I am me Posted March 22, 2005 #51 Share Posted March 22, 2005 (edited) i think a lot of people assume that if you let people have guns, that they will just run around and start shooting everybody and everything in their path. no, none of us here would do that, and most people would not do that. it is the same thing with drugs, lot of you think that if drugs were legal, that everyone would run around and start using them, but that is not the case. same reasoning. killers kill. drug users use drugs. it doesn't matter if drugs or guns are illegal. if that is what they want to use, then they will use it. if they wish to use something else to meet their needs, then they will use that. a pillow or knife for a killer. some sort of home made concoction for the drug user. but since killing is illegal and using drugs is illegal, it won't matter if what they use to do the action is illegal or not because the action itself is illegal. i believe crime typically rises when guns become illegal. gun crime falls, but overall crime increases. a killer is a killer and will kill. it does not matter what he uses to kill. Edited March 22, 2005 by I am me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 22, 2005 #52 Share Posted March 22, 2005 I'm sorry, I'm just so p***ed off. I think Americans created this problem of violence and now they're just so shocked at what's happened. Just LOOK at what this thread is about -- several kids have died today!!! Metal detectors didn't do sh**, this kid just killed the guard and went right into the school. I'd really like for someone to show me how this massacre could have happened with a knife or a pillow. I really wouldn't be surprised if this was a legal, registered gun either. It's just SICK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Skeptic Eric Raven Posted March 22, 2005 #53 Share Posted March 22, 2005 He could have made an effective bomb with gas and other ingredients and killed many more. Guns are not the problem. Crazy people are. Criminals don't get there guns legally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I am me Posted March 22, 2005 #54 Share Posted March 22, 2005 (edited) I'm sorry, I'm just so p***ed off. I think Americans created this problem of violence and now they're just so shocked at what's happened. Just LOOK at what this thread is about -- several kids have died today!!! Metal detectors didn't do sh**, this kid just killed the guard and went right into the school. I'd really like for someone to show me how this massacre could have happened with a knife or a pillow. I really wouldn't be surprised if this was a legal, registered gun either. It's just SICK. 537022[/snapback] he could have killed his grandparents with a knife or a pillow i bet. maybe he wouldn't have gone to school to do his killings. maybe he would have figured something else out. we don't know because it didn't happen that way. just because one kid misused a gun doesn't mean that everyone else should lose their right to own one should it? it is just as easy, actually probably easier since cars are more readily available, to drive over somebody in the road. it has happened, and cars have been driven into a crowd before. maybe cars should be banned too? maybe airplane flights should be banned because the airplanes that crashed in to the WTC killed a lot more than this kid ever could with those guns. but ... airlines had security just like the school did. just a big, hmmm damn, what can we do? and really the answer is...i don't think there is much we can do. if people want to get something done such as a mass killing, they will figure out a way to get it done. especially if the action is an illegal one they are certainly fond of doing. Edited March 22, 2005 by I am me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seraphina Posted March 22, 2005 #55 Share Posted March 22, 2005 just because one kid misused a gun doesn't mean that everyone else should lose their right to own one should it? You know, this is exactly what I said to Wun in a PM....most Americans are far too in love with their guns to allow the needless and preventable deaths of children, which happens far, far too frequently as a direct result of guns being so readily available, to get in the way of their "right" to have a gun. Absolutely mental. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twpdyp Posted March 22, 2005 #56 Share Posted March 22, 2005 Seraphina Posted Today, 03:07 PM QUOTE Call it bizarre if you will, it is plane that you do not have a firm understanding of what makes Americans tick. You're right, I don't...which is exactly the problem. I simply do not understand how an intelligent person can look at all the damage being caused by guns circulating american society so freely, and yet so strongly advocate that nothing be done to control them. I think that's absolute madness, and there's nothing I can do that will enable me to understand that way of thinking. In this country, when handguns were banned, we did not have a resulting open season on anyone who didn't have a gun, where criminals were able to run around and shoot everyone and anyone they liked...yet you insist that, if measures were taken to remove guns, or at the very least limit the number of guns, on American streets, then that's what would happen to you. Most bizarre. How is that bizarre? Do you honestly think that if the Government calls for everyone to turn in their guns that the people who intend to commit crimes with their guns will comply with that order. If you believe that, then that is truly bizarre. Damage caused by guns you say, I do believe I am right when I say more people are killed in automobile accidents in this country in 1 year than by guns in 5 years. I think I have that stat correct. How come I don't hear you going on about automobile control like I hear you going on about gun control. You see owning guns is not only about protection it is about a hobby, I don't hunt but I target shoot extensivly. I enjoy my guns as a hobby, the protection aspect is just a bonus. Now I am all for much stricter punishment guidlines when it comes to violent crime and particulaly crimes involving a gun. But nothing good ever came from a total prohibition of anything. They tried to prohibit alcohol in the 1920's that didn't work, it only gave rise to organized crime. They are still currently trying to prohibit drugs, again not working only the drug lords are getting richer and the drugs keep coming. But if you educate the public about the dangers and how to safe guard yourself from these dangers then you will make real progress in making the world a safer place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 22, 2005 #57 Share Posted March 22, 2005 I'm just disgusted beyond words, for all those children to die, and not a single American can admit that there is a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle Posted March 22, 2005 #58 Share Posted March 22, 2005 How many of you know your great-grandparents? I knew my great-grandmother and do you know who they bought the family property from? Indians....that's right... it was a thousand acres in the middle of nowhere. My family built a school/church combo just for their kids and cousins and started a whole community in the wilderness. My point is, that we aren't so far removed from that. We are a relatively new county that had to settle new territory. Clear the land, hunt, and grow our own food. A lot of the US is still inhabited by wild animals. Not everybody lives in *the city* and it's still a necessity to have a gun. And even though I live in the city today I still have a gun because of my heritage... and because I moved into an improvished area of town to help clean it up and drive the gangs and drug dealers out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celumnaz Posted March 22, 2005 #59 Share Posted March 22, 2005 none of anyone's business *why* we want guns, although the reasons probably number in the hundreds for different people media driven hoplophobia for control freaks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seraphina Posted March 22, 2005 #60 Share Posted March 22, 2005 How is that bizarre? Do you honestly think that if the Government calls for everyone to turn in their guns that the people who intend to commit crimes with their guns will comply with that order. If you believe that, then that is truly bizarre. I say again. The UK banned handguns some time ago. We did not have the apocalypse scenario that you seem to believe would happen in the US. Damage caused by guns you say, I do believe I am right when I say more people are killed in automobile accidents in this country in 1 year than by guns in 5 years. I think I have that stat correct. How come I don't hear you going on about automobile control like I hear you going on about gun control. There are, in fact, many measures in place to control cars. There are many strict rules on how a car is to be used, who can use it, and we have police who are constantly watching each and every single person driving around to make sure those laws are followed through. You see owning guns is not only about protection it is about a hobby, I don't hunt but I target shoot extensivly. I enjoy my guns as a hobby I believe I said before that when a society starts looking at the most efficient and deadly weapon available to the common man as a recreational item, we're just inviting disaster. Considering a gun, a lethal weapon, in the same light you would a set of gold clubs is just so reckless that it doesn't even bear thinking about. But nothing good ever came from a total prohibition of anything. I point you once again in the direction of the UKs total ban on handguns. To date, we have not had another school shooting since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celumnaz Posted March 22, 2005 #61 Share Posted March 22, 2005 I'm just disgusted beyond words, for all those children to die, and not a single American can admit that there is a problem. 537045[/snapback] There IS a problem!! Why was this not happening like this 20-30 years ago when it was legal to have guns IN school?? That guy that blew up the school 50 years ago was an adult, used explosive, and had some kind of financial reason and was frustrated or something... wasn't guns. I agree with those that are saying the problem is with the society somewhere, and I point directly at the liberal educational experiments, and media driven "create a crisis to offer the solution" socialist agenda creating a "victim" society where people are not responsible for their actions and those in authority are powerless to do something for fear of "offending" some PC wacko liberal, or CPS takes your kids, or any number of things that are symptomatic of that agenda. Ok, that's going from specifics to generalizations... as long as I don't revert back to specifics I'm ok... so at this point... someone's going to say I'm blaming everything but the gun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle Posted March 22, 2005 #62 Share Posted March 22, 2005 Excuse me, I asked a question and if anyone can answer I'd be grateful...why did all the school shootings just start happening in the early ninties and not before? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twpdyp Posted March 22, 2005 #63 Share Posted March 22, 2005 Disinterested Posted Today, 03:26 PM I'm just disgusted beyond words, for all those children to die, and not a single American can admit that there is a problem. I will readily admit there is a problem. My argument is that the prohibition of guns is not the long term answer to that problem. Just like prohibition of automobiles will not solve the drunk driving problem, neither will the prohibition of alcohol. There are over 300 million people in the United States. Don't label all of us based on the actions of a very small minority of soft minded uncaring idiots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seraphina Posted March 22, 2005 #64 Share Posted March 22, 2005 why did all the school shootings just start happening in the early ninties and not before? Probably because it's only lately that the gun has been turned into a recreational item. The fact that modern Americans are so zealous to the point of insanity about keeping their guns is proof enough that attitudes and opinions of the gun have taken on almost religious undertones. Guns are simply no longer seen as a weapon, but as part of their way of life...which is exactly why things like this happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle Posted March 22, 2005 #65 Share Posted March 22, 2005 That's not it Sera, guns have always been recreational and they were a way of life when my family settled this land...nothings changed in that regard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellar Posted March 22, 2005 #66 Share Posted March 22, 2005 Ah, but let's all remember...there is no gun problem in the US. No, none at all, none whatsoever, and they'll shoot anyone who disagrees. No... If the US banned guns, the kid would still have baught the gun on the black market! Not only that, but banning guns would mean that all the other students wouldnt be able to pull out their guns and shoot this guy before he shot them, as they all did in this incident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurnSide Posted March 22, 2005 #67 Share Posted March 22, 2005 An honest question. What do you feel would have saved these childrens lives, if not denying the killers access to guns in the first place? I mean, no one here is saying that it's okay that these children died, which is the topic at hand, are they? That's not what they mean by defending the tools of murder that were used. So, what should have been done to prevent this from happening, and what should be done in the future to stop more of the nations children losing their lives in such an awful way, since getting rid of guns is out of the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seraphina Posted March 22, 2005 #68 Share Posted March 22, 2005 That's not it Sera, guns have always been recreational and they were a way of life when my family settled this land...nothings changed in that regard. You said yourself that your family needed guns as a functional item due to the environment in which they lived...not solely for recreation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Skeptic Eric Raven Posted March 22, 2005 #69 Share Posted March 22, 2005 (edited) . You don't want guns, don't have them. It is an important part of our constiution to bear arms. I don't own one, but I think I will go buy one because of this post. You know, exercise my rights. Edited March 22, 2005 by ericraven2003 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle Posted March 22, 2005 #70 Share Posted March 22, 2005 Burns, I honestly think if he wanted to kill a bunch of kids at school and couldn't get ahold of a gun he would've made a pipe bomb. And Sera, have you ever heard of a turkey shoot? They are contests to see who is the best shot. It has always been a recreation just like horse racing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celumnaz Posted March 22, 2005 #71 Share Posted March 22, 2005 (edited) Roy Rogers did some awesome things with guns. I hear Annie Oakly did some pretty amazing things too. Edit: don't own one myself... don't really have the need imo for myself... wich... at least I get to choose. Edited March 22, 2005 by Celumnaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurnSide Posted March 22, 2005 #72 Share Posted March 22, 2005 So that's it then? Kids die, such a shame, if they didn't have guns they would have killed them anyway so give them guns and make it easier. I don't think that is very civil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celumnaz Posted March 22, 2005 #73 Share Posted March 22, 2005 Oh... we have a "Give Kids Guns" program over there? Didn't know that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seraphina Posted March 22, 2005 #74 Share Posted March 22, 2005 So that's it then? Kids die, such a shame, if they didn't have guns they would have killed them anyway so give them guns and make it easier. That's exactly my arguement to...it just...disturbs me that gun lobbyists refuse to see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle Posted March 22, 2005 #75 Share Posted March 22, 2005 And I don't think you heard a word I said so I don't think you are being very civil. I never said such a shame that's it then... I will not go into this any farther with you Burns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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