Jesus. A man of peace?

[Abramelin]

https://web.archive.org/web/20070221200145/http://www.nobeliefs.com/jesus.htm

I think the next quotes are worthy of a discussion.

What do yóu think?

 

Quote:

Christians have held the main character of the New Testament, Jesus the Christ, in high esteem for centuries. Even many who do not believe in the divinity of Jesus think that he gave an admirable example of moral living. Although we have no evidence that the Biblical Jesus ever existed, we can still examine the words of the Bible to extract the wisdom and morality of this character, regardless of whether he actually lived or not.

Does the Biblical Jesus merit the honor bestowed upon him? Unfortunately, preachers, ministers, and clergymen have given us biased, one-sided stories, emphasizing and inflating what they see as positive while subverting or ignoring the negative. Biblical scholarship of the last hundred years has not reached the common man. Instead, we see political ministers and televangelists making absurd biblical claims without anyone calling them accountable. Although over 90 percent of households in America own a Bible, it usually goes unread, or at best sanitized or bowdlerized to what people want it to say.

Unbeknownst to many Christians, many times the Gospels of the New Testament portray Jesus as vengeful, demeaning, intolerant, and hypocritical. In one section Jesus calls for love of enemies, yet in another to slay them. He tells others to not use hurtful names, yet he called others fools, dogs, and vipers. He calls for honoring parents in one verse, yet demands hate toward family members in another. Some of Jesus' words against his adversaries depict what some would call anti-Semitism. Indeed, the verses of the New Testament have fueled the flames of anti-Jewishness for centuries.

The following gives a brief look at the Biblical evidence about the claims of Jesus with quotes from the King James bible (the most used bible in the world). The verses contain links to an online Bible where it provides the reader with the entire chapter, for viewing the full context.

[+and-then]

He wouldn't have needed to teach followers of mercy and forbearance without first demonstrating the character and actions of those who were to be shown that mercy.  If you want a REAL hot topic, delve into what He has promised to do when He returns.  If His words shocked by calling out sin, His plans for those who are destroying His chosen and His gentile followers, as well as the earth itself, will leave people shocked and amazed. 

In simplest terms, most people expect Him to return as the innocent and helpless baby and to accept ALL, no matter what they've believed or done.  He returns as a roaring lion, a conqueror who will be drenched in the blood of those whose choice has been to do evil and reject good.  Those who will call Him evil as a result, will ignore the fact that mankind has a destructive, selfish nature and that the world and humanity can only be saved from total annihilation by removing those who find joy in evil doing.

[+Sherapy]

1 hour ago, Abramelin said:

https://web.archive.org/web/20070221200145/http://www.nobeliefs.com/jesus.htm

I think the next quotes are worthy of a discussion.

What do yóu think?

 

Quote:

Christians have held the main character of the New Testament, Jesus the Christ, in high esteem for centuries. Even many who do not believe in the divinity of Jesus think that he gave an admirable example of moral living. Although we have no evidence that the Biblical Jesus ever existed, we can still examine the words of the Bible to extract the wisdom and morality of this character, regardless of whether he actually lived or not.

Does the Biblical Jesus merit the honor bestowed upon him? Unfortunately, preachers, ministers, and clergymen have given us biased, one-sided stories, emphasizing and inflating what they see as positive while subverting or ignoring the negative. Biblical scholarship of the last hundred years has not reached the common man. Instead, we see political ministers and televangelists making absurd biblical claims without anyone calling them accountable. Although over 90 percent of households in America own a Bible, it usually goes unread, or at best sanitized or bowdlerized to what people want it to say.

Unbeknownst to many Christians, many times the Gospels of the New Testament portray Jesus as vengeful, demeaning, intolerant, and hypocritical. In one section Jesus calls for love of enemies, yet in another to slay them. He tells others to not use hurtful names, yet he called others fools, dogs, and vipers. He calls for honoring parents in one verse, yet demands hate toward family members in another. Some of Jesus' words against his adversaries depict what some would call anti-Semitism. Indeed, the verses of the New Testament have fueled the flames of anti-Jewishness for centuries.

The following gives a brief look at the Biblical evidence about the claims of Jesus with quotes from the King James bible (the most used bible in the world). The verses contain links to an online Bible where it provides the reader with the entire chapter, for viewing the full context.

For me, based on your specified terms, the Jesus character was polarizing. 

[Piney]

52 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

For me, based on your specified terms, the Jesus character was polarizing. 

Since his teachings weren't actually his and his biography in the synoptic Gospels is bogus, the point is moot.

On top of the fact the KJ is the most mistranslate and least accurate English bible.

[Piney]

1 hour ago, and-then said:

He wouldn't have needed to teach followers of mercy and forbearance without first demonstrating the character and actions of those who were to be shown that mercy.  If you want a REAL hot topic, delve into what He has promised to do when He returns.  If His words shocked by calling out sin, His plans for those who are destroying His chosen and His gentile followers, as well as the earth itself, will leave people shocked and amazed. 

In simplest terms, most people expect Him to return as the innocent and helpless baby and to accept ALL, no matter what they've believed or done.  He returns as a roaring lion, a conqueror who will be drenched in the blood of those whose choice has been to do evil and reject good.  Those who will call Him evil as a result, will ignore the fact that mankind has a destructive, selfish nature and that the world and humanity can only be saved from total annihilation by removing those who find joy in evil doing.

I'm sorry, I can't seem to find that in my Jerusalem or Koine Bible. It isn't in Penn's, Fox's, Wesley's or Calvin's commentaries either.

Is it some sort of bizarre product of some uneducated  Evangelical American minister's mind? Because you are too intelligent to be believing such tripe. 

[+Sherapy]

22 minutes ago, Piney said:

Since his teachings weren't actually his and his biography in the synoptic Gospels is bogus, the point is moot.

On top of the fact the KJ is the most mistranslate and least accurate English bible.

Thank you, I stand corrected. 

[Rlyeh]

1 hour ago, and-then said:

Those who will call Him evil as a result, will ignore the fact that mankind has a destructive, selfish nature and that the world and humanity can only be saved from total annihilation by removing those who find joy in evil doing.

While and-then will continue to worship his slave master.

[Piney]

53 minutes ago, Rlyeh said:

While and-then will continue to worship his slave master.

I still think he's a good person inside.

[zep73]

The bible isn't a fairytale, it is a horror show.

The horror of what he did to us in the past. The horror of what he did to his own son (he had a choice!). The horror of what he will do to us in the future, if we don't comply.

Good thing none of it is true. It's all lies and sick fantasies.

[+Hammerclaw]

1 hour ago, Piney said:

I'm sorry, I can't seem to find that in my Jerusalem or Koine Bible. It isn't in Penn's, Fox's, Wesley's or Calvin's commentaries either.

Is it some sort of bizarre product of some uneducated  Evangelical American minister's mind? Because you are too intelligent to be believing such tripe. 

Sounds rather like JW, doesn't he?

[cormac mac airt]

7 minutes ago, zep73 said:

The bible isn't a fairytale, it is a horror show.

The horror of what he did to us in the past. The horror of what he did to his own son (he had a choice!). The horror of what he will do to us in the future, if we don't comply.

Good thing none of it is true. It's all lies and sick fantasies.

It’s not even a horror story, it’s a ****-show of multiple blended ideologies that have little to nothing to do with each other with a further 2000 years to add onto that pile. What good things that come out of it aren’t even original to the Jews to begin with. 
 

cormac

[psyche101]

4 hours ago, Piney said:

I still think he's a good person inside.

That blows me away to be honest.

The morbid fascination with death, the constant threats to start civil war and the overly fond view of shooting. I would honestly be so concerned if he was my neighbour that I would report him to authorities. He seems a very angry violent person. Wasn't when I first joined, he was nice, now he really reminds me of the Bruce Willis character Ron Whitlock from the movie Deadlock. Honestly, some of the lines in that movie could have been plagiarized from his posts. 

 

Edited May 18 by psyche101

[Will Due]

 

It has to make you wonder, how this will all turn out.

 

 

[Hawken]

Seems that different Christian religions have put their own views on Jesus. JWs believe that Jesus and Michael the Arcangel are the same person.

And the Mormons believe Jesus came to the Americas after his resurrection and interacted with the natives. They believe that based on this verse.

John 10:16: “And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd.”  

To me this doesn't prove Jesus never existed. Only that over the centuries people have put their own spin on him.

 

 

[Guyver]

5 hours ago, Sherapy said:

Thank you, I stand corrected. 

You don’t have to stand corrected because your observation was spot on.  It doesn’t matter if the KJV is a “bad translation” and it’s not the worst English rendition.  Piney was wrong.  It is the Jehovah Witness version of the Bible that is the worst English Translation.  
 

As it pertains to the KJV, it is highly venerated by many groups of Protestant Christians and its problems are so huge it’s not even funny.  The original KJB was written in 1611 and it had 80 Bible Books.  The modern KJV has 66 books.  Ain’t that some ****?

[Guyver]

666 is supposed to be the devils number.  Just saying.  

[psyche101]

1 minute ago, Guyver said:

666 is supposed to be the devils number.  Just saying.  

It's not actually.

It's 616

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/616_(number)#:~:text=While 666 is called the,gives the number as 616.

[psyche101]

We used to have a member called 667 neighbour of the beast

Cracked me up 

[Will Due]

17 minutes ago, Hawken said:

over the centuries people have put their own spin on him.

 

This is certainly true. So the question is, given that something did actually happen, what part of the story did they spin? Usually when a story is spun, it only pertains to one aspect of it.

So would it have been something about him being "vengeful, demeaning, intolerant, and hypocritical"?

Or would it have been something more along the lines of him admonishing to "love your enemies"?

 

 

 

[Guyver]

12 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

It's not actually.

It's 616

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/616_(number)#:~:text=While 666 is called the,gives the number as 616.

Maybe the KJV mistranslated it?  I mean…think about life in the late 1500’s.  Anyway, Jesus said many controversial statements….like chopping off your hand or plucking out your eye if it cause you to sin because it is better to enter into life blind or maimed than be a sinner.  And, apparently, according to Jesus sin was things against the Laws of Moses….like not eating pork, not being able to work on Saturday, or giving a blood sacrifice for your sins.  Not to mention the part about eating my flesh and drinking my blood.

[psyche101]

5 minutes ago, Guyver said:

Maybe the KJV mistranslated it?  I mean…think about life in the late 1500’s.  Anyway, Jesus said many controversial statements….like chopping off your hand or plucking out your eye if it cause you to sin because it is better to enter into life blind or maimed than be a sinner.  And, apparently, according to Jesus sin was things against the Laws of Moses….like not eating pork, not being able to work on Saturday, or giving a blood sacrifice for your sins.  Not to mention the part about eating my flesh and drinking my blood.

 

All the way back to Nero I think. 

Jesus is often touted as the new kind god, but he stated he is not about the change his father's laws. 

Creates a lot of confusion. The convent doesn't actually make old laws redundant, but I've seen it interpreted as such often. 

Considering Jesus as several people defined as one character I find makes more sense than anything else. 

[Hawken]

49 minutes ago, Hawken said:

Seems that different Christian religions have put their own views on Jesus. JWs believe that Jesus and Michael the Arcangel are the same person.

And the Mormons believe Jesus came to the Americas after his resurrection and interacted with the natives. They believe that based on this verse.

John 10:16: “And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd.”  

To me this doesn't prove Jesus never existed. Only that over the centuries people have put their own spin on him.

 

 

There are books that were never entered into the original cannon called the Apocrypha. They tell a different Jesus.

While Protestants reject those books. Catholics have accepted some into their cannon.

What Are the Apocryphal Books and Do They Belong in the Bible? (christianity.com)

@Will Due sorry, I quoted myself. 

Edited May 18 by Hawken

[Guyver]

3 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

 

All the way back to Nero I think. 

Jesus is often touted as the new kind god, but he stated he is not about the change his father's laws. 

Creates a lot of confusion. The convent doesn't actually make old laws redundant, but I've seen it interpreted as such often. 

Considering Jesus as several people defined as one character I find makes more sense than anything else. 

What?  Nero is the Satan of Christians.

[psyche101]

2 hours ago, Guyver said:

What?  Nero is the Satan of Christians.

Yes, possibly depicting him

https://www.agapebiblestudy.com/charts/Gemetria and the Number of the Beast 666.htm

John warns us that to solve this puzzle takes shrewdness and cleverness! The Roman Emperor we know as Nero Caesar had two common spelling for his name in the first century. One form was Nero Kesar but the Hebrew spelling is Neron Kesar. This is important because some ancient MSS (handwritten manuscripts) instead of using the number 666 have the number 616. If you add up the letter values in Hebrew (that's why it takes shrewdness-most people did not know Hebrew) Neron Caesar (Neron Kaisar) adds up to 666. Neron Kaisar = Nrwn Q(K)sr in Hebrew which used no vowels, was the linguistically correct Hebrew form and is found in the Jewish Talmud, in the writings of the community at Qumran where the Dead Sea Scrolls were found, and other rabbinical writings. No Jew would ever have thought of Nero except as rsq nwrn (Hebrew read left to right). But Nero Caesar (rsq nwr), the other spelling (alternate spellings were very common), adds up to 616, which is exactly the variant reading in a few New Testament Revelation manuscripts for the number of the Beast.

[Rlyeh]

8 hours ago, Piney said:

I still think he's a good person inside.

Maybe past his fantasies of others suffering.