US gun crime: why tourists are being warned to avoid and beware

[Still Waters]

The year 2023 is on track to be the worst in recent history for mass shootings in the US, according to the Gun Violence Archive database. Some commentators are questioning whether security fears surrounding gun violence and mass shootings could keep international fans away from the 2026 FIFA World Cup in Los Angeles.

No other developed nation has mass shootings at the same scale or frequency as the US. Estimates suggest that Americans own 393 million of the 857 million civilian guns available, around 46% of the world’s civilian gun ownership.

Whenever another mass shooting takes place, foreign politicians and media react with incomprehension that American gun laws differ so much from those of most other western nations. Thirteen US states allow open carrying of a gun without a permit, and 25 (soon to be be 26) don’t require a permit to wear a concealed gun in public.

Several nations have now issued their citizens with US travel warnings relating to gun violence.

Continued:

https://theconversation.com/us-gun-crime-why-tourists-are-being-warned-to-avoid-and-beware-205906

[+and-then]

This seems like a reasonable concern, at least it sounds reasonable but the reality is that only a tiny% of gun owners commit crimes with them.  But, if someone is really concerned and fearful then by all means, they should a different destination.

['Walt' E. Kurtz]

Interestingly European societies that come close to US rates of gun ownership per 100 people but with hunting rifles and shotguns is Finland and Norway they are also regarded among the safest societies internationally. 

 

 

 

[Alchopwn]

2 hours ago, Still Waters said:

Whenever another mass shooting takes place, foreign politicians and media react with incomprehension that American gun laws differ so much from those of most other western nations. Thirteen US states allow open carrying of a gun without a permit, and 25 (soon to be be 26) don’t require a permit to wear a concealed gun in public.

Most people are unaware that only 2 states require a permit for a flame thrower and open carry is assumed.  I always carry a lit flamethrower when I go shopping at Maceys with my gf.  Mainly so I can end it all in a police shoot out when we hit hour 72.

[Edumakated]

4 hours ago, 'Walt' E. Kurtz said:

Interestingly European societies that come close to US rates of gun ownership per 100 people but with hunting rifles and shotguns is Finland and Norway they are also regarded among the safest societies internationally. 

 

 

 

Demographics.   Finland and norway dont have a large poor black population which is where most gun violenece in the states is concentrated.  If you remove black population from stats, us homicide rate is similar to euro countries.

 

[Hawken]

Homicides in Chicago by gangs. Chicago Gang Violence: By The Numbers - ABC News

[Edumakated]

6 hours ago, Still Waters said:

The year 2023 is on track to be the worst in recent history for mass shootings in the US, according to the Gun Violence Archive database. Some commentators are questioning whether security fears surrounding gun violence and mass shootings could keep international fans away from the 2026 FIFA World Cup in Los Angeles.

No other developed nation has mass shootings at the same scale or frequency as the US. Estimates suggest that Americans own 393 million of the 857 million civilian guns available, around 46% of the world’s civilian gun ownership.

Whenever another mass shooting takes place, foreign politicians and media react with incomprehension that American gun laws differ so much from those of most other western nations. Thirteen US states allow open carrying of a gun without a permit, and 25 (soon to be be 26) don’t require a permit to wear a concealed gun in public.

Several nations have now issued their citizens with US travel warnings relating to gun violence.

Continued:

https://theconversation.com/us-gun-crime-why-tourists-are-being-warned-to-avoid-and-beware-205906

Most mass shootings in the US are gang related.  The reality is that the random mass shooting like at school or work place are not very common.  However, anti-gun activist like to use a broad definition that encompasses any shooting of four or more people and qualify it as a mass shooting.  It is similar to how gun deaths statistics will often include both homicides and suicides even though to two are very different.

Shootings will be more common in the US simply because we have so many guns and people.  It is just statistical probability.  It is like saying people who drive more are more likely to die in a car accident....   however, the statistics cover up that most gun homicides is among people who know each other and specifically, street thugs by in large.  In addition, it is largely concentrated in poor black neighborhoods among males under 25 years old.  In other words, unless you are a black male under 25 engaged in criminal street behavior, the odds of you being killed by a firearm is practically ZERO.

[Agent0range]

8 minutes ago, Edumakated said:

Most mass shootings in the US are gang related.

That's not even close to true.

Quote

Within its downloadable database of 115 shootings from 2019-1982, Mother Jones includes four from the Chicago area: the Mercy Hospital shooting (2018), the attack at Northern Illinois University in DeKalb (2008), the shooting at Navistar in Melrose Park (2001) and the shooting at Henry Pratt Co. in Aurora (2019).

https://www.cbsnews.com/chicago/news/what-is-a-mass-shooting-and-does-chicagos-gang-violence-apply/

[Edumakated]

2 minutes ago, Agent0range said:

That's not even close to true.

https://www.cbsnews.com/chicago/news/what-is-a-mass-shooting-and-does-chicagos-gang-violence-apply/

The definition of a mass shooting varies by organization, but typically the FBI says "an event in which one or more individuals are “actively engaged in killing or attempting to kill people in a populated area. Implicit in this definition is the shooter’s use of a firearm.” The FBI has not set a minimum number of casualties to qualify an event as a mass shooting, but U.S. statute (the Investigative Assistance for Violent Crimes Act of 2012) defines a “mass killing” as “3 or more killings in a single incident.” 

There are "mass shootings" practically every weekend and almost all of them are gang / street related.

Notice your database though is literally going back 40 years and 115 shootings or a whopping 3 per year...

[Doc Socks Junior]

Yeah, the problem is that multiple categories are mixed and matched when talking about 'mass shootings' depending on what point one is trying to make.

[Edumakated]

22 minutes ago, Doc Socks Junior said:

Yeah, the problem is that multiple categories are mixed and matched when talking about 'mass shootings' depending on what point one is trying to make.

Yup.

Under the broadest definition, most are definitely gang related.  For example, according to this article there have 202 in 2023.  

US on track to set record in 2023 for mass killings after series of shootings | US gun control | The Guardian

They are just tracking any shooting with four or more deaths.

It appears the Mother Jones database attempted to pick out the random nut job shootings as they are claiming about 145 shootings over 40 years which is a significant difference from what is being claimed in the Guardian article.  The irony though is that if you narrow it down to just the random nut job type shooting, it doesn't look like as big of an issue numerically.  For example, the Mother Jones database that was linked to is covering 40 years and has 145 shootings.  I'm assuming they just compiled all the random nut job shootings they could find by year.  So 145 shootings over 40 years is an average of 3.6 per year.  No mass shooting is good, but 3.6 mass shootings per year in a nation with 350 million people and probably a billion firearms floating around, it doesn't seem like an unusual amount statistically imho.  With that many people and firearms, you are bound to have a few nutters at some point statistically.

[Tatetopa]

7 hours ago, and-then said:

This seems like a reasonable concern, at least it sounds reasonable but the reality is that only a tiny% of gun owners commit crimes with them. 

Yes, a very tiny %  but, it is some of those people who  actively seek out tourists as targets.  

[Edumakated]

Just had a mass shooting in my community.  4 shot and 1 fatality.  In a funeral procession on top of it!

Gang members here in Chicago have this thing where they have these rowdy funeral processions - hanging out the car, driving like idiots, weed smoke, loud music.  Sounds like the funeral was for some gang member and the "opps" decided to shoot it up.

 

[Hankenhunter]

Tourists are encouraged to bring their own body armor, pressure bandages, and under no circumstances make eye contact with any citizens you meet. 

[Agent0range]

6 hours ago, Edumakated said:

The definition of a mass shooting varies by organization, but typically the FBI says "an event in which one or more individuals are “actively engaged in killing or attempting to kill people in a populated area. Implicit in this definition is the shooter’s use of a firearm.” The FBI has not set a minimum number of casualties to qualify an event as a mass shooting, but U.S. statute (the Investigative Assistance for Violent Crimes Act of 2012) defines a “mass killing” as “3 or more killings in a single incident.” 

There are "mass shootings" practically every weekend and almost all of them are gang / street related.

Notice your database though is literally going back 40 years and 115 shootings or a whopping 3 per year...

OK, so you can link something there, but you can't link something saying that gang shootings are the majority of mass shootings?  Link it.  Thanks.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

20 minutes ago, Hankenhunter said:

Tourists are encouraged to bring their own body armor, pressure bandages, and under no circumstances make eye contact with any citizens you meet. 

And remember, they are more scared of you than you are of them. 

[Tatetopa]

57 minutes ago, Edumakated said:

Just had a mass shooting in my community.  4 shot and 1 fatality.  In a funeral procession on top of it!

Gang members here in Chicago have this thing where they have these rowdy funeral processions - hanging out the car, driving like idiots, weed smoke, loud music.  Sounds like the funeral was for some gang member and the "opps" decided to shoot it up.

 

Thanks.  I feel bad for you man.  To be a member of a group that causes most of the violence in the United States must be depressing.  What saved you from the gang life?

[Edumakated]

15 hours ago, Agent0range said:

OK, so you can link something there, but you can't link something saying that gang shootings are the majority of mass shootings?  Link it.  Thanks.

You should be able to deduce that from the data on total homicides, total number of mass shootings as broadly defined, and total number of more narrowly defined mass shootings of random nutjobs....  In the post above, I pointed out that two different sources have vastly different numbers of mass shootings.  One is looking at all mass shootings while one is just looking at the random nutjob type.  The random nutjob types are not as common as the media would have you believe as demonstrated by the link in that previous post where they averaged 3.6 per year over 40 years.  Therefore, one can reasonable conclude the vast majority of mass shootings are gang related (as are most homicides) when looking at overall homicide data and large number mass shootings when more broadly defined.

It isn't something that specifically called out because researchers haven't studied it to my knowledge with that point in mind.  However, if you do a little googling on gang mass shootings, you'll find plenty of info and data to be able to draw a reasonable and logical conclusion.  For example, here is an article regarding mass shootings over Memorial Day weekend.  When you look at the details of each one, it is clear they are all gang / thug related shootings.

8 killed, 71 injured in mass shootings over long holiday weekend (msn.com)

[Edumakated]

15 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

Thanks.  I feel bad for you man.  To be a member of a group that causes most of the violence in the United States must be depressing.  What saved you from the gang life?

To be frank, it is embarrassing....  

I had a lower middle class life.  Father was a cop and mother was secretary.  I guess what saved me more than anything was a two parent stable home. I certainly grew up around people running in the streets and certainly could have made some bad choices.  When I look back at friends / acquaintances who made bad choices, almost all of them were raised in single parent homes led by the mother.  Further, my parents did everything in their power to keep me away from "hood rat" culture.  They got me into alternative sports that kept me way too busy and far away from the hoodlums in my neighborhood.  They pulled me out of my crappy local high school to get bussed up to a wealthy majority white high school on other side of town as part of a desegregation program.

I believe people tend to conform to the people they are around.  If you are around nothing but hood rats and losers, you are likely to be a hood rat loser.  If you are around people who value education and success, you are likely to value education and success.  My parents did everything they could to ensure I was around people who were likely to be successful.

[Agent0range]

15 minutes ago, Edumakated said:

You should be able to deduce that from the data on total homicides, total number of mass shootings as broadly defined, and total number of more narrowly defined mass shootings of random nutjobs....  In the post above, I pointed out that two different sources have vastly different numbers of mass shootings.  One is looking at all mass shootings while one is just looking at the random nutjob type.  The random nutjob types are not as common as the media would have you believe as demonstrated by the link in that previous post where they averaged 3.6 per year over 40 years.  Therefore, one can reasonable conclude the vast majority of mass shootings are gang related (as are most homicides) when looking at overall homicide data and large number mass shootings when more broadly defined.

It isn't something that specifically called out because researchers haven't studied it to my knowledge with that point in mind.  However, if you do a little googling on gang mass shootings, you'll find plenty of info and data to be able to draw a reasonable and logical conclusion.  For example, here is an article regarding mass shootings over Memorial Day weekend.  When you look at the details of each one, it is clear they are all gang / thug related shootings.

8 killed, 71 injured in mass shootings over long holiday weekend (msn.com)

So you can't find proof.  Got it.

[Edumakated]

7 minutes ago, Agent0range said:

So you can't find proof.  Got it.

No, you apparently can't think logically...  I gave you plenty of proof, you just apparently don't have enough brain processing power to come to a rational conclusion....

[Agent0range]

3 minutes ago, Edumakated said:

No, you apparently can't think logically...  I gave you plenty of proof, you just apparently don't have enough brain processing power to come to a rational conclusion....

No.  You gave ZERO proof.  Sorry, but I am not going to reasonably conclude that anything you say is fact without links to back it up.  

[Doc Socks Junior]

13 minutes ago, Agent0range said:

So you can't find proof.  Got it.

You're really being myopic here. And I get why.

You're very tied to one definition of mass shooting, and think that proves your point. However, as I pointed out earlier, there are multiple definitions of mass shooting which get used depending on what people's end goal is. Here, dig in.

https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shooting

[Agent0range]

3 minutes ago, Doc Socks Junior said:

You're really being myopic here. And I get why.

You're very tied to one definition of mass shooting, and think that proves your point. However, as I pointed out earlier, there are multiple definitions of mass shooting which get used depending on what people's end goal is. Here, dig in.

https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shooting

Explain how your chart shows that the majority of mass shootings are gang related.

[Edumakated]

8 minutes ago, Doc Socks Junior said:

You're really being myopic here. And I get why.

You're very tied to one definition of mass shooting, and think that proves your point. However, as I pointed out earlier, there are multiple definitions of mass shooting which get used depending on what people's end goal is. Here, dig in.

https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shooting

He is just not very bright...

If i go outside and the ground is wet, i can reasonably conclude it rained...  his assertion is if weatherman didnt say it rained then we cant prove it....