NATO Weapons Used In Attack Inside Russia

[Occult1]

Use of NATO arms for attack in Russia raises doubts about Kyiv’s controls

''The Russian fighters aligned against Moscow who launched a cross-border raid from Ukraine into the Belgorod region of Russia last week used at least four tactical vehicles originally given to Ukraine by the United States and Poland, U.S. officials said, raising questions about the unintended use of NATO-provided equipment and Kyiv’s commitments to secure materiel supplied by its supporters.

Three of the Mine-Resistant Ambush Protected vehicles, also known as MRAPs, taken into Russia by the fighters were provided by the United States and the fourth was from Poland, according to people familiar with the U.S. intelligence finding, which has not previously been reported. Those people spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss the sensitive issue.''

Source:

Washington Post: https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/06/03/nato-weapons-russia/

https://archive.is/zCl1I (No paywall)

Edited June 4 by Occult1

[+and-then]

IF this report is true then hopefully Zelenskyy will publicly disavow it and be shown to hold the perps responsible.  Th lines in this conflict just keep becoming more blurred.  What happens next?  Do we suddenly begin seeing "insurgents" attacking logistics hubs in Poland?

[bmk1245]

Boo hoo, Ukrainians bought weapons the same way as "polite green men".

If muscovites don't like it, they can get the f out from Ukraine.

I wouldn't mind seeing Moscow in the state Bakhmut is.

[Alchopwn]

56 minutes ago, and-then said:

IF this report is true then hopefully Zelenskyy will publicly disavow it and be shown to hold the perps responsible.  Th lines in this conflict just keep becoming more blurred.  What happens next?  Do we suddenly begin seeing "insurgents" attacking logistics hubs in Poland?

I think you overestimate the reach and popularity of Putin's regime.  If Putin could pull off a stunt like that he would have done it already.  Putin is presently trying to blur the lines in Kosovo by whetting up the Serbs.  The notion that Putin's special forces could strike at NATO behind the lines, while not completely impossible, seems unlikely seeing as how the Spetznaz units he might have used have been massacred in Ukraine, and have proven to be yet another paper tiger in the Russian arsenal.

Edited June 4 by Alchopwn

[Alchopwn]

1 hour ago, Occult1 said:

Use of NATO arms for attack in Russia raises doubts about Kyiv’s controls

''The Russian fighters aligned against Moscow who launched a cross-border raid from Ukraine into the Belgorod region of Russia last week used at least four tactical vehicles originally given to Ukraine by the United States and Poland, U.S. officials said, raising questions about the unintended use of NATO-provided equipment and Kyiv’s commitments to secure materiel supplied by its supporters.

Three of the Mine-Resistant Ambush Protected vehicles, also known as MRAPs, taken into Russia by the fighters were provided by the United States and the fourth was from Poland, according to people familiar with the U.S. intelligence finding, which has not previously been reported. Those people spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss the sensitive issue.''

Source:

Washington Post: https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/06/03/nato-weapons-russia/

https://archive.is/zCl1I (No paywall)

The forces using the MRAPs are the Free Russians.  They are allied to the Ukranians, but they are not the forces of Ukraine.  The stated aim of the Free Russians is to liberate Russia from Putin, which is not part of Ukraine's aims, which are limited to defending Ukranian territorial and national sovereignty in the face of unprovoked Russian aggression.  It is extremely likely that the Free Russians purchased the MRAPs privately, and they are not part of the NATO materiel commitments.  MRAPs and Humvees are expensive, but not extremely so (I could afford some, for example), and while they are rated for military use, they can be purchased by security firms and civilians, thus it is questionable whether they can be considered strictly military assets.  Rather, they should be considered paramilitary assets.  This story is a beat up.

[DarkHunter]

Depending on condition and specific model, since MRAP is a class and not a specific vehicle, the cost can be anywhere from $100,000 to $1 million.  A single wealthy sponsor could easily buy the MRAPs that were used by the Free Russian Legion (or whatever their actual name is cause I come across multiple translations of their name)

It's also possible that the Free Russian Legion might of been able to buy the MRAPs themselves.  The majority of Free Russian Legion were defectors from the Russian military and the Ukranian government was paying significant amounts for turned in Russian military vehicles from defectors.  

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

2 hours ago, and-then said:

IF this report is true then hopefully Zelenskyy will publicly disavow it and be shown to hold the perps responsible.  Th lines in this conflict just keep becoming more blurred.  What happens next?  Do we suddenly begin seeing "insurgents" attacking logistics hubs in Poland?

US “military unit advisors” being spotted in action will be next. 
followed by the death of some of them. 

[Unusual Tournament]

2 hours ago, Alchopwn said:

The forces using the MRAPs are the Free Russians.  They are allied to the Ukranians, but they are not the forces of Ukraine.  The stated aim of the Free Russians is to liberate Russia from Putin, which is not part of Ukraine's aims, which are limited to defending Ukranian territorial and national sovereignty in the face of unprovoked Russian aggression.  It is extremely likely that the Free Russians purchased the MRAPs privately, and they are not part of the NATO materiel commitments.  MRAPs and Humvees are expensive, but not extremely so (I could afford some, for example), and while they are rated for military use, they can be purchased by security firms and civilians, thus it is questionable whether they can be considered strictly military assets.  Rather, they should be considered paramilitary assets.  This story is a beat up.

It’s a shadowy group but it’s definitely funded by anti-Russian country’s. More than likely UK and Polish organised. 

[Piney]

4 hours ago, and-then said:

IF this report is true then hopefully Zelenskyy will publicly disavow it and be shown to hold the perps responsible.  Th lines in this conflict just keep becoming more blurred.  What happens next?  Do we suddenly begin seeing "insurgents" attacking logistics hubs in Poland?

After what the Soviets did to the Poles, that would be a big mistake.

[Alchopwn]

Since the Kinzhal missiles were shot down Russia has changed its tune.  Russian Propaganda TV is now saying that nuclear weapons are not an option and anyone who says otherwise is a traitor working to destroy Russia... Which means half the panelists... ROFL.  Russian propaganda is some of the unintentionally funniest viewing.  It's a pity it is tragicomic.

Edited June 4 by Alchopwn

[Occult1]

8 hours ago, Alchopwn said:

It is extremely likely that the Free Russians purchased the MRAPs privately, and they are not part of the NATO materiel commitments.  MRAPs and Humvees are expensive, but not extremely so (I could afford some, for example), and while they are rated for military use, they can be purchased by security firms and civilians, thus it is questionable whether they can be considered strictly military assets.  Rather, they should be considered paramilitary assets.  This story is a beat up.

Except that it's not what they are claiming:

''RDK told The Post in a statement that it had used no foreign equipment in the operation. ''

Or:

Ponomarev acknowledged there are restrictions against using Western equipment in Russia, but claimed the vehicles used had a long chain of custody that made it acceptable in this instance. He said they used “trophies” that the Russians captured from Ukrainians and were subsequently recaptured and kept by the legion. Ponomarev did not provide any evidence to support his claim that the legion had recaptured Western equipment from Russian forces.

 

Their rifles also match with those that have been provided to Ukraine by Belgium and Czech Republic:

Yet photographs posted on RDK’s Instagram page and videos sent to The Post by the group show fighters in Belgorod holding various rifles, including the Czech-made CZ Bren and Belgium’s FN SCAR, according to Jonathan Ferguson, the keeper of firearms and artillery at Britain’s Royal Armouries who reviewed the images for The Post.

https://archive.is/zCl1I#selection-1475.89-1475.418

 

I don't think we should be in denial about where all those weapons are coming from.

Edited June 4 by Occult1

[jmccr8]

12 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

Except that it's not what they are claiming:

''RDK told The Post in a statement that it had used no foreign equipment in the operation. ''

Or:

Ponomarev acknowledged there are restrictions against using Western equipment in Russia, but claimed the vehicles used had a long chain of custody that made it acceptable in this instance. He said they used “trophies” that the Russians captured from Ukrainians and were subsequently recaptured and kept by the legion. Ponomarev did not provide any evidence to support his claim that the legion had recaptured Western equipment from Russian forces.

 

Their rifles also match with those that have been provided to Ukraine by Belgium and Czech Republic:

Yet photographs posted on RDK’s Instagram page and videos sent to The Post by the group show fighters in Belgorod holding various rifles, including the Czech-made CZ Bren and Belgium’s FN SCAR, according to Jonathan Ferguson, the keeper of firearms and artillery at Britain’s Royal Armouries who reviewed the images for The Post.

https://archive.is/zCl1I#selection-1475.89-1475.418

 

I don't think we should be in denial about where all those weapons are coming from.

Hi Occult

Does it worry you that Russians are fighting for change in their own land? Personally kudos to them.

[bmk1245]

20 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

[...]

I don't think we should be in denial about where all those weapons are coming from.

Can be bought on every bazaar.

[Occult1]

1 hour ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Occult

Does it worry you that Russians are fighting for change in their own land? Personally kudos to them.

I'm more worried about the weapons we are sending to Ukraine being used by armed forces (including a neo-nazi group) to launch attacks on Russian soil. This could be interpreted as a declaration of war.

There is also the real possibility that NATO weapons end up on the black market if Kyiv cannot control them, fueling other conflicts around the world once the war is over.

Edited June 4 by Occult1

[bmk1245]

12 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

I'm more worried about the weapons we are sending to Ukraine being used by armed forces (including a neo-nazi group) to launch attacks on Russian soil. This could be interpreted as a declaration of war.

There is also the real possibility that NATO weapons end up on the black market if Kyiv cannot control them, fueling other conflicts around the world once the war is over.

Cry me a river.

What internal infight in muscovy have to do with Ukraine? BPR (Belgorod Peoples Republic) rose up against rashist empire, want to be independent.

[jmccr8]

59 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

I'm more worried about the weapons we are sending to Ukraine being used by armed forces (including a neo-nazi group) to launch attacks on Russian soil. This could be interpreted as a declaration of war.

There is also the real possibility that NATO weapons end up on the black market if Kyiv cannot control them, fueling other conflicts around the world once the war is over.

Hi Occult

Your nazi cry about anyone that opposes Putin is worn out, it is a declaration of revolt by Russian citizens which is to be ecpected. Wagner is more nazi than anyone else in this conflict but you never decry their acts why is that?

[Occult1]

Polish Volunteer Corps supporting Russian guerilla raids, video report

https://news.yahoo.com/polish-volunteer-corps-supporting-russian-161700142.html

 

It doesn't look like a 'revolt by Russian citizens'.

Edited June 4 by Occult1

[bmk1245]

BPR (Belgorod Peoples Respublic), BPR (Bryansk Peoples Respublic) and KPR (Kursk Peoples Respublic) soon to join NATO. Western countries should support that.

[jmccr8]

7 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

Polish Volunteer Corps supporting Russian guerilla raids, video report

https://news.yahoo.com/polish-volunteer-corps-supporting-russian-161700142.html

 

It doesn't look like a 'revolt by Russian citizens'.

Hi Occult

Yes it is possiblle but the reality is they are Russian citizens and are recruiting men in Russia with the intent of going to Moscow. Why do you have a hard time accepting that everyone in Russia is not supportive of Putin? Russians have been setting fires and bombs off in Russia since the first conscription.

[Grey Area]

2 hours ago, Occult1 said:

I'm more worried about the weapons we are sending to Ukraine being used by armed forces (including a neo-nazi group) to launch attacks on Russian soil. This could be interpreted as a declaration of war.

So if NATO invaded Russia, but equipped all the troops with Kalashnikovs, would that mean it’s a civil war, rather than an invasion?

 

2 hours ago, Occult1 said:

There is also the real possibility that NATO weapons end up on the black market if Kyiv cannot control them, fueling other conflicts around the world once the war is over.

You are Naive if you think NATO weapons are not readily available on the black market.

This apparent controversy over what weapons are used is a straw man, it’s a distraction.  The weapons used are either going to be NATO standard, or former Warsaw Pact.

[+and-then]

11 hours ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

US “military unit advisors” being spotted in action will be next. 
followed by the death of some of them. 

I believe this as well.  I wouldn't be surprised at all.  If F-16s enter this battle in less than a year, NATO pilots would be the most likely casualties.  But it's okay, Putin would never lash out irrationally, and even if he wanted to, Russia is unable. 

[Buzz_Light_Year]

2 hours ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Occult

Yes it is possiblle but the reality is they are Russian citizens and are recruiting men in Russia with the intent of going to Moscow. Why do you have a hard time accepting that everyone in Russia is not supportive of Putin? Russians have been setting fires and bombs off in Russia since the first conscription.

Of course the video doesn't show Russian citizens who are in favor of the war but that is to be expected, yet it does show that some Russian citizens are not entirely on board about the war. The lady at the end of the video is quite enlightening.

[bmk1245]

12 minutes ago, and-then said:

I believe this as well.  I wouldn't be surprised at all.  If F-16s enter this battle in less than a year, NATO pilots would be the most likely casualties.  But it's okay, Putin would never lash out irrationally, and even if he wanted to, Russia is unable. 

How long it would take you to drive different car? How long lasts pilot training in Boeing Airbus transition?

[bmk1245]

5 minutes ago, Buzz_Light_Year said:

Of course the video doesn't show Russian citizens who are in favor of the war but that is to be expected, yet it does show that some Russian citizens are not entirely on board about the war. The lady at the end of the video is quite enlightening.

In two words  - "нам жопа"

MFs sang quite different song year ago.

[Occult1]

Ukraine reportedly deploys Belgian weapons to help insurgents in Russia's Belgorod Oblast, Foreign Ministry says - media                                                                                                   

"The government of Belgium will ask Ukraine to give explanations related to the latest reports that say Kyiv supplies Russian insurgents in Russia’s Belgorod Oblast with Belgian weapons, as per Het Laatste Nieuws.

 

According to a source from the Foreign Ministry of Belgium, weapons were transferred to Ukraine with a clear objective: to support its defense efforts against Russian aggression on its territory and enhance the capabilities of the Ukrainian Army. The supplies were provided under the terms of contracts signed by both parties. The source emphasized that the weapons were never intended to be transferred to isolated factions with internal Russian interests."                                                                           

   https://euromaidanpress.com/2023/06/04/ukraine-reportedly-deploys-belgian-weapons-to-help-russian-insurgents-in-russias-belgorod-oblast-foreign-ministry-says-media/                                                                                                                                                                                 The evidence keeps piling up that the insurgents are a front of the UAF to launch attacks on Russian soil.                                      

Edited June 4 by Occult1