F-16 to Ukraine means NATO involvement in conflict, says Russia

[Occult1]

Russia warns against F-16s for Ukraine, further NATO involvement in war

''Russia is warning the West of a “colossal risk” should nations supply F-16 fighter jets to Ukraine, suggesting that it could raise the question of NATO’s role in the war. 

President Biden on Friday told Group of Seven (G-7) leaders that the United States will support a joint effort to train Ukrainian pilots on F-16s, an effort expected to start soon outside Ukraine at sites in Europe. Kyiv has not, however, gotten public commitments from any country for delivery of the jets.

But several Russian officials have since said the move risks elevating tensions further between Western nations and Russia. ''

https://thehill.com/policy/defense/4015813-russia-warns-f16s-ukraine-nato/

Edited May 22 by Occult1

[jmccr8]

9 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

Russia warns against F-16s for Ukraine, further NATO involvement in war

''Russia is warning the West of a “colossal risk” should nations supply F-16 fighter jets to Ukraine, suggesting that it could raise the question of NATO’s role in the war. 

President Biden on Friday told Group of Seven (G-7) leaders that the United States will support a joint effort to train Ukrainian pilots on F-16s, an effort expected to start soon outside Ukraine at sites in Europe. Kyiv has not, however, gotten public commitments from any country for delivery of the jets.

But several Russian officials have since said the move risks elevating tensions further between Western nations and Russia. ''

https://thehill.com/policy/defense/4015813-russia-warns-f16s-ukraine-nato/

Hi Occult

Russia is scared they just had 2 of their best jets shot out of the sky. They are not doing well in this conflict. Stuff like this is hype for Russians to believe they are actually fighting with NATO to put a spin on their losses.

[Occult1]

7 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Occult

Russia is scared they just had 2 of their best jets shot out of the sky. They are not doing well in this conflict. Stuff like this is hype for Russians to believe they are actually fighting with NATO to put a spin on their losses.

Let's face it: foreign planes, that take off from foreign bases (likely Poland or another NATO country) to target Russian forces are likely to widen the war.

Ukraine has no capabilities to operate F-16s without extensive NATO involvement.

Edited May 22 by Occult1

[+and-then]

9 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

believe they are actually fighting with NATO

NATO/AMERICA is supplying advanced armaments, surveillance intel, top level assistance with war plans... the only thing missing has been NATO troops and if we see F-16s in the air in less than 6-12 months, even THAT little Rubicon will have been crossed.  "Contractors" flying those platforms is the logical next step.  All the Russians would need then is a shootdown and a captive or a body to parade before the cameras.

But hey, I'm sure Vladdy will meekly take his ball and go home after NATO spanks him in front of the world, right?  

[jmccr8]

4 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

Let's face it: foreign planes, that take off from foreign bases (likely Poland or another NATO country) to target Russian forces are likely to widen the war.

Ukraine has no capabilities to operate F-16s without extensive NATO involvement.

Hi Occult

Any planes the Ukraine gets will be delivered to them in the Ukraine and flown from there. Yes it is advanced systems used by NATO countries that are going to be supplied to the Ukraine as well as flight training and maintenance. NATO will still not be actively engaged with boots on the ground or usiing NATO countries to launch attacks from.

[+and-then]

2 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Occult

Any planes the Ukraine gets will be delivered to them in the Ukraine and flown from there. Yes it is advanced systems used by NATO countries that are going to be supplied to the Ukraine as well as flight training and maintenance. NATO will still not be actively engaged with boots on the ground or usiing NATO countries to launch attacks from.

Would you have any problem with western pilots being paid as contractors to fly the Falcons?  Better still, would you be okay with Russian pilots flying such aircraft for say, Mexico if Mexico was at war with the US?  Asking for a concerned friend  

[Occult1]

9 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Occult

Any planes the Ukraine gets will be delivered to them in the Ukraine and flown from there.

So..What is preventing Russia from sending a volley of hypersonic missiles in Ukraine to destroy potential F-16 airfields?

How Russia could spot Ukrainian F-16s before they even got off the ground, according to an air-warfare expert

https://www.businessinsider.com/russia-may-spot-ukrainian-bases-preparing-for-f16s-expert-says-2023-4

 

Makes no sense.

Edited May 23 by Occult1

[jmccr8]

1 hour ago, and-then said:

Would you have any problem with western pilots being paid as contractors to fly the Falcons?  Better still, would you be okay with Russian pilots flying such aircraft for say, Mexico if Mexico was at war with the US?  Asking for a concerned friend  

Hi And Then

Tell your concerned friend to step out of that bunker in the backwoods that he is hiding in that hypotheticals aren't real and that Russians won't be helping Mexico invade the US.

Rissians are having enough trouble fighting as it is and being a crybaby after invading a free nation to kidnap, rape and murder civilians, they can't sfford to pick new fights.

If your country was ever invaded I would root for you but don't have the expectation of you expressing the same for me or my country.

Ukrainian pilots will fly the jets not Americans or Nato members but can volunteer if they chose to like many others that already have. They do not take orders from their country of oorigin nor do they represent them.

[jmccr8]

2 hours ago, Occult1 said:

So..What is preventing Russia from sending a volley of hypersonic missiles in Ukraine to destroy potential F-16 airfields?

How Russia could spot Ukrainian F-16s before they even got off the ground, according to an air-warfare expert

https://www.businessinsider.com/russia-may-spot-ukrainian-bases-preparing-for-f16s-expert-says-2023-4

 

Makes no sense.

Hi Occult

Yes you have made it quite clear over the last year that you have trouble making sense of anything that doesn't work in Russia's favor.

[DarkHunter]

1 hour ago, Occult1 said:

So..What is preventing Russia from sending a volley of hypersonic missiles in Ukraine to destroy potential F-16 airfields?

Russian hypersonic weapons are made up of the Kinzhal, Zircon, and Avangard.

The Kinzhal can be intercepted by the patriot system as it has been shown.

The Zircon doesn't have enough range to reach western Ukraine unless the Russian navy fires the Zircon in a semi-ballistic missile arc, which would make it easily interceptable by quite a few AA systems, from off the coast of territory controlled by Ukraine.  

Then there is the Avangard.  The Avangard could work except for the small problem that they are extremely expensive and Russia has very few of them.  Russia has 8 ICBMs equipped with them so I have a feeling Russia might not want to use them to target airfields.

Even then targeting airfields tends to be a rather inefficient use of weapon systems as it generally only knocks them out for a few hours to maybe a day at absolute best.  It's only really effective if one can continously keep hitting the airfield.

[jmccr8]

 

[Occult1]

19 minutes ago, DarkHunter said:

 

The Kinzhal can be intercepted by the patriot system as it has been shown.

I don't believe so. I haven't seen enough evidence.

Putin Warned Patriot Air Defences Wouldn’t Survive Long in Ukraine: A Hypersonic Missile Just Destroyed Half the Network Within a Month

https://militarywatchmagazine.com/article/putin-patriot-kinzhal-destroyed-onemonth

[Occult1]

33 minutes ago, DarkHunter said:

Even then targeting airfields tends to be a rather inefficient use of weapon systems as it generally only knocks them out for a few hours to maybe a day at absolute best.  It's only really effective if one can continously keep hitting the airfield.

You do realize that a whole fleet of F-16s would be like sitting ducks inside Ukraine? Russia can strike anywhere inside the country.

The only safe way to provide F-16s to Ukraine would be to fly them from a NATO country, maybe Poland or Romania. But then that means NATO wants to escalate the war.

[DarkHunter]

8 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

I don't believe so. I haven't seen enough evidence.

Putin Warned Patriot Air Defences Wouldn’t Survive Long in Ukraine: A Hypersonic Missile Just Destroyed Half the Network Within a Month

https://militarywatchmagazine.com/article/putin-patriot-kinzhal-destroyed-onemonth

There are pictures of the destroyed Kinzhal, but you do have a tendency to only believe, and push, Russian propaganda and misinformation.

It is interesting you believe the Russian story of destroying a patriot, which Russia has provided no proof of, but doubt a patriot shooting down a Kinzhal despite their being picture evidence of it.

The mental gymnastics you go through to promote Russia and deny every single one of their failures is truly amazing.

[DarkHunter]

Just now, Occult1 said:

You do realize that a whole fleet of F-16s would be like sitting ducks inside Ukraine? Russia can strike anywhere inside the country.

The only safe way to provide F-16s to Ukraine would be to fly them from a NATO country, maybe Poland or Romania. But then that means NATO wants to escalate the war.

If Russia can strike anywhere inside Ukraine then why hasnt Russia killed Zelensky yet with a missile strike or why hasnt Russia hit western weapon shipments in western Ukraine yet.  You push some insane, ridiculous, and outright stupid Russian propaganda but the whole Russia can strike anywhere in Ukraine is by far one of your stupidest Russian propaganda you have tried pushing.

Even then the F-16s would probably be dispersed to multiple airfields throughout Ukraine.

[Occult1]

16 minutes ago, DarkHunter said:

You push some insane, ridiculous, and outright stupid Russian propaganda but the whole Russia can strike anywhere in Ukraine is by far one of your stupidest Russian propaganda you have tried pushing.

Russian has launched waves of missile strikes across Ukraine since the start of the war. Kyiv, Lviv, Odessa, Kharkiv, Kherson, Zaporizhzhia etc.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60506682

Quote

Even then the F-16s would probably be dispersed to multiple airfields throughout Ukraine.

I don't believe it would be too hard to detect where those F-16s are taking off and where the suitable airfields (requiring high maintenance) are located.

Edited May 23 by Occult1

[DarkHunter]

9 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

Russian has launched waves of missile strikes across Ukraine since the start of the war. Kyiv, Lviv, Odessa, Kharkiv, Kherson, Zaporizhzhia etc.

Yet not a single western aid shipment targeted and destroyed or single Ukranian head of state killed.  Interesting you dont mention how many Russian missiles are now being intercepted.

10 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

I don't believe it would be too hard to detect where those F-16s are taking off and where the suitable airfields (requiring high maintenance) are located.

I really dont care what you believe, you have shown repeatedly you only accept Russian propaganda and misinformation as fact.  

The F-16 is high maintenance, the airfield just needs to be paved for the F-16 to be able to take off or land.  Taiwan has F-16s take off and land on highways.

[Buzz_Light_Year]

53 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

Russia can strike anywhere inside the country.

Yeah that's why Russia is fighting a trench warfare.

[Alchopwn]

I think Russia is going to lose the war without F16s being in the field.  Russians should view their introduction as a merciful thing that will make sure this mindless war of Russian aggression will not be prolonged by Putin.

[Setton]

So just like NATO providing intelligence would be a red line.

No, sorry, providing equipment is the red line.

Actually, make that lethal aid. 

Ok lethal aid is fine but not tanks.

On second thought, tanks are fine but no missile systems.

Well just HIMARs then but no long range missiles.

Except storm shadow missiles obviously.

But F-16s, this is the REAL red line. Honest.

[spartan max2]

Red line crossed number 50

[Jon the frog]

13 hours ago, Occult1 said:

You do realize that a whole fleet of F-16s would be like sitting ducks inside Ukraine? Russia can strike anywhere inside the country.

The only safe way to provide F-16s to Ukraine would be to fly them from a NATO country, maybe Poland or Romania. But then that means NATO wants to escalate the war.

Only thing working for Ukraine is going low ground, tossing a bomb or stomshadow while pulling and getting back to base low ground...During that small laps of time they got gunned down.

Only things working for Russia is launching glide bomb from outside Ukraine and being able to strike the first 50 km or so behind the front...and even then they loss planes.

Anything flying over Ukraine is sitting duck... only planes able to go strike over Ukraine are going low ground and even them are getting destroyed by shoulder fired missiles.Russian and Ukrainian alikes.

Ukraine is more or less a no fly zone for Russia and Ukraine fighters...

F-16 would replenish Ukraine airforces for a while but will not change the facts that anything in the air will be going in flame sooner than later.

Edited May 23 by Jon the frog

[Alchopwn]

On 5/23/2023 at 12:51 PM, Occult1 said:

You do realize that a whole fleet of F-16s would be like sitting ducks inside Ukraine? Russia can strike anywhere inside the country.

The only safe way to provide F-16s to Ukraine would be to fly them from a NATO country, maybe Poland or Romania. But then that means NATO wants to escalate the war.

Thanks to the upgraded Patriot System that is no longer the case.

[Alchopwn]

On 5/23/2023 at 9:25 AM, Occult1 said:

'Russia is warning the West of a “colossal risk” should nations supply F-16 fighter jets to Ukraine, suggesting that it could raise the question of NATO’s role in the war. 

LOL, Russian propaganda has been shrieking that the Russian federation has been fighting the whole of NATO in the field since last September.  Honestly, who gives a damn what Russia thinks anymore?  They started the war and have been p@in@l shrieking ever since.

[Unusual Tournament]

On 5/23/2023 at 9:45 AM, Occult1 said:

Let's face it: foreign planes, that take off from foreign bases (likely Poland or another NATO country) to target Russian forces are likely to widen the war.

Ukraine has no capabilities to operate F-16s without extensive NATO involvement.

Short of using nuclear weapons in Ukraine I can’t see Russian threats as serious. I think Biden wants this war over before the presidential elections. If the Republicans come to office they will de-fund the war and leave Ukraine at the mercy of Russia