South Carolina governor signs six-week abortion ban

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

11 hours ago, darkmoonlady said:

I'd believe that if you didn't imply a lot of negative stuff about women seeking abortion. You post it. You don't fool anyone.

You see it, it doesn’t mean it’s true. 

[darkmoonlady]

5 hours ago, Edumakated said:

The vast majority of abortions have nothing to do with mothers health, infant disorders/disabilities, or incest/rape.  Most abortions are out of of convenience because birth control was not used.

For the record, I think abortion should be allowed in those rare circumstances above.  However, I have a serious issue with aborting healthy babies after about 16 weeks. 

Abortion should be legal and rare.  Unfortunately, no one can claim it is rare.

And the majority of abortions past 16 weeks ARE because of medical issues. The 20 week scan is when 90% of abnormalities are found. So what that does is force women to carry non viable fetuses to term because a few people find abortions past an arbitrary week unpalatable. I find women forced to birth dead babies, women forced to bleed out before the heartbeat of a fetus is gone unacceptable. Why don't you? Because its already happening. 

[darkmoonlady]

26 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

You see it, it doesn’t mean it’s true. 

I'm not the only one. And in the end certain posters know what they say is inflammatory because you like to high five each other for it as a badge of honor. Yeah nothing like belittling women for attention and likes. Good for you. Your mom must be proud. 

Edited May 26, 2023 by darkmoonlady

[Golden Duck]

16 minutes ago, darkmoonlady said:

And the majority of abortions past 16 weeks ARE because of medical issues. The 20 week scan is when 90% of abnormalities are found. So what that does is force women to carry non viable fetuses to term because a few people find abortions past an arbitrary week unpalatable. I find women forced to birth dead babies, women forced to bleed out before the heartbeat of a fetus is gone unacceptable. Why don't you? Because its already happening. 

You're building a strawman

Quote

The law includes exceptions to save the patient’s life and for fatal fetal anomalies, as well as limited exceptions up to 12 weeks for victims of rape and incest, with doctor reporting requirements to local law enforcement. It also contains an amendment added by the House that would require a “biological father” to pay child support from the point of conception.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/26/politics/south-carolina-abortion-law/index.html

[darkmoonlady]

43 minutes ago, Golden Duck said:

You're building a strawman

https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/26/politics/south-carolina-abortion-law/index.html

For now, that hasn't been the case in other states. And given time and enough votes that is where this is headed in South Carolina. 

[darkmoonlady]

45 minutes ago, Golden Duck said:

You're building a strawman

https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/26/politics/south-carolina-abortion-law/index.html

The South Carolina Prenatal Equal Protection Act of 2023 was introduced in the House in January. Rep. Rob Harris of Spartanburg County is the lead sponsor on the bill which, if passed, would enact penalties for women who get abortions that range from 30 years in prison to the death sentence.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

1 hour ago, darkmoonlady said:

I'm not the only one. And in the end certain posters know what they say is inflammatory because you like to high five each other for it as a badge of honor. Yeah nothing like belittling women for attention and likes. Good for you. Your mom must be proud. 

You have a truly amazing gift for reading things that aren’t there. 

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

56 minutes ago, darkmoonlady said:

The South Carolina Prenatal Equal Protection Act of 2023 was introduced in the House in January. Rep. Rob Harris of Spartanburg County is the lead sponsor on the bill which, if passed, would enact penalties for women who get abortions that range from 30 years in prison to the death sentence.

Equal protection… only prosecutes women. 
typical. 

[Edumakated]

1 hour ago, darkmoonlady said:

And the majority of abortions past 16 weeks ARE because of medical issues. The 20 week scan is when 90% of abnormalities are found. So what that does is force women to carry non viable fetuses to term because a few people find abortions past an arbitrary week unpalatable. I find women forced to birth dead babies, women forced to bleed out before the heartbeat of a fetus is gone unacceptable. Why don't you? Because its already happening. 

93% of abortions are in first 13 weeks.  Of the abortions that occur later, half are still convenience oriented according to some studies I've found.  

The data is real murky.  While it is true that some things like down's syndrome aren't identified till later in pregnancy, it still seems like late term abortions are largely done out of convenience.  For example, one study listed a bunch of the reasons for delayed abortions in light of the fact that 90%+ occur in first trimester.

Abortions Later in Pregnancy | KFF

Most of the reasons are for things like finances and didn't know any better.  

The take away for me is that later term abortions are already pretty rare so I see no need to keep them legal outside of the rare incidences of incest, rape, and documented health of mother.

My brother & sister in law adopted a beautiful little girl earlier this year.  The mother was basically a "hood rat" and already had like 4 kids before and slipped up and got pregnant again.  She knew she was in no position to raise a 5th child.  Our family is thankful she didn't take the easy way out though.

[darkmoonlady]

Just now, Edumakated said:

93% of abortions are in first 13 weeks.  Of the abortions that occur later, half are still convenience oriented according to some studies I've found.  

The data is real murky.  While it is true that some things like down's syndrome aren't identified till later in pregnancy, it still seems like late term abortions are largely done out of convenience.  For example, one study listed a bunch of the reasons for delayed abortions in light of the fact that 90%+ occur in first trimester.

Abortions Later in Pregnancy | KFF

Most of the reasons are for things like finances and didn't know any better.  

The take away for me is that later term abortions are already pretty rare so I see no need to keep them legal outside of the rare incidences of incest, rape, and documented health of mother.

My brother & sister in law adopted a beautiful little girl earlier this year.  The mother was basically a "hood rat" and already had like 4 kids before and slipped up and got pregnant again.  She knew she was in no position to raise a 5th child.  Our family is thankful she didn't take the easy way out though.

No later abortions are not done mostly for convenience. None of the statistics back that up. Its women who want their baby and something has gone wrong.. adoption is wonderful, however we have thousands and thousands of kids waiting in foster care now who don't have families and aren't being adopted now. And adoption isn't a perfect miracle every time either. Sometimes it is and sometimes not. No one likes abortion but it is a reality that women have agency over their bodies. Are you willing to adopt a few kids yourself? Most anti abortion folks haven't adopted either. They want to demand control over women and then do nothing to help those babies once they are here. 

[darkmoonlady]

8 minutes ago, Edumakated said:

93% of abortions are in first 13 weeks.  Of the abortions that occur later, half are still convenience oriented according to some studies I've found.  

The data is real murky.  While it is true that some things like down's syndrome aren't identified till later in pregnancy, it still seems like late term abortions are largely done out of convenience.  For example, one study listed a bunch of the reasons for delayed abortions in light of the fact that 90%+ occur in first trimester.

Abortions Later in Pregnancy | KFF

Most of the reasons are for things like finances and didn't know any better.  

The take away for me is that later term abortions are already pretty rare so I see no need to keep them legal outside of the rare incidences of incest, rape, and documented health of mother.

My brother & sister in law adopted a beautiful little girl earlier this year.  The mother was basically a "hood rat" and already had like 4 kids before and slipped up and got pregnant again.  She knew she was in no position to raise a 5th child.  Our family is thankful she didn't take the easy way out though.

The website you linked to left out info

That later abortions are less than 1% of total abortion and cost a lot of money and you have to travel to seek them out as only a few clinics perform them. That is the opposite of convenience. Insurance doesn't cover it and it can cost 20,000 up front. Women aren't having abortions past 24 weeks because they feel like they don't want to be pregnant anymore. They are doing it because they have to, it's sometimes their chance at being able to have a healthy baby later when the one they are carrying isn't viable and going through til labor is dangerous. Do you want women forced to go through a stillbirth??

[Occupational Hubris]

8 hours ago, Edumakated said:

The vast majority of abortions have nothing to do with mothers health, infant disorders/disabilities, or incest/rape.  Most abortions are out of of convenience because birth control was not used.

 

So ****ing what? 

[+DieChecker]

23 hours ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

You have a truly amazing gift for reading things that aren’t there. 

And then accusing the conservatives of supporting it.

 

[darkmoonlady]

52 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

And then accusing the conservatives of supporting it.

 

Of supporting what? It's their legislation and their want to police women in their reproductive choices and then the conservatives go on tv and say it to the camera. 

[+Desertrat56]

On 5/25/2023 at 10:10 PM, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

Here’s a thought - takes two people to make a baby, so with the exception of the obvious (rape) reason, let’s have the potential human’s father have a voice in their fate. Let’s make THAT a thing. Fair’s fair. 

There are very rare occassions where the father doesn't get a say.   You are pretending like women just decide to get an abortion and do it like it is no big deal.  It is a big deal and often (Really Often) the decision is based on whether there is a support system in place for the woman and the child, that support system requires the "father" to be in the conversation, and when that isn't happening and the woman has no family support the choices are limited.   

P.S.  I know two women who did not want an abortion but their husband insisted.  And one of those happened in the 50's when abortions were illegal.

Edited May 28, 2023 by Desertrat56

[preacherman76]

On 5/26/2023 at 2:37 AM, Raptor Witness said:

 Not exactly….

You have to think about the vile political machine that creates the small field of candidates. Who chooses them? Average working Americans? Absolutely not.

A relative handful of rich oligarchs are choosing the political candidates, and funding their primary runs, long before The People choose.

Our entire corrupted system of selecting candidates is about to fall into a pit of Hell, far worse than the recent pandemic unleashed. There will be no refuge from this storm, which will even be felt, inside the womb.

Death to America is here, and the angels who bring it, will not relent, until parts of America are destroyed and desolate.

South Carolina will be punished most severely, not for her stand on abortion, per se, but for hosting the Savanna River Nuclear facility.

Woe to Henry McMaster, Woe to South Carolina, Woe to her unrepentant people. You will be swept away, when the Lord of the Earth comes down to visit, and consumes you with fire.

Make it so #1 … an example for the others.

I agree it looks like we are heading towards judgement. On that day it will not be because SC stopped allowing babies to be ripped from their mother’s womb 

[preacherman76]

1 hour ago, Desertrat56 said:

There are very rare occassions where the father doesn't get a say.   You are pretending like women just decide to get an abortion and do it like it is no big deal.  It is a big deal and often (Really Often) the decision is based on whether there is a support system in place for the woman and the child, that support system requires the "father" to be in the conversation, and when that isn't happening and the woman has no family support the choices are limited.   

P.S.  I know two women who did not want an abortion but their husband insisted.  And one of those happened in the 50's when abortions were illegal.

Not saying I don’t believe you, but could you provide a link to the program that requires the father to be part of any conversation when it comes to such a decision?

Ive never heard of this. 

[Doug1066]

On 5/26/2023 at 2:54 PM, DieChecker said:

How many 12 year olds get pregnant? Are you fixing an issue that doesn't statistically exist to make a political point?

No.  A teenager who already has a wife is less likely to stray, especially if the wife is being raised as part of his family.

But if we're looking for ridiculous solutions to barely-existent problems, this is less ridiculous than some I've seen on UM.

Doug

[+OverSword]

On 5/28/2023 at 6:59 AM, Desertrat56 said:

There are very rare occassions where the father doesn't get a say.   You are pretending like women just decide to get an abortion and do it like it is no big deal.  It is a big deal and often (Really Often) the decision is based on whether there is a support system in place for the woman and the child, that support system requires the "father" to be in the conversation, and when that isn't happening and the woman has no family support the choices are limited.   

P.S.  I know two women who did not want an abortion but their husband insisted.  And one of those happened in the 50's when abortions were illegal.

Got proof for that statement?  My personal experience was I was informed and asked to reimburse after the fact, and that was with a person I was with for over a year at the time.

[+Desertrat56]

On 5/30/2023 at 10:04 AM, OverSword said:

Got proof for that statement?  My personal experience was I was informed and asked to reimburse after the fact, and that was with a person I was with for over a year at the time.

So you have one example.   That is not enough for you to refute any perspective from women, and I think if you took a poll you would find that person you mention was an exception, not the rule.   Even so, you don't know what was going through her mind, it could have been that in her perception she felt unable to raise a child and did not want to be saddled with you for the rest of her life for some transient act or she could have been a rare woman who just didn't want to be bothered.   Most women do not take abortion lightly, and often the women who are against abortion are against it due to guilt of something they did or religious beliefs that cause them to think they have no rights.   Others are able to be more philosophical and accept that they made a choice and they have no right to take that choice from anyone else, no matter how painful life is afterwards.     

Edited May 31, 2023 by Desertrat56

[+OverSword]

13 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

So you have one example.   That is not enough for you to refute any perspective from women, and I think if you took a poll you would find that person you mention was an exception, not the rule.   Even so, you don't know what was going through her mind, it could have been that in her perception she felt unable to raise a child and did not want to be saddled with you for the rest of her life for some transient act or she could have been a rare woman who just didn't want to be bothered.   Most women do not take abortion lightly, and often the women who are against abortion are against it due to guilt of something they did.   Others are able to be more philosophical and accept that they made a choice and they have no right to take that choice from anyone else, no matter how painful life is afterwards.     

And yet you have no proof just your opinion and your experience just like me.  Factually about half of women that get abortions have multiple so some don't take it seriously enough IMO.

[+Desertrat56]

25 minutes ago, OverSword said:

And yet you have no proof just your opinion and your experience just like me.  Factually about half of women that get abortions have multiple so some don't take it seriously enough IMO.

Neither do you, we are both stating our opinions based on our experience.  Yours is a lot more limited than mine.

[+OverSword]

17 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

Neither do you, we are both stating our opinions based on our experience.  Yours is a lot more limited than mine.

You stated:

Quote

There are very rare occassions where the father doesn't get a say

Given the number of women that have multiple abortions, which is about half of the women annually,  I say those women are misusing abortion as a substitute for being responsible so have no reason to believe they discuss it with the sperm donor.  You seem to believe that the man is usually part of the discussion, I believe the man is part of the discussion about half the time and the numbers seem to back my assumption.

[+Desertrat56]

23 minutes ago, OverSword said:

You stated:

Given the number of women that have multiple abortions, which is about half of the women annually,  I say those women are misusing abortion as a substitute for being responsible so have no reason to believe they discuss it with the sperm donor.  You seem to believe that the man is usually part of the discussion, I believe the man is part of the discussion about half the time and the numbers seem to back my assumption.

Like you said, where's the proof of that?   Any woman who has multiple abortions needs psycological help.   Not to mention, who is paying for a woman to have multiple abortions?   They are not cheap, because medical insurance will rarely pay for it.  They  may pay for one if it is medically warranted and signed off on by a doctor, but they will never pay for one woman to have multiple abortions willy nilly, and you don't even understand what that does to a woman's body.   So, give  it up and accept that you have no idea what you are talking about.

[spartan max2]

Just now, Desertrat56 said:

They are not cheap, because medical insurance will rarely pay for it

That's surprising to me.

I'd assume from a cost savings view point that paying for an abortion would be cheaper than paying for a pregnancy and birth