pellinore Posted June 8 #1 Share Posted June 8 (edited) A group of Nato countries may be willing to put troops on the ground in Ukraine if member states including the US do not provide tangible security guarantees to Kyiv at the alliance’s summit in Vilnius, the former Nato secretary general Anders Rasmussen has said. Rasmussen, who has been acting as official adviser to the Ukrainian president, Volodymyr Zelenskiy, on Ukraine’s place in a future European security architecture, has been touring Europe and Washington to gauge the shifting mood before the critical summit starts on 11 July. He also warned that even if a group of states did provide Ukraine with security guarantees, others would not allow the issue of Ukraine’s future NATO membership to be kept off the agenda at Vilnius. Nato members may send troops to Ukraine, warns former alliance chief | Nato | The Guardian Edited June 8 by pellinore 2 1 1 Top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Wearer of Hats Posted June 8 #2 Share Posted June 8 AANNDD there we are. The Rubicon. Been nice knowing ya, folks. 6 1 Top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+and-then Posted June 8 #3 Share Posted June 8 2 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said: AANNDD there we are. The Rubicon. Been nice knowing ya, folks. Just trying to ask this question of many here caused me to be mocked. The few who did answer, told the truth and said they'd support it. They have been convinced by their media sources that Putin would NEVER use a nuke under any circumstance. It looks like we may be about to test that belief. If the funny-shaped clouds start appearing, I just hope I live long enough to see DC a smoking ruin before I die. These people in DC are not only evil, they are insane. 2 Top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pellinore Posted June 8 Author #4 Share Posted June 8 (edited) 38 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said: AANNDD there we are. The Rubicon. Been nice knowing ya, folks. It's not a very big step from supplying NATO weapons and expertise, to putting boots on the ground. And the countries closest to Russia (Poland, the Baltic States) and even Germany, France and the UK have been told that they may be next. Maybe it is time to stop *****-footing around. Edit: using a term meaning 'walk carefully like cat' is edited out? Edited June 8 by pellinore 2 1 Top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Occult1 Posted June 8 #5 Share Posted June 8 (edited) They have been talking about it since 2022, so nothing new here. It will never be done without explicit U.S. approval, which at this point will not occur. Because these NATO countries rely on the U.S. for protection. Edited June 8 by Occult1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Occult1 Posted June 8 #6 Share Posted June 8 (edited) 48 minutes ago, and-then said: Just trying to ask this question of many here caused me to be mocked. The few who did answer, told the truth and said they'd support it. They have been convinced by their media sources that Putin would NEVER use a nuke under any circumstance. It looks like we may be about to test that belief. If the funny-shaped clouds start appearing, I just hope I live long enough to see DC a smoking ruin before I die. These people in DC are not only evil, they are insane. Here's what Russia recently said about NATO 'peacekeepers' in Ukraine as reported by TASS: ‘Peacekeepers’ deployed to Ukraine without Russia’s consent must be eliminated – Medvedev ''MOSCOW, March 31. /TASS/. So-called peacekeepers, whose deployment to Ukraine under NATO auspices is currently being mooted in Europe, will be eliminated should any appear at the frontlines without Russia’s consent, Russian Security Council Deputy Chairman Dimity Medvedev said on Friday.'' https://tass.com/politics/1597935 I think it's fair to say it would probably start WW3. Edited June 8 by Occult1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pellinore Posted June 8 Author #7 Share Posted June 8 7 minutes ago, Occult1 said: ‘Peacekeepers’ deployed to Ukraine without Russia’s consent must be eliminated – Medvedev ''MOSCOW, March 31. /TASS/. So-called peacekeepers, whose deployment to Ukraine under NATO auspices is currently being mooted in Europe, will be eliminated should any appear at the frontlines without Russia’s consent, Russian Security Council Deputy Chairman Dimity Medvedev said on Friday.'' https://tass.com/politics/1597935 What makes Russia think it has a say on what European countries do with their armed forces? Russia is in charge of the world,now, is it? I wonder if they are basing that on the brilliant display of military prowess they have put on over the last 18 months. 1 5 Top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hankenhunter Posted June 8 #8 Share Posted June 8 Just now, pellinore said: What makes Russia think it has a say on what European countries do with their armed forces? Russia is in charge of the world,now, is it? I wonder if they are basing that on the brilliant display of military prowess they have put on over the last 18 months. He's crapping his drawers, just like Russia is right now. 4 Top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hankenhunter Posted June 8 #9 Share Posted June 8 58 minutes ago, and-then said: Just trying to ask this question of many here caused me to be mocked. The few who did answer, told the truth and said they'd support it. They have been convinced by their media sources that Putin would NEVER use a nuke under any circumstance. It looks like we may be about to test that belief. If the funny-shaped clouds start appearing, I just hope I live long enough to see DC a smoking ruin before I die. These people in DC are not only evil, they are insane. You are insane. Actively wishing harm on your own country. Why don't you move to Russia where I'm sure you'll be welcomed, then shipped off to fight? 1 1 Top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Occult1 Posted June 8 #10 Share Posted June 8 8 minutes ago, pellinore said: What makes Russia think it has a say on what European countries do with their armed forces? Russia is in charge of the world,now, is it? I wonder if they are basing that on the brilliant display of military prowess they have put on over the last 18 months. We have no business in Ukraine unless we decide to enter the war. NATO troops in Ukraine are a legitimate target for Russia. It's really not hard to comprehend. 1 Top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Wearer of Hats Posted June 8 #11 Share Posted June 8 2 hours ago, pellinore said: It's not a very big step from supplying NATO weapons and expertise, to putting boots on the ground. And the countries closest to Russia (Poland, the Baltic States) and even Germany, France and the UK have been told that they may be next. Maybe it is time to stop *****-footing around. Edit: using a term meaning 'walk carefully like cat' is edited out? And it’s not a very big step from that to The Usual Suspect of Anything asking all it’s mates, allies and pillocks who owe it a favour “asking” (like a Mafia Don “asks”) to supply “a few” troops. Naturally, “the opposition” will ask the same of their allies, rubes and useful idiots. A very few small steps later and it’s all gone “We’ll Meet Again”…. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hammerclaw Posted June 8 #12 Share Posted June 8 3 hours ago, Occult1 said: Here's what Russia recently said about NATO 'peacekeepers' in Ukraine as reported by TASS: ‘Peacekeepers’ deployed to Ukraine without Russia’s consent must be eliminated – Medvedev ''MOSCOW, March 31. /TASS/. So-called peacekeepers, whose deployment to Ukraine under NATO auspices is currently being mooted in Europe, will be eliminated should any appear at the frontlines without Russia’s consent, Russian Security Council Deputy Chairman Dimity Medvedev said on Friday.'' https://tass.com/politics/1597935 I think it's fair to say it would probably start WW3. That would never happen. No Russian regular army unit would engage NATO forces on the opposite side of the Russian border. It would be tantamount to suicide and another Russian humiliation. Russian mercenaries would be a joke. 1 1 Top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unusual Tournament Posted June 8 #13 Share Posted June 8 4 hours ago, Occult1 said: We have no business in Ukraine unless we decide to enter the war. NATO troops in Ukraine are a legitimate target for Russia. It's really not hard to comprehend. Well that’s not entirely true. Even though Ukraine is not part of NATO Europe and America do have skin in the conflict. Russia is no longer scary and America is a monster. Im not privy to any great strategy BUT American escalation is incremental and meant to stop this war. Putin has gotten the message and it’s time for this war to end 1 Top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Essan Posted June 8 #14 Share Posted June 8 4 hours ago, Occult1 said: We have no business in Ukraine unless we decide to enter the war. NATO troops in Ukraine are a legitimate target for Russia. It's really not hard to comprehend. That's the case only if Putin owns Ukraine. Otherwise it's no different to saying Russian troops in Malawi are a legitimate target for Bolivia. 5 Top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatetopa Posted June 8 #15 Share Posted June 8 11 hours ago, Occult1 said: We have no business in Ukraine I agree. Why are you there? 1 1 Top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+and-then Posted June 8 #16 Share Posted June 8 12 hours ago, pellinore said: the countries closest to Russia (Poland, the Baltic States) and even Germany, France and the UK have been told that they may be next. This war is into its second year. Russia and Ukraine have suffered massive losses and by all accounts, Russia is so logistically depleted that they're scrambling to replace much of their equipment and rebuild their forces. How does that reality square with assuming they'll also be a threat to the rest of Europe? Had Putin not stuck his hand in a buzz saw in Ukraine, he may well have decided to keep nibbling away to rebuild his dream of a resurgent USSR. Clearly, he screwed up. If his ambitions haven't been blunted by now then world war may be inescapable but I see no reason to launch one ourselves. If most here are correct, in the coming days and weeks we should see Ukraine pushing Russians back significantly, possibly even out of much of the east of Ukraine. IF that assessment is even close to accurate, why would NATO's newest members be growling about guaranteeing membership- or else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odas Posted June 8 #17 Share Posted June 8 13 hours ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said: AANNDD there we are. The Rubicon. Been nice knowing ya, folks. Ah, you don't have to worry, unless you did not get the covid vaccine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Occult1 Posted June 8 #18 Share Posted June 8 (edited) 7 hours ago, Essan said: That's the case only if Putin owns Ukraine. Otherwise it's no different to saying Russian troops in Malawi are a legitimate target for Bolivia. Given the fact that NATO is on Ukraine's side in this conflict, if NATO countries send troops on the ground in Ukraine, it will be as a force that is de facto against Russia. This would be a trigger for WW3. Edited June 8 by Occult1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Occult1 Posted June 8 #19 Share Posted June 8 (edited) 7 hours ago, Unusual Tournament said: Russia is no longer scary and America is a monster. I'm not convinced of that. Russia still has a lot of capabilities that they are holding back and it seems both the U.S. and NATO are very careful not to engage directly with Russia. Edited June 8 by Occult1 1 Top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzz_Light_Year Posted June 8 #20 Share Posted June 8 4 minutes ago, Occult1 said: I'm not convinced of that. Russia still has a lot of capabilities that they are holding back and it seems both the U.S. and NATO are very careful not to engage directly with Russia. And they have all of the capabilities to withdraw back into their own borders and stay there. Not what you had in mind? Imagine that. 3 Top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stiff Posted June 8 #21 Share Posted June 8 15 minutes ago, Occult1 said: This would be a trigger for WW3. Ah. That old chestnut again. It appears that anything that would go against letting russia get what it wants is a 'trigger for WW3." We've heard it all before. 2 Top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Occult1 Posted June 8 #22 Share Posted June 8 Just now, Stiff said: Ah. That old chestnut again. It appears that anything that would go against letting russia get what it wants is a 'trigger for WW3." We've heard it all before. Negotiation and diplomacy are the only way to end this conflict. 1 Top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stiff Posted June 8 #23 Share Posted June 8 16 minutes ago, Occult1 said: Negotiation and diplomacy are the only way to end this conflict. That would be the best way but it certainly isn't the only way. 2 Top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartan max2 Posted June 8 #24 Share Posted June 8 24 minutes ago, Occult1 said: Negotiation and diplomacy are the only way to end this conflict. This rumored "NATO willing to send troops". Sounds like a negotiation/threat tactic to me TBH. I highly doubt anyone will be sending troops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Occult1 Posted June 8 #25 Share Posted June 8 9 minutes ago, Stiff said: That would be the best way but it certainly isn't the only way. A global nuclear conflagration might be another one but certainly not desirable for mankind. 1 Top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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