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Blow for British businesses as EU rules out renegotiating Brexit trade deal


pellinore

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The EU’s Brexit chief has ruled out renegotiating Britain’s trade deal until 2026, dashing hopes it could be improved and prevent businesses fleeing the UK.

Maroš Šefčovič said that the trade and cooperation agreement had only been in force for two years and was not yet being used to its full potential.

The deal, signed by Boris Johnson on 30 December 2020, has been criticised by business groups for increasing costs and bureaucracy compared to membership of the EU single market and customs union.

“We have received quite a lot of questions and I’ve seen that there is increased interest in the TCA review. As far as our calendar goes, I think that it’s more for 2026,” Mr Šefčovič told the EU-UK forum on Monday.

Blow for British businesses as EU rules out renegotiating Brexit trade deal for years | The Independent

Edited by pellinore
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Lets not forget Brussels said the same about the Northern Ireland protocol. :yes:

It would not be changed they said, behind waging fingers, and the UK was breaking international law if it did not follow rules in full. :gun:

And then the EU renegotiated. There is now the Windsor Framework. 

So while they say one thing their actions show their abilities to force a situation to their own advantage does not live up to the rhetoric.

 

Not as the UK wants or needs to rejoin the Single market or customs union. ;)

 

 

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Another EU trading rule that Brussels will most likely have to change as it will cost their car businesses a fortune. :yes:

 "EU carmakers could lose £3.69bn due to post-Brexit tariffs.

European automakers have said they could lose €4.3bn (£3.69bn) and cut production of nearly 500,000 vehicles, if the EU does not delay putting in place tariffs between the EU and UK.

According to the Financial Times, the European Automobile Manufacturers Association (Acea), has said that China would benefit if the EU does not agree to delay changes.

It comes after a number of car manufacturers with a major presence in the UK warned the government that ‘rules of origin’ could greatly damage production.

The EU is a major EV export market for Britain, but the bloc still sends far more vehicles to the UK and as a result, would have to pay far more.

De Vries told the Financial Times that the UK is the “number one” market for European carmakers, with a quarter of EVs delivered to the island." 

 

It looks like the original tit for tat rules of origin arrangement will have to be put on ice. :yes: Despite the UK not being in the single market or customs union. ;)

https://www.cityam.com/eu-carmakers-could-lose-3-69bn-due-to-post-brexit-tariffs/

 

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54 minutes ago, L.A.T.1961 said:

Lets not forget Brussels said the same about the Northern Ireland protocol. :yes:

It would not be changed they said, behind waging fingers, and the UK was breaking international law if it did not follow rules in full. :gun:

And then the EU renegotiated. There is now the Windsor Framework. 

So while they say one thing their actions show their abilities to force a situation to their own advantage does not live up to the rhetoric.

 

Not as the UK wants or needs to rejoin the Single market or customs union. ;)

 

 

The Windsor Framework IS the protocol! It is what the UK signed up for, and then tried to renege on, against the law!

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45 minutes ago, L.A.T.1961 said:

Another EU trading rule that Brussels will most likely have to change as it will cost their car businesses a fortune. :yes:

 "EU carmakers could lose £3.69bn due to post-Brexit tariffs.

European automakers have said they could lose €4.3bn (£3.69bn) and cut production of nearly 500,000 vehicles, if the EU does not delay putting in place tariffs between the EU and UK.

According to the Financial Times, the European Automobile Manufacturers Association (Acea), has said that China would benefit if the EU does not agree to delay changes.

It comes after a number of car manufacturers with a major presence in the UK warned the government that ‘rules of origin’ could greatly damage production.

The EU is a major EV export market for Britain, but the bloc still sends far more vehicles to the UK and as a result, would have to pay far more.

De Vries told the Financial Times that the UK is the “number one” market for European carmakers, with a quarter of EVs delivered to the island." 

 

It looks like the original tit for tat rules of origin arrangement will have to be put on ice. :yes: Despite the UK not being in the single market or customs union. ;)

https://www.cityam.com/eu-carmakers-could-lose-3-69bn-due-to-post-brexit-tariffs/

 

And the UK is losing £100 billion a year through not being in the SM or CU. Nothing will make you admit Brexit is trashing the UK economy, will it? Even Sunak, arch-Brexiter admitted it when he said NI benefitted from being in both the SM and the UK market, and even the arch-moron Farage has said it is a failure.

Some voters, we should admit, enthused about Johnson because he made them laugh. I am haunted by the memory of a woman who told a BBC radio interviewer back in 2018: “I want Boris to become Tory leader because he will make politics fun!” But politics, and especially government, is not meant to be fun.

Least of all can it be treated as comedy amid today’s national dramas, of which the cost of living crisis is only foremost. Some of us predicted it would be the poor, and not the tycoons who backed Brexit, who would pay its brutal economic price. So it is proving.....

In the years ahead it will be painful to behold Johnson earning millions from pier-end performances, while the British people become poorer. But that is surely better than allowing him any further role in our governance, which he should never have been granted in the first place.

To move on, consign Boris Johnson and his vanity to spam (archive.ph)

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13 minutes ago, pellinore said:

The Windsor Framework IS the protocol! It is what the UK signed up for, and then tried to renege on, against the law!

Both sides decided a name change, to the Windsor Framework, was required to match the concessions made by the EU.

It is not the original NIP. 

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pellinore  "Nothing will make you admit Brexit is trashing the UK economy, will it?"

 

When I see the UK in recession which its not, and Germany which is, doing well, then I might be more likely to concede the point. 

But comparisons with similar others don't seem to figure in your estimate of UK performance. ;) 

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45 minutes ago, L.A.T.1961 said:

Both sides decided a name change, to the Windsor Framework, was required to match the concessions made by the EU.

It is not the original NIP. 

Then ask yourself why the DUP is so vociferously opposed to the Windsor Framework.

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38 minutes ago, L.A.T.1961 said:

When I see the UK in recession which its not, and Germany which is, doing well, then I might be more likely to concede the point. 

But comparisons with similar others don't seem to figure in your estimate of UK performance. ;) 

I always make comparisons with similar economies. No point doing otherwise. Most major economies are either in technical recession or on the brink of it- just look at the US.

What matters in their potential for growth and to attract investment. The German economy is reeling under the need to suddenly change from reliance on Putin's gas-  and they have just about dealt with it.

What is the UK reeling under?- oh yes, our old friend beginning with 'B'. How  long will it be before we can confront that and deal with it?

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6 minutes ago, pellinore said:

I always make comparisons with similar economies. No point doing otherwise. Most major economies are either in technical recession or on the brink of it- just look at the US.

What matters in their potential for growth and to attract investment. The German economy is reeling under the need to suddenly change from reliance on Putin's gas-  and they have just about dealt with it.

What is the UK reeling under?- oh yes, our old friend beginning with 'B'. How  long will it be before we can confront that and deal with it?

The black knight reminds me of you:

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13 hours ago, Electric Scooter said:

The black knight reminds me of you:

No, that is the view of Brexiters, who claim things are not as bad as Remoaners predicted. That is all they can fall back on. We are not reduced to eating lumps of coal yet.

In 2016 before Brexit Britain had it good:Low tax and low debt,Civic rights and freedoms were protected, International reputation,Power coming from a seat at the high table, Influence with the US.Peace in Northern Ireland, Fantastic credit score, Best growth in the G7 and in the EU, Public services that actually worked, Low boat migration, Negligible third world migration, Short NHS waiting times, and Independence and Sovereignty.

I don't know why Brexiters don't just admit they lost. They won the referendum but have just about trashed the country. They should rest content with that, and not try to justify it or inflict more harm.

 

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  • 5 months later...
On 6/12/2023 at 4:57 PM, L.A.T.1961 said:

Another EU trading rule that Brussels will most likely have to change as it will cost their car businesses a fortune. :yes:

 "EU carmakers could lose £3.69bn due to post-Brexit tariffs.

European automakers have said they could lose €4.3bn (£3.69bn) and cut production of nearly 500,000 vehicles, if the EU does not delay putting in place tariffs between the EU and UK.

According to the Financial Times, the European Automobile Manufacturers Association (Acea), has said that China would benefit if the EU does not agree to delay changes.

It comes after a number of car manufacturers with a major presence in the UK warned the government that ‘rules of origin’ could greatly damage production.

The EU is a major EV export market for Britain, but the bloc still sends far more vehicles to the UK and as a result, would have to pay far more.

De Vries told the Financial Times that the UK is the “number one” market for European carmakers, with a quarter of EVs delivered to the island." 

 

It looks like the original tit for tat rules of origin arrangement will have to be put on ice. :yes: Despite the UK not being in the single market or customs union. ;)

https://www.cityam.com/eu-carmakers-could-lose-3-69bn-due-to-post-brexit-tariffs/

 

Just a quick update on the Brexit tariffs to be imposed on electric vehicle sales between Britain and EU.

They have been kicked into the EU's political long grass. 

France to back last-minute delay to Brexit tariffs on electric vehicles

Despite -

"In theory, the EU's executive should stand by the terms of the post-Brexit deal.

In the Brexit end game, Brussels considered it vital not to allow the U.K. to undermine the EU’s single market.

EU diplomat said a postponement would be such a “political shock” from the Commission that it was unthinkable."

 

So to undermine the EU’s single market or not the UK will not pay tariffs to send cars to EU. 

The realities of trade outweighing politics, a real possibility ignored by some. 

https://www.politico.eu/article/france-delay-brexit-tariffs-electric-vehicles-uk/ 

https://www.politico.eu/article/france-isolated-post-brexit-electric-vehicle-tariffs/

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On 6/12/2023 at 4:41 PM, L.A.T.1961 said:

Lets not forget Brussels said the same about the Northern Ireland protocol. :yes:

It would not be changed they said, behind waging fingers, and the UK was breaking international law if it did not follow rules in full. :gun:

And then the EU renegotiated. There is now the Windsor Framework. 

So while they say one thing their actions show their abilities to force a situation to their own advantage does not live up to the rhetoric.

 

Not as the UK wants or needs to rejoin the Single market or customs union. ;)

The Windsor Framework is the original deal. It was the UK that was proposing to break the law, but Sunak wisely capitulated. It is only the DUP that is still refusing to attend Stormont, because they believe there should be no border between NI and GB.

To put it simply, there has to be a border between the EU and the UK because of our leaving the SM.

Because the island of Ireland is now half in and half out to the SM, the border has to be either a land border or a sea border in the Irish Sea. Johnson agreed a sea border- which we now have. The Windsor Framework did not change that, it just facilitates easier trade. A land border would almost certainly re-ignite the "troubles". So Sunak capitulated, just as Starmer is proposing SPS agreements to make easier trade over the channel, as Johnson's TCA was half-baked, nor ready cooked.

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7 hours ago, L.A.T.1961 said:

Just a quick update on the Brexit tariffs to be imposed on electric vehicle sales between Britain and EU.

They have been kicked into the EU's political long grass. 

France to back last-minute delay to Brexit tariffs on electric vehicles

Despite -

"In theory, the EU's executive should stand by the terms of the post-Brexit deal.

In the Brexit end game, Brussels considered it vital not to allow the U.K. to undermine the EU’s single market.

EU diplomat said a postponement would be such a “political shock” from the Commission that it was unthinkable."

 

So to undermine the EU’s single market or not the UK will not pay tariffs to send cars to EU. 

The realities of trade outweighing politics, a real possibility ignored by some. 

https://www.politico.eu/article/france-delay-brexit-tariffs-electric-vehicles-uk/ 

https://www.politico.eu/article/france-isolated-post-brexit-electric-vehicle-tariffs/

Well, good news all round. If we were still in the SM none of this would be a concern as we would be sharing prosperity, not trying to avoid harm to each other. I just don't get where Brexiters loyalties lie- do they not believe we are Europeans and want to ally with nations the other side of the world instead?

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3 minutes ago, pellinore said:

 

To put it simply, there has to be a border between the EU and the UK because of our leaving the SM.

 

The border could be between Ireland and the EU. It would protect the single market and if UK/NI refused to put a border between NI and rest of UK that is what would have to happen.

If Brussels still believed that goods going from UK into NI might end up in the EU then they would be forced to create an Ireland EU barrier.

Or they could just decide to ignore the issue as its one of their own political making, used to put pressure on the UK to abandon the brexit result not because of the volume of goods.

As we see from the car tariff situation above when it suits Brussels the problem is suddenly not such a big deal. 

The single market will not suddenly disintegrate despite taking cars from a third country and this logic could be applied to all trade.

It sets a precedent but the EU will ignore this.

 

 I just don't get where Brexiters loyalties lie- do they not believe we are Europeans and want to ally with nations the other side of the world instead?

The one thing does not exclude the other, we are still working and trading with the EU. 

But the idea that we must also have a close political union is now gone. Its this that causes problems in Brussels as it might be that the UK adapts and does better

It looks better if everybody does about the same in the region and no one nation, except Germany obviously, does well and puts pressure on the rest to change political ideology.

A race where no one wins is also one where no one loses. Political pressure on Governments is reduced. The masses have one less reason to rebel.

The UK is now a lose cannon the last thing the EU wants. 😉

It will do everything it can to drag us back.

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4 minutes ago, L.A.T.1961 said:

The border could be between Ireland and the EU. It would protect the single market and if UK/NI refused to put a border between NI and rest of UK that is what would have to happen.

Don't be ridiculous. Ireland is in the EU; you are proposing a border between the EU and the EU? How would that help? And there can't be a border between NI and Ireland. It would be unthinkable. Look at the trouble in Gaza and Israel- no one would risk reigniting the Troubles- no one.

Even the totally mad idea of leaving the ECHR (aligning the UK with Russia and Belarus) would undermine the GFA- it is a non-starter. The US and UN would sanction the UK into oblivion.

No responsible politician in the West would risk destabilising peace in Europe to appease nutters like the DUP, the ERG and the fascists like Farage. Sunak was put in his place when he took the PM job, he is supposed to repair the damage Johnson did to Europe. That's why his first act was to introduce the Windsor Framework. No PM wants to be remembered for destruction when they were in office.

 

 

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2 hours ago, pellinore said:

Don't be ridiculous. Ireland is in the EU; you are proposing a border between the EU and the EU?

And N. Ireland is part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain, so why should there be a border between the UK and the UK? 🤦

2 hours ago, pellinore said:

No responsible politician in the West would risk destabilising peace in Europe to appease nutters like the DUP, the ERG and the fascists like Farage.

Strange that Barmier and that complete and utter EU federalist maniac Verhoffhishead were filmed discussing between them their deliberate intention to weaponise the Irish border in order to punish the UK for their vote in behind the scenes footage filmed during the Brexit negotiations with the UK in the BBC documentary 'Brexit: Behind Closed Doors' then eh, because in their totally irrational minds a threat to peace on the island of Ireland is the price the UK should "pay" for even daring to leave their precious little club.

The real truth is that your masters in Brussels have decided to use the Island of Ireland as a political football to be kicked around whenever it suits them in order to achieve what "they" want, with absolutely zero thoughts to the people in Ireland.

The EU is playing with fire in Ireland and I utterly despise them for it, but it just proves to me the sort of people they are, totally power driven, and they do not care one jot for Ireland or N Ireland, let alone the Good Friday Agreement, to which they were not even signatories, just added later as 'observers'.

At the end of the day, it's up to the EU to protect their precious Single Market, not us.

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2 hours ago, pellinore said:

Even the totally mad idea of leaving the ECHR (aligning the UK with Russia and Belarus)

Strange how you conveniently "forgot" to mention that we would also be aligning the UK with your beloved EU as well, because the EU itself as a body has still not signed up to the 'European Convention on Human Rights' (ECHR), even though the EU's accession to the ECHR is a legal obligation of 'The Lisbon Treaty'. 🤔

Article 6(2) of 'The Lisbon Treaty' requires that the European Union itself as a body must sign up to the 'European Convention on Human Rights' (ECHR), but after an ECJ ruling in December 2014, negotiations for EU accession stalled.

In July 2013 the unelected European Commission approached the ECJ to seek its opinion on whether ECHR accession was compatible with EU law. In December 2014 the EU's Supreme Court ruled that the bloc itself as a body cannot join the 'European Convention on Human Rights', because - get this.... to do so would undermine its own laws and give an external body the power to review the application of EU law. How's that for irony eh.!! 😂

Quote: "Accession is liable to upset the underlying balance of the EU and undermine the autonomy of EU law" the court said in its ruling, adding that, quote: "In light of the problems identified, the Court concludes that the draft agreement on the accession of the EU to the ECHR is incompatible with EU law."

So not only would we be aligning the UK with Russia and Belarus by leaving the ECHR, your beloved EU itself as a body is already aligned with Russia and Belarus by not being in the ECHR to begin with. And here's me thinking you were all for the UK being more aligned with your beloved EU. 🤔

👇👇👇👇👇👇👇

https://www.icj.org/eu-court-opinion-a-major-setback-for-human-rights-in-europe/

Edited by Destination Unknown
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5 hours ago, Destination Unknown said:

And N. Ireland is part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain, so why should there be a border between the UK and the UK? 🤦

At the end of the day, it's up to the EU to protect their precious Single Market, not us.

Because we left the single market! You do realise that, don't you? There has to be border somewhere, either on the island of Ireland or in the North Sea. (It can't be between France and Ireland as LAT suggested, because both countries are in the EU).

It can't be on the island of Ireland, because that would create customs checks between Ireland and NI. So that leaves- where? The North Sea.

And of course the EU will protect the SM- it is in there interests to do so- it was the UK behind the biometric checks when we were a member. Just imagine how we would benefit if we were a member- no NIP, easier trade with our neighbouring countries, and no hundreds of thousands of permanent immigrants each year as we would benefit from the SM labour market, meaning short term employment when needed, benefiting workers and employers alike. You should join me in pushing to rejoin asap!

It amazes me that some people still support Brexit without realising what it means! 

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50 minutes ago, pellinore said:

Because we left the single market! You do realise that, don't you? There has to be border somewhere, either on the island of Ireland or in the North Sea. (It can't be between France and Ireland as LAT suggested, because both countries are in the EU).

It can't be on the island of Ireland, because that would create customs checks between Ireland and NI. So that leaves- where? The North Sea.

And of course the EU will protect the SM- it is in there interests to do so- it was the UK behind the biometric checks when we were a member. Just imagine how we would benefit if we were a member- no NIP, easier trade with our neighbouring countries, and no hundreds of thousands of permanent immigrants each year as we would benefit from the SM labour market, meaning short term employment when needed, benefiting workers and employers alike. You should join me in pushing to rejoin asap!

It amazes me that some people still support Brexit without realising what it means! 

Yes, we left the Single Market, so why should it be our problem to figure out how the EU protects their internal market then?

Why do you obviously have a problem with the EU having a border between their internal market just because France and Ireland are part of the EU, but yet you're obviously perfectly fine with the UK having a border between its own internal market with Great Britain and Northern Ireland, even though both countries are part of the UK? 🤦

Obviously you think it's perfectly fine for your beloved EU to protect it's internal market, so why do you arrogantly think the same thing shouldn't also apply to the UK regarding its own internal market then?

It amazes me why some people still support that European political union folly based in Brussels over and above the UK (your own country).

Oh, and Italy’s Puglia Farms Say They Need Another 100,000 Seasonal Workers From Third Countries. So when did Italy leave the EU then? 🤔 👇👇👇👇👇

https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/news/italys-puglia-farms-say-they-need-another-100000-seasonal-workers-from-third-countries/

Edited by Destination Unknown
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45 minutes ago, Destination Unknown said:

Why do you obviously have a problem with the EU having a border between their internal market just because France and Ireland are part of the EU, but yet you're obviously perfectly fine with the UK having a border between its own internal market with Great Britain and Northern Ireland, even though both countries are part of the UK? 🤦

https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/news/italys-puglia-farms-say-they-need-another-100000-seasonal-workers-from-third-countries/

What would be the point of a border between two countries in the single market? They might just as well put it between France and Germany. Wouldn't help us, would it? Lol.

The UK agreed a border between NI and GB. I'm not fine with it, it is just it was the only solution. There has to be a trade border- why do you think there are border points between the US and Canada? If there were no international borders there would be economic chaos. Imagine the UK opened its borders to all and sundry- all sorts of cheap, unlicensed and fraudulent goods would be able to enter our market. Actually, the UK is a bad example, as we have opened our borders since 2021 (Rees Mogg says it would lead to self-harm otherwise, as we are in such a poor trading position).

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18 minutes ago, pellinore said:

What would be the point of a border between two countries in the single market?

So you agree there is no point of a border between Great Britain and Northern Ireland then. Right, got it.

18 minutes ago, pellinore said:

The UK agreed a border between NI and GB.

Wrong. Remoaner-In-Disguise Theresa May agreed to a border between NI and GB.

18 minutes ago, pellinore said:

I'm not fine with it, it is just it was the only solution.

No it wasn't. The only real solution is to declare the entirety of N Ireland as a 'Free Trade Zone'. This would then eliminate any requirement for the UK to impose a customs border going into N Ireland from not only the Republic of Ireland (as per the GFA), but also going into N Ireland from mainland UK, with a customs border only needed going from N Ireland into mainland UK (on the UK side), and of course going from N Ireland into the Republic of Ireland, which is obviously not a UK problem anyway.

Your beloved EU then has to deal with an open border (as per the GFA) between itself and a 'Free Trade Zone'. If the EU does not seal the border, then goods that would normally attract tariffs would flow into the Republic of Ireland and then on into the EU. If it does seal the border, the political strife and condemnation for breaking the GFA fall on the EU, not the UK.

This then places the "problem" of how to go about protecting the EU's precious Single Market whilst respecting the GFA back where it should have always been anyway, the EU. You're welcome.

Oh, and Italy’s Puglia Farms Say They Need Another 100,000 Seasonal Workers From Third Countries. So when did Italy leave the EU then? 🤔 👇👇👇👇👇

https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/news/italys-puglia-farms-say-they-need-another-100000-seasonal-workers-from-third-countries/

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6 minutes ago, Destination Unknown said:

So you agree there is no point of a border between Great Britain and Northern Ireland then. Right, got it.

You don't understand, do you? I just made a whole post explaining there must be a border between the SM and any third country. Not internally.

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11 minutes ago, pellinore said:

You don't understand, do you? I just made a whole post explaining there must be a border between the SM and any third country. Not internally.

No, you're right, I just do not understand your sheer hypocrisy at all.

On the one hand you're claiming there can be no such border between the EU and the EU, but yet on the other hand you're also claiming that the only solution is there has to be a border between the UK and UK, when quite clearly that is not the only solution at all, you just want it to be the only solution, because you obviously despise the UK (your own country) so much that you would literally sacrifice your own country's internal market just so your beloved doesn't have to.

I've just told you the solution, declare the entirety of N Ireland as a 'Free Trade Zone'. This would then eliminate any requirement for the UK to impose a customs border going into N Ireland from not only the Republic of Ireland (as per the GFA), but also going into N Ireland from mainland UK, with a customs border only needed going from N Ireland into mainland UK (on the UK side), and of course going from N Ireland into the Republic of Ireland, which is obviously not a UK problem anyway.

Your beloved EU then has to deal with an open border (as per the GFA) between itself and a 'Free Trade Zone'. If the EU does not seal the border, then goods that would normally attract tariffs would flow into the Republic of Ireland and then on into the EU. If it does seal the border, the political strife and condemnation for breaking the GFA fall on the EU, not the UK.

This then places the "problem" of how to go about protecting the EU's precious Single Market whilst respecting the GFA back where it should have always been anyway, the EU. You're welcome.

 

Oh, and Italy’s Puglia Farms Say They Need Another 100,000 Seasonal Workers From Third Countries. So when did Italy leave the EU then? 🤔 👇👇👇👇👇

https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/news/italys-puglia-farms-say-they-need-another-100000-seasonal-workers-from-third-countries/

 

Edited by Destination Unknown
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I’ve got news for those who say Brexit is a disaster: it isn’t. That’s why rejoining is just a pipe dream

Brexit is a dead issue at Westminster. There are any number of issues where it is hard to separate Labour and the Conservatives, and the reluctance to reopen the 2016 referendum debate is one of them. As with tax and spending, Keir Starmer is broadly offering continuity Rishi Sunak.

Plenty of people still nurture the hope that the decision will be reversed and are working to that end. But any successful campaign would need to do two things: convince voters that the UK economy had become a basket case since the Brexit vote and that life for those still in the club was so much better.

Neither criterion has been met. Britain’s economic performance in the seven years since 2016 has been mediocre but not the full-on horror show that was prophesied by the remain camp during the weeks leading up to the referendum. The doomsday scenario – crashing house prices (falls of up to 18% could result, warned then chancellor George Osborne) and mass unemployment – never happened.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/dec/05/brexit-disaster-rejoining-channel-europe-economy

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