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Nova Kakhovka Dam destroyed in Kherson Oblast


Nuclear Wessel

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That's not good

More then likely Russia blew the dam as it was the only viable crossing point south of Dnipro.  Ukraine could of done it as the eastern bank is lower then the western bank so the flooding would predominantly hurt the Russian defensive lines down stream but it would make an already insanely difficult river crossing even more difficult.

Even then there has been reports that Russia had the dam mined and ready to be blown since the liberation of Kherson.

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Regardless of responsibility, almost certainly Russia destroyed the dam, but with the destruction of the dam Crimea has just lost its water.  Crimea cant sustain its current population with the amount of water naturally in Crimea and Crimea needs to get water from the North Crimean Canal, problem is that canal got its water from the reservoir behind the Nova Khakova dam.  With the dam destroyed the water supply to Crimea will dry up.  

Crimea does have water reserves but before Russia invaded they were getting close to empty.  Russia has probably tried to fill them as best they can but only getting water for about 18 months at absolute best bought them approximately an additional 18 months.  In 3 to 4 years Crimea will probably be a desert.

Edited by DarkHunter
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That is likely a huge Russian "own goal".  It was distinctly unlikely that Ukraine was going to attack over the Dnipro in any force due to the lack of supply over bridges.  If Ukraine has enough boats to manage that supply/logistics and a military landing in force, then blowing the dam is a pointless act of mindless destruction.  Either way, Crimea is now going to start dying of thirst.

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1 minute ago, Occult1 said:

 

Yeah, both sides are blaming each other. That's what I'm seeing on Twitter.  What else is new.  One thing is for certain Ukraine cities continue to get wrecked where they will be uninhabitable no matter who claims victory.

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Ok the Dam was blown, what does Ukr win? IMO nothing, it was a crucial infrastructure destroyed, another potential ussue to the nuclear powe plant, an environmental disaster, mud soil for some weeks that will make vehicles movements near impossible.

What does Russia win? Another "evidence" of ukr terrorism, a frontline much easier to defend, potential issues in the nuclear power plant, Ukr military stucked wuth supporting local civilian population evacuation.

Yes it does look like the Ukr "did it", and Russia is again "the victim".

Edited by godnodog
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51 minutes ago, godnodog said:

it was a crucial infrastructure destroyed, another potential ussue to the nuclear powe plant, an environmental disaster,

Does the Zaporizhia plant depend on that water for cooling?  I haven't kept up with the latest on the war but it doesn't seem like Russia would benefit from destroying it any more than Ukraine would.  If Russia did it, maybe that indicates the long-awaited offensive had to be blunted somehow?

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1 minute ago, and-then said:

Does the Zaporizhia plant depend on that water for cooling?  I haven't kept up with the latest on the war but it doesn't seem like Russia would benefit from destroying it any more than Ukraine would.  If Russia did it, maybe that indicates the long-awaited offensive had to be blunted somehow?

The reactors for the nuclear plant rely on water from the reservoir for cooling.  If the destruction of the dam will impact the cooling I have no idea, really comes down to how far below the surface they put the inlets for the water.  Hopefully it was designed in such a way that the inlets for the water would be below where the river would naturally be for a worse case scenario.

Russia benefits if there plan has changed from annexing all or parts of Ukraine to simply destroying Ukraine.  The dam was also a hydroelectric plant that generated 1.4 TWh of energy annually.  If Russia wasnt expecting to hold the east side of the dam for much longer they might elect to destroy it to do as much damage as possible to Ukraine.

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5 minutes ago, and-then said:

Does the Zaporizhia plant depend on that water for cooling?  I haven't kept up with the latest on the war but it doesn't seem like Russia would benefit from destroying it any more than Ukraine would.  If Russia did it, maybe that indicates the long-awaited offensive had to be blunted somehow?

For what I read the water comes from this river, I do not know if the cooling water comes from the dam system or not.

As for what ot means for the offensive plans I think, if its the case, that this was surely taken into account as a possibility by the Ukr military command.

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1 hour ago, and-then said:

Does the Zaporizhia plant depend on that water for cooling?  I haven't kept up with the latest on the war but it doesn't seem like Russia would benefit from destroying it any more than Ukraine would.  If Russia did it, maybe that indicates the long-awaited offensive had to be blunted somehow?

In short, yes, the Zaporizhzhia plant does depend on water from the Kakhovka reservoir.  The reason Russia may benefit from destroying the dam is if they are convinced that Ukraine is going to cross the Dnipro as part of their counter-offensive.   Potentially a wall of water could destroy those plans and turn the invasion ground into mud for months.  How much danger there is to the Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Plant remains uncertain, but there could be a melt down if it can't obtain water.

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7 hours ago, Occult1 said:

There is a theory that neither side did it:

 

There is a difference between sealing sluice gates to cause overflow and overtly destroying the dam, which is what happened.

This also is not the first time that Russia has tampered with operations at the dam. They blew up (a part of) the dam bridge as they withdrew from Kherson, they have attempted to drain the reservoir, etc.

I'm unsurprised that you're pushing the "either Ukraine did it, or neither side did it" angle. Par for the course to completely avoid holding Russia accountable for anything.

Edited by Nuclear Wessel
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If, as claimed, the reservoir was at record levels then it is entirely possible the already damaged dam collapsed of it's own accord.   Especially given that the Russian military seem to be as adept at managing a dam as they are at spreading world peace, love and forgiveness.

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13 minutes ago, Buzz_Light_Year said:

Well it was destroyed by someone.

 

Well, to be fair, whoever did it, we know that the British were ultimately responsible, as they are for everything bad that has happened for the past 800,000 years.  But hey, us Brits are used to it.  Water off a duck's back :D

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Kremlin says Ukraine sabotaged dam to cut Crimea's water, distract from own failure

MOSCOW, June 6 (Reuters) - The Kremlin on Tuesday accused Kyiv of sabotaging the Kakhovka hydro-electric dam in the Russian-controlled part of Ukraine to cut off a key source of water for Crimea and distract attention from a "faltering" counter-offensive against Russian forces.

Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said President Vladimir Putin had been briefed on the situation after water burst through the Soviet-era dam in the early hours.

"We can state unequivocally that we are talking about deliberate sabotage by the Ukrainian side," Peskov told reporters. "The Kyiv regime should bear full responsibility for all the consequences."

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/kremlin-says-ukraine-sabotaged-dam-cut-crimeas-water-distract-own-failure-2023-06-06/

 
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27 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

Kremlin says Ukraine sabotaged dam to cut Crimea's water, distract from own failure

MOSCOW, June 6 (Reuters) - The Kremlin on Tuesday accused Kyiv of sabotaging the Kakhovka hydro-electric dam in the Russian-controlled part of Ukraine to cut off a key source of water for Crimea and distract attention from a "faltering" counter-offensive against Russian forces.

Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said President Vladimir Putin had been briefed on the situation after water burst through the Soviet-era dam in the early hours.

"We can state unequivocally that we are talking about deliberate sabotage by the Ukrainian side," Peskov told reporters. "The Kyiv regime should bear full responsibility for all the consequences."

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/kremlin-says-ukraine-sabotaged-dam-cut-crimeas-water-distract-own-failure-2023-06-06/

 

Hi Occult

The counter offensive has not faultered and have seen you post these claims a few times now. I think Russia is realizing the growing situation in their own country is problematic and used the dam to slow down Ukraine's ability to strike in that sector. I think at this time taking out the bridge to Crimea from Russia would be the best response to curb Russian access to move supplies.

It will be interesting to see what happens with the reactor, if it becomes a problem will it be considered a nuclear attack? It was made clear after the inspections last year that anything that compromises the site would be of great concern.

Edited by jmccr8
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I think it was a stupid action by either a Russian or a Ukrainian commander.

Whoever it was, the result will probably not be what they expected or hoped for.

The Dnjepr river will change its course and no one knows how.

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This is the equivalent of launching a tactical nuclear weapon on Ukraine in terms of impact and devastation. Terrible.

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10 hours ago, Occult1 said:

Kremlin says Ukraine sabotaged dam to cut Crimea's water, distract from own failure

MOSCOW, June 6 (Reuters) - The Kremlin on Tuesday accused Kyiv of sabotaging the Kakhovka hydro-electric dam in the Russian-controlled part of Ukraine to cut off a key source of water for Crimea and distract attention from a "faltering" counter-offensive against Russian forces.

Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said President Vladimir Putin had been briefed on the situation after water burst through the Soviet-era dam in the early hours.

"We can state unequivocally that we are talking about deliberate sabotage by the Ukrainian side," Peskov told reporters. "The Kyiv regime should bear full responsibility for all the consequences."

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/kremlin-says-ukraine-sabotaged-dam-cut-crimeas-water-distract-own-failure-2023-06-06/

 

image.thumb.png.d43442137e756aa4472e48125f52f170.png

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@Nuclear Wessel

White House: US cannot conclusively determine cause of Ukrainian dam destruction

WASHINGTON, June 6 (Reuters) - The White House on Tuesday said it could not say conclusively what caused the destruction of a massive dam in Ukraine, but was assessing reports that the blast was caused by Russia, which has been occupying the dam since last year.

Spokesman John Kirby said it was clear that the destruction of the dam on the Dnipro River that separates Russian and Ukrainian forces in southern Ukraine had likely caused "many deaths" and the evacuation of thousands of Ukrainians.

Kirby told reporters the damage could have a devastating impact on Ukraine's energy security.

"We've seen the reports that Russia was responsible for the explosion at the dam," he said. "We're doing the best we can to assess those reports, and we are working with the Ukrainians to gather more information, but we cannot say conclusively what happened."

https://www.reuters.com/world/white-house-us-cannot-conclusively-determine-cause-ukrainian-dam-destruction-2023-06-06/

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32 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

@Nuclear Wessel

White House: US cannot conclusively determine cause of Ukrainian dam destruction

WASHINGTON, June 6 (Reuters) - The White House on Tuesday said it could not say conclusively what caused the destruction of a massive dam in Ukraine, but was assessing reports that the blast was caused by Russia, which has been occupying the dam since last year.

Spokesman John Kirby said it was clear that the destruction of the dam on the Dnipro River that separates Russian and Ukrainian forces in southern Ukraine had likely caused "many deaths" and the evacuation of thousands of Ukrainians.

Kirby told reporters the damage could have a devastating impact on Ukraine's energy security.

"We've seen the reports that Russia was responsible for the explosion at the dam," he said. "We're doing the best we can to assess those reports, and we are working with the Ukrainians to gather more information, but we cannot say conclusively what happened."

https://www.reuters.com/world/white-house-us-cannot-conclusively-determine-cause-ukrainian-dam-destruction-2023-06-06/

It was Russia. 

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