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Bible banned in some US schools


pellinore

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A parent angered by a spate of book bans across the US has taken revenge, of sorts - by getting the Bible banned from some of Utah's schools.

The Davis School District, which has nearly 74,000 children, has largely removed the book from circulation but has kept it in high school libraries.

In a copy of the parent's complaint seen by NBC News, they said their effort to ban the Bible was a protest against a 2022 state law that made it easier to remove "pornographic or indecent" content from schools.

They said: "I thank the Utah Legislature and Utah Parents United (a conservative activist group backing the law) for making this bad faith process so much easier and way more efficient".

"Now we can all ban books and you don't even need to read them or be accurate about it.

"Heck, you don't even need to see the book!"

Utah parent gets the Bible banned from some of US state's schools - and the reason might surprise you | US News | Sky News

Edited by pellinore
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It sounds like the book was only available in some high schools.  So be it.  Studying the bible is not something critical to education within the school system.  That educational effort should take place at home and or in church.  If that's the price for removing actual degeneracy from school libraries then the price is worth it.

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29 minutes ago, and-then said:

It sounds like the book was only available in some high schools.  So be it.  Studying the bible is not something critical to education within the school system.  That educational effort should take place at home and or in church.  If that's the price for removing actual degeneracy from school libraries then the price is worth it.

If the Bible was written today, instead of hundreds of years ago, I'm sure it would be banned everywhere.

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1 hour ago, and-then said:

Studying the bible is not something critical to education within the school system

maybe in the near future schools will feel the need to teach children about UAP's -- oh joy

BS comes in many forms :yes:

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So is this removed from elementary schools? The article specifies that is still largely available in high school lending sections,  so the implication to me is that the ban only applies to primary schools.

Honestly, high school appears fair.  The Bible isn't really written for 7 year olds,  they'd be much better off reading Sunday School stories and get introduced to the adult aspects of the bible when... well, when they're not children!

Analogy- When I was 8 years old,  my parents bought me a book on World War II. I loved the pictures of the tanks and planes. I loved it so much it inspired me to write a book.  It wasn't a very good book (presumably) but it was an alternative history story in which for reasons unknown WWII never ended,  and people were driving tanks and planes from 1930s and 40s society in the 1980s.

But the thing is,  this book my parents got me was age appropriate! It didn't include graphic depictions of Auschwitz or even any mention of the violence and death at concentration camps (none that I can recall,  at least). It was a book I'd proudly put on a primary school bookshelf.  That doesn't mean all WWII material is appropriate for primary school bookshelves, however!

High School seems a reasonable age to put holy texts (any religion) in their hands if they want to learn them!

 

Edited by Paranoid Android
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2 minutes ago, Paranoid Android said:

So is this removed from elementary schools? The article specifies that is still largely available in high school lending sections,  so the implication to me is that the ban only applies to primary schools.

Honestly, high school appears fair.  The Bible isn't really written for 7 year olds,  they'd be much better off reading Sunday School stories and get introduced to the adult aspects of the bible when... well, when they're adults.

Analogy- When I was 8 years old,  my parents bought me a book on World War II. I loved the pictures of the tanks and planes. I loved it so much it inspired me to write a book.  It wasn't a very good book (presumably) but it was an alternative history story in which for reasons unknown WWII never ended,  and people were driving tanks and planes from 1930s and 40s society in the 1980s.

But the thing is,  this book my parents got me was age appropriate! It didn't include graphic depictions of Auschwitz or even any mention of the violence and death at concentration camps (none that I can recall,  at least). It was a book I'd proudly put on a primary school bookshelf.  That doesn't mean all WWII material is appropriate for primary school bookshelves, however!

High School seems a reasonable age to put holy texts (any religion) in their hands if they want to learn them!

 

Carry this to its inevitable conclusion and every book on every religion will wind up being removed as well. Funny thing about letting the Genie out of its bottle...

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3 minutes ago, Paranoid Android said:

The Bible isn't really written for 7 year olds

it was probably written by 10 year olds for a laugh

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10 minutes ago, Dejarma said:

it was probably written by 10 year olds for a laugh

I know you're just taking the mickey,  but I'm going to disagree with you,  strongly.  I'm not a Christian anymore,  but the bible is still a very big book with very complex musings on the nature of existence.  

There's a Jewish member who used to hang out here who teaches literatures at university,  and one of his set texts each semester was the Book of Job,  which is considered to be a beautiful example of Hebrew poetry. Even if you ascribe zero historical value (as, whether you believe Job was a real person,  and most historians don't) to the text it is an amazing example of poetry and insight into Hebrew beliefs and values. 

And that's just one book.  You may not believe the bible (as I don't), but that doesn't make it a childish text by any means! 

Edited by Paranoid Android
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The missing key to this is that this is Utah. Joseph Smith's words mean more than the bible. The Bible is like the prequel to the Book of Mormon and so banning it doesn't mean a lot. 

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22 minutes ago, Paranoid Android said:

I know you're just taking the mickey,  but I'm going to disagree with you,  strongly.  I'm not a Christian anymore,  but the bible is still a very big book with very complex musings on the nature of existence.  

There's a Jewish member who used to hang out here who teaches literatures at university,  and one of his set texts each semester was the Book of Job,  which is considered to be a beautiful example of Hebrew poetry. Even if you ascribe zero historical value (as, whether you believe Job was a real person,  and most historians don't) to the text it is an amazing example of poetry and insight into Hebrew beliefs and values. 

And that's just one book.  You may not believe the bible (as I don't), but that doesn't make it a childish text by any means! 

Agreed it has historical value, and some good poetry, and some brilliant one liners (Jesus wept! for example).  It should be studied alongside the Koran, the Book of Mormon, and whatever text the Scientologists use (and perhaps with an explanation of the Cargo Cult) with other works of fiction.

 

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Just now, darkmoonlady said:

The missing key to this is that this is Utah. Joseph Smith's words mean more than the bible. The Bible is like the prequel to the Book of Mormon and so banning it doesn't mean a lot. 

What? His words have meaning?

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3 hours ago, and-then said:

It sounds like the book was only available in some high schools.  So be it.  Studying the bible is not something critical to education within the school system.  That educational effort should take place at home and or in church.  If that's the price for removing actual degeneracy from school libraries then the price is worth it.

OHH WHAT BRAVE NEW WORLD THAT HAS SUCH CHRISTIANS IN IT!!! 
 

 



Teaching people about the Bible, the teachings in it, the history behind it, the philosophy it contains and how it still impacts us today is valuable. There is a value to teaching 7 year olds as much as there is in teaching it to 17 year olds - as long as the content and the curriculum suit the audience. 

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5 hours ago, pellinore said:

A parent angered by a spate of book bans across the US has taken revenge, of sorts - by getting the Bible banned from some of Utah's schools.

 

Good on them!

At the very least the Bible should be re-written to remove all the violence, misogynism and other totally inappropriate behaviour.  And then relegated to the fiction section alongside Harry Potter and other books about magicians.

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23 minutes ago, Essan said:

Good on them!

At the very least the Bible should be re-written to remove all the violence, misogynism and other totally inappropriate behaviour.  And then relegated to the fiction section alongside Harry Potter and other books about magicians.

And you’d have three genealogies and a gag about fish. 

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6 hours ago, and-then said:

If that's the price for removing actual degeneracy from school libraries then the price is worth it.

Like the Bible.

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The irony is that the bible is running afoul of the new laws conservatives have put in place to shield children from sexual references and violence.  Stuff like Lot and his daughters and the killing of first borns.

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11 hours ago, pellinore said:

A parent angered by a spate of book bans across the US has taken revenge, of sorts - by getting the Bible banned from some of Utah's schools.

Utah parent gets the Bible banned from some of US state's schools - and the reason might surprise you | US News | Sky News

Hey, I think we all know there is some seriously violent pornography in the Bible; the Levite and His Concubine is a truly disgusting story.

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We as parents have a responsibility to teach our children how to live and be successful in the best way we can.   So we  take an interest in what our children are consuming and guide that in their early years.  Seems reasonable and could be championed under the banners of personal responsibility, inalienable rights, and freedom.

When we as parents decide what is good for other people's children and what they can have access to, is that freedom or authoritarianism?

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Quote Biden: 'our nation's children are all our children' and gets roasted.

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2 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

We as parents have a responsibility to teach our children how to live and be successful in the best way we can.   So we  take an interest in what our children are consuming and guide that in their early years.  Seems reasonable and could be championed under the banners of personal responsibility, inalienable rights, and freedom.

When we as parents decide what is good for other people's children and what they can have access to, is that freedom or authoritarianism?

That's the conundrum arising from one side or faction co-opting schools as vehicles for social indoctrination. Inevitably, everyone wants to play. 

If we as parents are not the ones who decide what our own children can have access to, who will and why should we trust them?

Edited by Hammerclaw
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1 hour ago, Hammerclaw said:

That's the conundrum arising from one side or faction co-opting schools as vehicles for social indoctrination. Inevitably, everyone wants to play. 

If we as parents are not the ones who decide what our own children can have access to, who will and why should we trust them?

Good point, but isn't that what schools have always been?  Say the pledge, learn to be a good citizen and what that entails; like civics classes and possibly military service.  That would be the social indoctrination I grew up with.   It seemed normal to me.

Then there is the structure.  First bell rings, get to work, don't be tardy. Next bell rings take a break, eat a cookie.  Bell rings again, back to work.  Bell rings, eat lunch. Bell rings again back to work.  Bell rings again go home.  Great preparation for a good factory worker too..

 

 

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1 hour ago, Tatetopa said:

Good point, but isn't that what schools have always been?  Say the pledge, learn to be a good citizen and what that entails; like civics classes and possibly military service.  That would be the social indoctrination I grew up with.   It seemed normal to me.

Then there is the structure.  First bell rings, get to work, don't be tardy. Next bell rings take a break, eat a cookie.  Bell rings again, back to work.  Bell rings, eat lunch. Bell rings again back to work.  Bell rings again go home.  Great preparation for a good factory worker too..

 

 

You didn't answer the question, so let me elaborate. No one would dispute the necessity to teach discipline, respect for legal authority, nor a strong work ethic. The question is who teaches the abstract concepts such the definition of gender, gender roles, pronouns, spiritual/religious ethos, basic indoctrination of the biological aspects of male and female, traditional versus progressive interpretations and so on. Should the parent maintain their moral authority over their children, or should they abrogate that responsibility to the State, the School board or some other group? If they decline to do so, should such entities have the right and authority to usurp their prerogatives? Who should they trust to instill in their children the values they hold dear; themselves or others?

Edited by Hammerclaw
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18 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

Carry this to its inevitable conclusion and every book on every religion will wind up being removed as well. Funny thing about letting the Genie out of its bottle...

It should.  The Quran, the sacred texts of Buddism, Hiduism and others should all go if the bible goes.

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4 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

If we as parents are not the ones who decide what our own children can have access to, who will and why should we trust them?

Parents have the right to decide what their own children are exposed to.  

Parents do not have the right to decide  what other parent's children are exposed to.

Government set up public schools to promote the interests of the nation, they also have a stake in curriculum. Public schools were not set up to be convenient babysitters but to provide citizens capable of maintaining a democracy generation to generation. With policies like integration, the government thinks they have an overriding  interest in public school subjects and available materials. I can't imagine irate parents at a school board meeting being successful in halting integration. 

If, as is the case for many parents with unique views, they can select private schools or home schooling to have near total control over their children's education, even if it does defy state  policies. 

 

 

 

Edited by Tatetopa
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