Who knew you valued Essan's family jewels so highly WD ?