No direct proof Covid-19 stemmed from Wuhan lab leak, US intelligence says

[Still Waters]

US intelligence agencies found no direct evidence that the Covid-19 pandemic stemmed from an incident at China’s Wuhan Institute of Virology, a report declassified on Friday said.

The four-page report by the office of the director of national intelligence (ODNI) said the US intelligence community still could not rule out the possibility that the virus came from a laboratory, however, and had not been able to discover the origins of the pandemic.

The report said that while “extensive work” had been conducted on coronaviruses at the Wuhan institute (WIV), the agencies had not found evidence of a specific incident that could have caused the outbreak.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jun/23/covid-19-origins-wuhan-lab-leak-us-intelligence-reports

[+and-then]

The CCP actively refuses to share records, patient zero is a researcher at the lab, we cannot "prove" where the virus originated.  This nation DESERVES to be destroyed by China, at least the corrupted District of Columbia...

[Occupational Hubris]

On 6/24/2023 at 7:25 AM, and-then said:

The CCP actively refuses to share records, patient zero is a researcher at the lab, we cannot "prove" where the virus originated. 

 

There are 2 journalists that think patient zero is a researcher at the lab. It' s not fact

On 6/24/2023 at 7:25 AM, and-then said:

 

This nation DESERVES to be destroyed by China, at least the corrupted District of Columbia...

You are the most hateful christian in the world

[Setton]

On 6/24/2023 at 12:25 PM, and-then said:

The CCP actively refuses to share records, patient zero is a researcher at the lab, we cannot "prove" where the virus originated. 

This you?

17 hours ago, and-then said:

 "Truth" is like everything else these days.  If you choose to believe a report then THAT becomes your reality.  

 

[+OverSword]

Quote

No direct proof Covid-19 stemmed from Wuhan lab leak, US intelligence says

Oh, and how could that be possible?   

[Edumakated]

Jon Stewart summed it up perfectly when he was on Stephen Colbert....

No matter how much circumstantial evidence is put forth, some folks will still think it came from some bad pangolin soup. 

 

[psyche101]

11 hours ago, OverSword said:

Oh, and how could that be possible?   

Easy 

Follow the evidence as opposed to social media.

World's of difference.

[Occupational Hubris]

I don't think it matters as much as some think whether it came from the lab or not. I'm not against the idea in any way. I am against jumping to conclusions and calling it a done deal without the evidence, like some here have done since the beginning. 

[psyche101]

4 hours ago, Occupational Hubris said:

I don't think it matters as much as some think whether it came from the lab or not. I'm not against the idea in any way. I am against jumping to conclusions and calling it a done deal without the evidence, like some here have done since the beginning. 

The big thing here is where the theories originate.

Lab leak is a rumour with legs and feels like media has been pushing the idea hard. 

Natural origin is the most likely conclusion of the scientific community involved in the actual investigation.

On any other subject the majority of lab leak proponents would normally dismiss any idea pushed by the media with zero evidence and wouldn't completely ignore the science. The lab leak idea is more supported by the typical right wing / libertarian pastime of flipping the bird at the government. Some sort of personal satisfaction. Except it's fake. I find it quite childish tbh. 

[openozy]

3 hours ago, psyche101 said:

 

Natural origin is the most likely conclusion of the scientific community involved in the actual investigation.

And add one of the paranormal community. This stuff is never going to end while the fish tank is over full.

[Edumakated]

Even Fauci's own team initially felt it had the earmarks of a lab leak early on.  He squashed it and then basically pushed a report to early on to say the opposite.  This was all leaked.

Here is why I think it was a lab leak.  The response from the government was suspicious in that it was so over the top.  This is why they jumped on lock downs, pushing a vaccine, and censoring of dissenting opinion.  Basically, government officials knew it was lab leak and the virus is not of natural origin.  In other words, this is the largest man-made disaster ever.

I don't think anything nefarious is going on other than government attempting to deflect and hide that they were either directly or indirectly involved with it's creation.  They couldn't just come out and say "Hey guys, we messed up.  This nasty virus we were working on got leaked."  In addition, I do think the actions were also an attempt to try to protect the public.  Essentially, the government response of lock downs, etc was because they simply did not know how c19 would affect the populace since they knew it was not of natural origin.

It's the old adage, the cover up is worse than the crime.

Edited June 28 by Edumakated

[+OverSword]

11 hours ago, psyche101 said:

Easy 

Follow the evidence as opposed to social media.

World's of difference.

The hard evidence is behind a dictatorial iron curtain.  I should just point out that you keep falsely claiming the patient zero coming from the lab is the "opinion" of two reporters.  Go back to the thread and read this time.  The source of that information are various sources in the US government

Quote

According to multiple U.S. government officials interviewed as part of a lengthy investigation by Public and Racket, the first people infected by the virus, “patients zero,” included Ben Hu, a researcher who led the WIV’s “gain-of-function” research on SARS-like coronaviruses, which increases the infectiousness of viruses.

https://public.substack.com/p/first-people-sickened-by-covid-19

It's not the opinion or guess of some random journalists, they merely reported what they were able to find out from the government. 

[+OverSword]

6 hours ago, psyche101 said:

Lab leak is a rumour with legs and feels like media has been pushing the idea hard. 

YOU ARE JOKING!!!!  

The media pushed the exact opposite for years

Edited June 28 by OverSword

[+OverSword]

On 6/25/2023 at 4:34 PM, Occupational Hubris said:

There are 2 journalists that think patient zero is a researcher at the lab. It' s not fact

They don't "think" that, they reported that from sources in the US government.  Maybe read the articles in the thread about it rather than parroting lies repeated here about it by other posters.

Edited June 28 by OverSword

[+and-then]

11 minutes ago, OverSword said:

They don't "think" that, they reported that from sources in the US government.  Maybe read the articles in the thread about it rather than parroting lies repeated here about it by other posters.

Those here who are still being so adamant about natural origin won't be swayed by any new facts.  They "know what they know" and they'll go to their graves without changing their minds.  Ain't tribalism grand?  BTW, just saw this today:

https://www.cnbctv18.com/healthcare/wuhan-researcher-claims-china-engineered-covid-19-as-a-bioweapon-17060391.htm

But this guy only worked there so, obviously he couldn't "know" anything   He makes no claim that it was released intentionally.  He DOES claim it was engineered by the PLA as a weapon and was being tested on non-human primates.  Virologists from Wuhan were also tasked with inspecting various settings in foreign countries to establish adherence to health and safety practices.  I assume that was to understand how quickly it would spread IF they ever released it intentionally.

[+and-then]

I believe enough evidence exists that the world should put the CCP on notice that if we ever have proof again that they've shared one of their viruses from a lab, accident or not, they will be hit with a WMD of our choosing, at a time and place of our choosing.

[XenoFish]

At this point I consider it a lab leak and olympic level of mental gymnastics to cover it up. Unless the whole thing was just a psyop to begin with. 

[+OverSword]

8 minutes ago, and-then said:

I believe enough evidence exists that the world should put the CCP on notice that if we ever have proof again that they've shared one of their viruses from a lab, accident or not, they will be hit with a WMD of our choosing, at a time and place of our choosing.

I don't agree with that.  Hit them where it really hurts dictator Xi, in the ego.  Talk a bunch of smack about the substandard methods used to prevent such a leak from happening, imply this is endemic in a system such as that which runs China.  Send them a bill for $5 million for each family that lost a loved one due to their carelessness.  

Edited June 28 by OverSword

[Edumakated]

5 minutes ago, and-then said:

Those here who are still being so adamant about natural origin won't be swayed by any new facts.  They "know what they know" and they'll go to their graves without changing their minds.  Ain't tribalism grand?  BTW, just saw this today:

https://www.cnbctv18.com/healthcare/wuhan-researcher-claims-china-engineered-covid-19-as-a-bioweapon-17060391.htm

But this guy only worked there so, obviously he couldn't "know" anything   He makes no claim that it was released intentionally.  He DOES claim it was engineered by the PLA as a weapon and was being tested on non-human primates.  Virologists from Wuhan were also tasked with inspecting various settings in foreign countries to establish adherence to health and safety practices.  I assume that was to understand how quickly it would spread IF they ever released it intentionally.

It is pretty obvious to those of us who aren't caught up in the matrix of propaganda. 

I don't think it was intentionally released.  It was probably just an accident.  China isn't known for it's safety protocols.

The US figured they just can't come out and say there is a man made bioweapon infecting us all...  nor did they have any idea as to how it might infect us.  Who knows how the NPCs might respond if told it was a bioweapon in early days.  We saw the panic rush on toilet paper.... had they been told it was a bioweapon, it could have collapsed society in panic.

Govt didn't know if would it turn into a nothing burger or kill 95% of us?   This is why there was such a freakout.  No governmemt responded the way they did to c19 when all the other naturally occurring viruses like Sars, bird flu, etc were floating around.  This is why I figured it was a leak.  The response was just too over the top for it to be naturally occurring imho.  Lock downs and censorship just didn't make any sense if it were a naturally occurring virus.  They had to control the narrative to squash the truth coming out.

Fortunately, it was kind of a nothing burger.  However, we may likely never know why it killed some folks whereas in others it was just a cough / cold.  We also don't know the long term effects of the vaccine.

[XenoFish]

1 minute ago, Edumakated said:

However, we may likely never know why it killed some folks whereas in others it was just a cough / cold. 

Comorbidities in some. Along with other health issues. From what I've been able to tell, the worse your health, the harder it hit. I've had covid twice. March of 2020 and earlier this year. The worst part about the second time was a horrible headache. 

[Edumakated]

18 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Comorbidities in some. Along with other health issues. From what I've been able to tell, the worse your health, the harder it hit. I've had covid twice. March of 2020 and earlier this year. The worst part about the second time was a horrible headache. 

I think it might be deeper than just comorbidities....

For example, Herman Cain supposedly died of c19, yet by most accounts he seemed fairly healthy for his age.   On the other hand, my mother was in a nursing home, suffering from advanced stage MS, former smoker, diabetes, high blood pressure, etc.... she got it twice before getting vaccinated and both times it was at best a minor cold.  I don't even think she realized she had it until she got routine test.

There were a few younger folks (mostly obese) but otherwise fairly healthy that died.

It is clear that the elderly with significant comorbidities were affected the most.  However, it still seemed kind of random.

The one thing I remember though that was odd was when it first happened, I recall there being some significant deaths at a few nursing homes.  I think there was one in Seattle where like 15 or 20 people died in like a week.  And then you remember in NYC there seemed to be a lot of deaths supposedly.  All of a sudden though, it just stopped by in large.

Here in Chicago they spent like $200 million to built this massive field hospital that was never even used.

Almost like virus got out, rapidly killed a few folks and then kind of died out.  I remember there were reports of a younger doctor who worked at the lab or was connected to it that died initially.  Again, odd given the youth when we know statistically it is unlikely.

Just saying there are some significant pieces to this puzzle missing imho....

Note:  I do recall too that there was a lot of propaganda about hospitals being over run.  The thing though was that that wasn't unusual either during flu season prior to covid.  I remember getting in debates about this as well.  So was it covid or just a regular flu season?

Edited June 28 by Edumakated

[XenoFish]

3 minutes ago, Edumakated said:

Just saying there are some significant pieces to this puzzle missing imho....

True. My pet theory is that the whole thing was just a staged power grab.

[Edumakated]

5 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

True. My pet theory is that the whole thing was just a staged power grab.

They most certainly used it to get Trump out of office.  It provided perfect cover for changing election laws.  I don't think that was the intent but I think it became clear to some it could be used for that goal....

The pandemic simulation they ran a few months prior just seems way to coincidental imho.

All I know is that this wasn't some random virus spread in a wet market.  We will likely never know what really happened and motivations.

[Setton]

3 hours ago, Edumakated said:

Even Fauci's own team initially felt it had the earmarks of a lab leak early on.  He squashed it and then basically pushed a report to early on to say the opposite.  This was all leaked.

Here is why I think it was a lab leak.  The response from the government was suspicious in that it was so over the top.  This is why they jumped on lock downs, pushing a vaccine, and censoring of dissenting opinion.  Basically, government officials knew it was lab leak and the virus is not of natural origin.  In other words, this is the largest man-made disaster ever.

 

1 hour ago, and-then said:

  He DOES claim it was engineered by the PLA as a weapon and was being tested on non-human primates.  

Well those are cute stories.

Unfortunately, facts disagree. I'm sure you'll insist on 'alternative' ones (lies) but here you go:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0820-9

[Edumakated]

4 minutes ago, Setton said:

 

Well those are cute stories.

Unfortunately, facts disagree. I'm sure you'll insist on 'alternative' ones (lies) but here you go:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0820-9

You are right.... the facts do disagree.

The leaks I am referencing are specifically addressing that article you linked to and how it was designed to push the natural origin.

https://theintercept.com/2023/01/19/covid-origin-nih-emails/

Quote

The documents show that in the early days of the pandemic, Fauci and Collins took part in a series of email exchanges and telephone calls in which several leading virologists expressed concern that SARS-CoV-2 looked potentially “engineered.” The participants also contemplated the possibility that laboratory activities had inadvertently led to the creation and release of the virus. The conversations convey a sense of anxious urgency and included speculation about the specific types of laboratory techniques that might have caused the virus’s emergence. After roughly a week of debate and data collection, one of the key figures involved in the deliberations characterized the focus of the group’s work as follows: “to disprove any type of lab theory.” Several of the scientists on the calls and emails then went on to write and publish “Proximal Origin.” It became one of the best-read papers in the history of science.

The article I linked lays out the leaks and email references and what led to it's publishing.