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Pope comments on Virgin Mary statue 'tears of blood' controversy


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Always good to have two sources when one of your sources is the Guardian.

https://www.ansa.it/english/news/vatican/2023/06/04/virgin-mary-apparitions-not-always-real-says-pope_184eee82-6a7f-427b-b6a8-e91b955df2e5.html

The Pope's remarks seem to avoid the main issue, that the performing statue is a fake, yet another instance of a well-known kind of perennial fake. He might instead have said "the matter is under investigation," which it is, and avoided the issue that way. But no, everything would be peachy with him, he seems to say, if the Mary statue were pointing to a baby doll while she was shedding her pork-blood tears.

1 hour ago, Piney said:

Now if would only tell the poor they should use birth control. 

I dunno, if he can't tell the truth about a low-rent magic trick, then it may be a while before he steps up to telling the truth about something serious.

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1 hour ago, eight bits said:

Always good to have two sources when one of your sources is the Guardian.

What news source do you think is more reliable?

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As things stand, she still attends the statue at the park, but her audience is significantly reduced.

"Don't look there," Pope Francis recently stated during an interview.

"There are images of the Madonna that are real, but the Madonna has never drawn [attention] to herself. I like to see her with her finger pointing up to Jesus."

"When Marian devotion is too self-centred, it's not good. Both in the devotion and in the people who carry it forward."

Interesting. So according to him, the Madonna could draw attention to herself, but chooses not to. A bit like God Himself then, he has been very shy and retiring since his heyday  2000 years ago when he used to blast cities to rubble and give people rules to live by. And she points up to where Jesus is. So those Christians who deride us atheists as being simplistic when we laugh at their bearded old man in the sky may be wrong- they are up there somewhere!

Edited by pellinore
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13 minutes ago, pellinore said:

What news source do you think is more reliable?

When I composed the post, I foresaw that I might crticize what the Pope said. Thus, I wanted to be on secure ground about what he actually said. The Guardian has in the past pimped fake quotes, most notably the much-improved English language version of the "God letter" from Albert Einstein to Eric Gutkind. A lot of people fell for that one, and to this day, the fake version is widely available on the internet.

Screw me once, shame on you. Screw me twice, shame on me.

ANSA is a well regarded consortium of Italian media outlets with a strong record of reliable Vatican coverage.

 

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Never heard of this one. that some of these  things, like the appearence of the Virgin Mary at Zeuiton in Egypt,m was real, others  are not, and easy to fake in the case of weeping or bleeding statues. And  if you read about Our Lady in Egypt, it was seen , not just by christians, Coptic, Orthodox and Roman Catholics, but by muslims, and other people, including protestants, like tourists (a mixed bag of beliefs)and non believers.. No message was given, but she blessed the crowds and was seen praying for them.

There are certain  ones that are approved by the church, like Lourdes and Fatima. St.Bernadette Soubrious at Lourdes,  didn't make any money off it and neither did her family. She entered the Sisters of Charity of Nevers, the order who taught here in school. Sister Lucia of Fatima's two companions  who also saw Mary died young. She herself first  entered the Sisters of St.Dorothy, and later joined the Carmelite Nuns, a cloistered order. Many of these people never made any money off these apparitions and for some, their lives got harder, not easier .

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13 minutes ago, eight bits said:

When I composed the post, I foresaw that I might crticize what the Pope said. Thus, I wanted to be on secure ground about what he actually said. The Guardian has in the past pimped fake quotes, most notably the much-improved English language version of the "God letter" from Albert Einstein to Eric Gutkind. A lot of people fell for that one, and to this day, the fake version is widely available on the internet.

Screw me once, shame on you. Screw me twice, shame on me.

ANSA is a well regarded consortium of Italian media outlets with a strong record of reliable Vatican coverage.

 

How interesting. I like to learn about new stuff. Do you have a link to anything on the Guardian article/interpretation on the letter- I can't find anything.

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14 minutes ago, HollyDolly said:

Never heard of this one. that some of these  things, like the appearence of the Virgin Mary at Zeuiton in Egypt,m was real, others  are not, and easy to fake in the case of weeping or bleeding statues.

When you say "real" I take it you mean widely reported, not "real" in the sense of actually occurring?

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1 hour ago, pellinore said:

How interesting. I like to learn about new stuff. Do you have a link to anything on the Guardian article/interpretation on the letter- I can't find anything.

Here's the Uncertaintist blog's coverage of the issue:

https://uncertaintist.wordpress.com/tag/einstein-gutkind-letter/

The stories span the 2008 auction (the source of the flawed translation promoted by the Guardian), the e-Bay 2012 auction (where the letter reportedly failed to sell at a minimum bid of $ 3 million), and the 2018 Christie's auction (which did realize almost $ 3 million).

The briefest summary of the difficulty is probably this piece:

https://uncertaintist.wordpress.com/2012/09/28/who-translated-the-einstein-gutkind-letter-for-the-guardian-newspaper/

which was, to my knowledge, the earliest publication in any medium of the actual provenance of the Guardian version.

The Uncertaintist did not exist in 2008, and was not the first to write about the discrepancy between what Einstein wrote in German and what the Guardian promoted as the English "translation" of that. I believe the scoop goes to the Die Welt newspaper who re-translated the Guardian English version back into German except for the most inflammatory material. For that, they went directly to the (poor quality) first-auction publicity photos of the letter and accurately transcribed Einstein's much milder German comments.

ETA You got me curious what does come up these days for the search term einstein gutkind letter. I note that the Guardian was still flogging its version in 2018, despite running a high quality photograph of the first page of the letter (i.e. most of the original text). Lol. All they needed to do was to read their own exhibit.

(The first web-available high quality photos appeared in 2012 from the sponsors of the e-Bay auction.)

Edited by eight bits
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4 hours ago, pellinore said:

When you say "real" I take it you mean widely reported, not "real" in the sense of actually occurring?

Real in the sense of a case of mass hysteria and a atmospheric event.

The pictures are all doctored or outright forgeries.

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Does Monsignor Bergoglio even have any authority to "pontificate" on this. If one were to believe in "miracles" you might as well believe that Bergoglio is the Pope, or even a Catholic, or even a Christian.

Edited by Wepwawet
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The Pope says this, the Pope says that.... Who cares what the Pope says about anything? Or the Dalai Lama? Or some ayatollah or mullah?

 

The Pope is just some old fossil leading a child abusing, women hating, anti-semitic and hypocritic cult that spread across the earth like the plague.

It's about time we get rid of mind-plagues like this.

 

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On 6/6/2023 at 3:12 PM, Abramelin said:

The Pope says this, the Pope says that.... Who cares what the Pope says about anything? Or the Dalai Lama? Or some ayatollah or mullah?

 

The Pope is just some old fossil leading a child abusing, women hating, anti-semitic and hypocritic cult that spread across the earth like the plague.

It's about time we get rid of mind-plagues like this.

:nw:

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On 6/5/2023 at 6:34 AM, pellinore said:

What news source do you think is more reliable?

You're asking that about the Daily Mail's opposite twin :lol:

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