Operation Liberate Zaporizhzhia likely starting tonight

[+Nuclear Wessel]

 

 

[DarkHunter]

Ukraine has received a lot of NATO equipment and vehicles so it makes sense the offensive would start at night.  The FLIR/whatever night vision NATO vehicles have along with infantry night vision goggles are far superior then anything Russia has or produces so starting at night would make sense.

This could still just be probing attacks or holding actions.

[DarkHunter]

It seems Ukranian forces have at minimum penetrated 5 km deep in at least one area of the Zaporizhzhia front.  There are conflicting reports on if Robotyne is being fought for or liberated by Ukraine.  Robotyne is about 10 km away from Tokmak on a major roadway.  If Ukraine takes Tokmak that will cut the only railroad connecting the eastern and western occupied areas of southern Ukraine.

In southern Ukraine there are two railroads that come out of Crimea, one goes west to Kherson and one goes east to Melitopol, through Tokmak, essentially ending at Mariupol, it does not connect to the rest of the railroads in eastern Ukraine around Donetsk city.

[Occult1]

Russia says it repelled major Ukrainian overnight attack on southern front

MOSCOW, June 8 (Reuters) - Russian Defence Minister Sergei Shoigu said on Thursday that his forces had repelled large-scale overnight attempts by Ukrainian troops to break through the frontline in the southern Zaporizhzhia region and had inflicted heavy losses on them.

Reuters could not independently verify Shoigu's battlefield account and there was no immediate comment on the situation from the Ukrainian defence ministry.

[...]

"At 1.30 a.m. today the enemy attempted to break through our defences in the Zaporizhzhia direction with forces from the 47th Mechanised Brigade numbering up to 1,500 men and 150 armoured vehicles," Shoigu said in a statement. 

"The enemy was detected in time by our reconnaissance forces and a preventative strike was delivered by our artillery and aviation forces and using anti-tank weapons."

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-says-it-repelled-major-ukrainian-overnight-attack-southern-front-2023-06-08/

[Occult1]

Germany’s Top Tank Destroyed on Ukrainian Frontlines: Leopard 2A6 and Dozens of American Bradleys Taken Out

https://militarywatchmagazine.com/article/leo2a6-destroyed-ukraine-bradleys

[Unusual Tournament]

Rumours are circulating Ukrainian commander in Chief Zaluzhny, has been removed from office due to delaying tactics in the current offensive, instead wanting to wait for western supplied air support and more long range weapons.

Alexander Syrsky, is in charge now. 

[Occult1]

9 hours ago, Unusual Tournament said:

Rumours are circulating Ukrainian commander in Chief Zaluzhny, has been removed from office due to delaying tactics in the current offensive, instead wanting to wait for western supplied air support and more long range weapons.

Alexander Syrsky, is in charge now. 

They are losing an insane amount of equipment so far. There are videos of destroyed Bradleys and tanks all over the place.

[DarkHunter]

54 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

They are losing an insane amount of equipment so far. There are videos of destroyed Bradleys and tanks all over the place.

Losses are inevitable on any offensive but the losses arent as bad as Russia is making them out to be.

Confirmed losses are of one Leopard 2A4 was destroyed, one Leopard 2A6 was destroyed, and one Leopard 2A6 was damaged.  As for the Bradleys one was destroyed and ten were damaged.

From unconfirmed reports most if not all of the damaged vehicles were recovered by Ukraine and can be repaired.

The videos and pictures are of mostly two small columns taken from drones from different angles and passed off as multiple different columns being destroyed.

[Unusual Tournament]

4 hours ago, Occult1 said:

They are losing an insane amount of equipment so far. There are videos of destroyed Bradleys and tanks all over the place.

The lancet and Russian KA-52 attack helicopters are reaping Ukrainian weapons, thanks to air superiority. So many emotional posters here thought Western arms are immune from Russian weapons. Don’t they look silly.

All indications are that Ukraine is capturing lost territory also. The situation is fluid. Both media camps are talking about small victories so the truth is somewhere in between im guessing. 
 

Wait and see but without air support I can’t see Ukraine liberating and holding occupied territory for long

[Unusual Tournament]

3 hours ago, DarkHunter said:

Losses are inevitable on any offensive but the losses arent as bad as Russia is making them out to be.

Confirmed losses are of one Leopard 2A4 was destroyed, one Leopard 2A6 was destroyed, and one Leopard 2A6 was damaged.  As for the Bradleys one was destroyed and ten were damaged.

From unconfirmed reports most if not all of the damaged vehicles were recovered by Ukraine and can be repaired.

The videos and pictures are of mostly two small columns taken from drones from different angles and passed off as multiple different columns being destroyed.

The thing here is a delicate mix of western skullduggery and soon to be reverse engineering. 
 

Western tanks thou not immune from Russian weapons certainly are better designed to protect their crews, while Russian and Chinese systems are movable coffins.

I expect to see Russian/Chinese/Iranian Leopard and Bradley knock offs soon. 
 

Interesting that no American Abrams MBT’s have been put in harms way and exports will increase now that the mystery of the Leopards has been shattered 

[godnodog]

54 minutes ago, Unusual Tournament said:

The thing here is a delicate mix of western skullduggery and soon to be reverse engineering. 
 

Western tanks thou not immune from Russian weapons certainly are better designed to protect their crews, while Russian and Chinese systems are movable coffins.

I expect to see Russian/Chinese/Iranian Leopard and Bradley knock offs soon. 
 

Interesting that no American Abrams MBT’s have been put in harms way and exports will increase now that the mystery of the Leopards has been shattered 

the Abrams will suffer the same fate as the Leopard, as will the british or french tanks, or chinese or Korean or russian, the weapons being used are really effective against tanks

[Occult1]

Russia says it repels Ukraine's offensive in east and south

''MOSCOW (Reuters) - The Russian Defence Ministry said on Saturday that Ukraine's forces have continued "unsuccessful" attempts in the past 24 hours to launch attacks south of Donetsk and in Zaporizhzhia regions, as well as in the area of the eastern city of Bakhmut.

Russian President Vladimir Putin said on Friday that Ukrainian forces had certainly begun their expected counteroffensive in intense fighting in Ukraine, but that every attempted advance had failed, at a heavy cost in casualties.

Reuters was not able to independently verify that assertion or the situation on the battlefield.''

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russia-says-it-repels-ukraines-offensive-in-east-and-south/ar-AA1cnqEh

[+Nuclear Wessel]

https://twitter.com/Faytuks/status/1667641703245795330?s=20

[Unusual Tournament]

34 minutes ago, godnodog said:

the Abrams will suffer the same fate as the Leopard, as will the british or french tanks, or chinese or Korean or russian, the weapons being used are really effective against tanks

Correct. But the invincibility of the Leopard has been broken by small numbers, badly led assault (no air support) and most importantly, telling the world and Russians, Ukraine is gonna counterattack over 6 months ago. The American war complex will sell many Abrams and the Leopard sales will suffer because the Germans will not be viewed as unreliable allies, who procrastinate on sending weapons and when they do in insufficient numbers. It’s all PR

Edited June 10 by Unusual Tournament

[Unusual Tournament]

My assessment of this counterattack:

Truth is regardless of the outcome, some sad constants have stayed the same:

1/Russia has been given far too much warning on the Ukrainian attack

2/Ukraine forces and Russian forces are being led by civilians, meaning that they’re both ****-ups.

3/Ukraine has no meaningful air support. No F-16 or more importantly attack helicopters to open breaches OR stop quick moving armed formations.

4/Ukraine doesn’t have enough western MBT’s to make a difference 

5/This war is over because both sides fear sending out offensive weapons for fear of loitering and smart weapons. 
 

6/Ukrainians should have received these weapons 9 months ago. It’s now too late.

7/War is over. It’s now a negotiation. 

[Unusual Tournament]

37 minutes ago, godnodog said:

the Abrams will suffer the same fate as the Leopard, as will the british or french tanks, or chinese or Korean or russian, the weapons being used are really effective against tanks

This is a double reply.

Strange that the Americans supplied all manner of war equipment BUT left out Abrams MBT’s and air support. The two elements needed to capture back Ukraine’s territory.

I bet you dollars for donuts when the Abrams do arrive it will be with helicopter and F-16 air support, not alone in small numbers and without air support.

The Germans should have made this very clear to the Ukrainians. They knew and the Ukrainians are being led down the garden path towards a compromise 
 

[DarkHunter]

1 hour ago, Unusual Tournament said:

The thing here is a delicate mix of western skullduggery and soon to be reverse engineering. 

Nothing valuable will be gained by reversed engineering anything sent to Ukraine.

1 hour ago, Unusual Tournament said:

I expect to see Russian/Chinese/Iranian Leopard and Bradley knock offs soon. 

At least ten Leopard 2A4 tanks have been destroyed in Syria since the start of the Syrian civil war and quite a few Abrams tanks were destroyed in Yemen.  Meanwhile Lebanon operates M2A2 Bradley IFVs.  Then there is the various assortment of western military equipment given to the various gulf states who have little to no problems passing it around.  Any armored vehicle fielded by NATO that is exported globally Russia, China, and Iran have probably already inspected in high detail.

Even then tanks are extremely expensive and difficult to make, only a handful of countries even make their own tanks and no country is going to spend the resources and time to set up a production line to make knock off tanks.

1 hour ago, Unusual Tournament said:

Interesting that no American Abrams MBT’s have been put in harms way and exports will increase now that the mystery of the Leopards has been shattered 

There never was any mystery to the Leopard 2 tanks other then what people who try to pretend to know what they are talking about but dont try to pass off online.

[DarkHunter]

13 minutes ago, Unusual Tournament said:

My assessment of this counterattack:

Truth is regardless of the outcome, some sad constants have stayed the same:

1/Russia has been given far too much warning on the Ukrainian attack

2/Ukraine forces and Russian forces are being led by civilians, meaning that they’re both ****-ups.

3/Ukraine has no meaningful air support. No F-16 or more importantly attack helicopters to open breaches OR stop quick moving armed formations.

4/Ukraine doesn’t have enough western MBT’s to make a difference 

5/This war is over because both sides fear sending out offensive weapons for fear of loitering and smart weapons. 
 

6/Ukrainians should have received these weapons 9 months ago. It’s now too late.

7/War is over. It’s now a negotiation. 

All complete and utter garbage

[+Nuclear Wessel]

29 minutes ago, DarkHunter said:

All complete and utter garbage

Did you expect anything different? He thinks he is some expert military analyst when he has demonstrated that he knows nothing at all. I just laugh at his BS these days. Nobody takes him seriously. He’s like the stand-in for Electric Scooter. 

[Occult1]

12 minutes ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

Did you expect anything different? He thinks he is some expert military analyst when he has demonstrated that he knows nothing at all. I just laugh at his BS these days. Nobody takes him seriously. He’s like the stand-in for Electric Scooter. 

As if you guys are always right..Still waiting for Ukraine to retake Crimea.

[Occult1]

1 hour ago, Unusual Tournament said:

My assessment of this counterattack:

Truth is regardless of the outcome, some sad constants have stayed the same:

1/Russia has been given far too much warning on the Ukrainian attack

2/Ukraine forces and Russian forces are being led by civilians, meaning that they’re both ****-ups.

3/Ukraine has no meaningful air support. No F-16 or more importantly attack helicopters to open breaches OR stop quick moving armed formations.

4/Ukraine doesn’t have enough western MBT’s to make a difference 

5/This war is over because both sides fear sending out offensive weapons for fear of loitering and smart weapons. 
 

6/Ukrainians should have received these weapons 9 months ago. It’s now too late.

7/War is over. It’s now a negotiation. 

The truth is that no one serious about winning a war advertise a major counteroffensive for 9 months straight. There is literally zero element of surprise.

The Russians took them seriously and had all the time in the world to prepare.

Edited June 10 by Occult1

[Unusual Tournament]

10 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

As if you guys are always right..Still waiting for Ukraine to retake Crimea.

These dudes have a melt down every time someone voices an opinion not their own. 

[Unusual Tournament]

1 minute ago, Occult1 said:

The truth is no one serious about winning a war advertise a major counteroffensive for 9 months straight. There is literally zero element of surprise.

The Russians took them seriously and had all the time in the world to prepare.

Of course they did. If the Russians lose then they deserve it for being incompetent not for Ukraine being the better army

[Setton]

7 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

The truth is that no one serious about winning a war advertise a major counteroffensive for 9 months straight. There is literally zero element of surprise.

The Russians took them seriously and had all the time in the world to prepare.

Are you actually suggesting that if Ukraine hadn't said they'd counterattack Russia would just have assumed they wouldn't try to retake their territory and left it undefended?

[Unusual Tournament]

5 minutes ago, Setton said:

Are you actually suggesting that if Ukraine hadn't said they'd counterattack Russia would just have assumed they wouldn't try to retake their territory and left it undefended?

What a simplistic way of looking at the facts on the ground.
 

Ukraine was doing plenty good just chipping away at Russia’s war machine and army moral without it having to play D-day with limited weapons systems it can ill afford to lose. 

Why would Ukraine behave with such a sense of urgency, and use all troops when if they lose the Russians will March in unopposed? 
 

It makes no sense to change a winning formula by gambling everything on a drastic win. It’s like they want to lose so NATO can come in and save them