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Brexiteer fury at plan for UK to join an EU army


pellinore

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Brexiteer fury at UK joining EU army as MP slams 'exact opposite' reason for quitting bloc

Defence ministers today clashed with Brexiteer MPs over warnings that joining part of the EU's Permanent Structured Cooperation (PESCO) will drag Britain into an EU army.

Brexiteer MPs clashed with ministers today in the House of Commons as the Government refused to rule out taking further steps towards joining an EU army.

The issue was raised by Reclaim MP Andrew Bridgen, who was one of the Tory Brexiteer spartans before he was expelled from the Conservatives, in tense scenes in the Commons.

He questioned why the UK has agreed to sign up to part of the EU's Permanent Structured Cooperation (PESCO) - often termed by critics as the EU army - on moving military across Europe.

Brexiteer MPs' fury as ministers refuse to rule out joining an EU army | Politics | News | Express.co.uk

Edited by pellinore
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The UK might do well to be a VOTING part of such a force.  My nation has become totally unreliable when it comes to helping some of our main allies - like Israel.  Who knows who they'll ignore next?  Our nation is at the point of economic collapse and slow (perhaps) disintegration due to political hate from tribalism.

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Brexit was paid for with Russian blood money.  The true aim of Brexit was to cause a cascading collapse of the EU & NATO prior to Russia invading Ukraine and Eastern Europe, making the entire alliance split apart.  Brexiteers played to the worst elements of British Xenophobia, and straight into the hands of Putin.  The Pro-Brexit faction records should be combed over for pro-Russian collusion and the guilty tried for treason.  The conservatives were either played hard, or were the worst sort of criminals, likely some were both.

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8 hours ago, Alchopwn said:

Brexit was paid for with Russian blood money.  The true aim of Brexit was to cause a cascading collapse of the EU & NATO prior to Russia invading Ukraine and Eastern Europe, making the entire alliance split apart.  Brexiteers played to the worst elements of British Xenophobia, and straight into the hands of Putin.  The Pro-Brexit faction records should be combed over for pro-Russian collusion and the guilty tried for treason.  The conservatives were either played hard, or were the worst sort of criminals, likely some were both.

You are right in that Russian funds were used to part pay for Brexit and Russians were major donors to the Tory Party, and that Brexit was one of Putin's few diplomatic successes (Boris Johnson was warned of Lebedev security concerns, says Cummings - BBC News)

But that is only part of the story. The ERG (the extremely influential and extremely right-wing core at the heart of the Tory Party) were also concerned that EU oversight was hindering their ability to squirrel away public funds and was exposing them to increasing scrutiny. (The bonanza of the Covid funds when billions were, effectively, stolen from tax-payers to pay for non-existent or sub-standard PPE was one of the ERGs successes of Brexit) so they were more than happy to play the part of Putin's stooges.

One thing is certain- no-one with a functioning brain cell ever imagined that cutting yourself off from your nearest and most significant trading partners would ever by successful in the way that success is normally judged. It was expected to be the end of UK manufacturing, (including car manufacturing), fishing and farming (Patrick Minford, Brexit economist, forecast this). But it is a price worth paying if your wealth comes not from industry, but from international markets and if you care more about your personal wealth than the UK.

 

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9 hours ago, Alchopwn said:

Brexit was paid for with Russian blood money.  The true aim of Brexit was to cause a cascading collapse of the EU & NATO prior to Russia invading Ukraine and Eastern Europe, making the entire alliance split apart.  Brexiteers played to the worst elements of British Xenophobia, and straight into the hands of Putin.  The Pro-Brexit faction records should be combed over for pro-Russian collusion and the guilty tried for treason.  The conservatives were either played hard, or were the worst sort of criminals, likely some were both.

 

 There has been at least one court case looking at accusations of Russian involvement in UK politics.

Those who suggest the idea in public tend to end up out of pocket with no proof to backup claims.

Carole Cadwalladr ordered to pay £1.2m costs in Arron Banks libel trial

Carole Cadwalladr made accusations about  Arron Banks in which she accused Mr Banks of lying about "his covert relationship with the Russian government"

Mr Banks argued her remarks were "false and defamatory" and sought damages and an injunction to restrain the continued publication of the remarks.

Subsequently, court documents dated 17 May said Mr Banks "was the successful party on the appeal and overall", and that Ms Cadwalladr must pay 60% of the businessman's original costs - listing an interim figure of £400,000.

Mr Banks is a prominent Brexit campaigner, and founded the campaign group Leave.EU.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/carole-cadwalladr-loses-yet-again/

https://order-order.com/2023/06/09/breaking-carole-cadwalladr-appeal-against-arron-banks-refused/

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65644475

 

Cambridge Analytica 'not involved' in Brexit referendum, says watchdog

On the wider issue of the integrity of the 2016 referendum, the regulator said it had not identified any "significant breaches" of the privacy and electronic marketing regulations or data protection legislation by either Remain or Leave groups "which met the threshold for formal regulatory action".

Ms Denham said while the question of alleged Russian interference in the 2016 vote was outside the remit of the inquiry, the regulator had not found "any additional evidence" of Russian involvement in its analysis of material contained in computer servers seized from Cambridge Analytica and SCL Elections.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54457407

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On 6/27/2023 at 3:22 PM, L.A.T.1961 said:

 

 There has been at least one court case looking at accusations of Russian involvement in UK politics.

Those who suggest the idea in public tend to end up out of pocket with no proof to backup claims.

Carole Cadwalladr ordered to pay £1.2m costs in Arron Banks libel trial

Carole Cadwalladr made accusations about  Arron Banks in which she accused Mr Banks of lying about "his covert relationship with the Russian government"

Mr Banks argued her remarks were "false and defamatory" and sought damages and an injunction to restrain the continued publication of the remarks.

Subsequently, court documents dated 17 May said Mr Banks "was the successful party on the appeal and overall", and that Ms Cadwalladr must pay 60% of the businessman's original costs - listing an interim figure of £400,000.

Mr Banks is a prominent Brexit campaigner, and founded the campaign group Leave.EU.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/carole-cadwalladr-loses-yet-again/

https://order-order.com/2023/06/09/breaking-carole-cadwalladr-appeal-against-arron-banks-refused/

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65644475

 

Cambridge Analytica 'not involved' in Brexit referendum, says watchdog

On the wider issue of the integrity of the 2016 referendum, the regulator said it had not identified any "significant breaches" of the privacy and electronic marketing regulations or data protection legislation by either Remain or Leave groups "which met the threshold for formal regulatory action".

Ms Denham said while the question of alleged Russian interference in the 2016 vote was outside the remit of the inquiry, the regulator had not found "any additional evidence" of Russian involvement in its analysis of material contained in computer servers seized from Cambridge Analytica and SCL Elections.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54457407

Farage has been denied banking rights in the UK- he has said he has had no dodgy dealings with a whole range of countries and gave examples: Ukraine, China, etc (you'll have no doubt seen him speaking on GBN or TikTok or wherever he spouts off). He missed out naming one country-  a rather large one that is sort of between Ukraine and China. That's because he was intercepted accepting at least one payment of £518,000 from them for his services. I could post a link but it is public knowledge anyway. He is a traitor.

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On 6/27/2023 at 4:59 AM, Alchopwn said:

Brexit was paid for with Russian blood money.  The true aim of Brexit was to cause a cascading collapse of the EU & NATO prior to Russia invading Ukraine and Eastern Europe, making the entire alliance split apart.  Brexiteers played to the worst elements of British Xenophobia, and straight into the hands of Putin.  The Pro-Brexit faction records should be combed over for pro-Russian collusion and the guilty tried for treason.  The conservatives were either played hard, or were the worst sort of criminals, likely some were both.

is this an opinion?

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@Alchopwn hasn't yet responded to you, but my view is echoed in this article, which is that Russia interference occurred but the extent of the  effect is not known:A vote for Brexit was a vote for Putin | EU ROPE (ideasoneurope.eu)

Putin’s fingerprints are all over Brexit. There’s been suspicions of this for some time, but the evidence is now compelling and urgently needs proper investigation.

Motive is the key incentive for any crime. There have never been any benefits for Britain doing Brexit. Not even one. Any apparent motive for leaving the EU was based on a pack of astonishing, outrageous lies.

But the benefits to Russia from Brexit are both clear and enormous.

Edited by pellinore
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On 6/26/2023 at 7:51 PM, pellinore said:

Brexiteer fury at UK joining EU army as MP slams 'exact opposite' reason for quitting bloc

Defence ministers today clashed with Brexiteer MPs over warnings that joining part of the EU's Permanent Structured Cooperation (PESCO) will drag Britain into an EU army.

Brexiteer MPs clashed with ministers today in the House of Commons as the Government refused to rule out taking further steps towards joining an EU army.

The issue was raised by Reclaim MP Andrew Bridgen, who was one of the Tory Brexiteer spartans before he was expelled from the Conservatives, in tense scenes in the Commons.

He questioned why the UK has agreed to sign up to part of the EU's Permanent Structured Cooperation (PESCO) - often termed by critics as the EU army - on moving military across Europe.

Brexiteer MPs' fury as ministers refuse to rule out joining an EU army | Politics | News | Express.co.uk

We have NATO so we already have an alliance.

France is a problem as a nuclear power within the EU. If the US and EU had a falling out, with Britain being a target in the middle, the fact of the matter is that both the US and EU have nukes. By being part of 5 eyes thats tied the US to us nice and effectively. We need a way to tie the EU containing France to us. But the problem with PESCO is that won`t we be fighting the EUs wars?

If we look at the EUs current war isn`t Britain providing a disproportionate amount of military equipment and aide? Thats the real danger, that other EU members won`t pull their weight.

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55 minutes ago, Electric Scooter said:

But the problem with PESCO is that won`t we be fighting the EUs wars?

We are part of Europe, so we will always be involved in one way or another if there is conflict in Europe. The EU isn't a country, btw.

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1 hour ago, pellinore said:

We are part of Europe, so we will always be involved in one way or another if there is conflict in Europe. The EU isn't a country, btw.

Britain is not part of Europe or European.

We are separate, distinct, with our own civilization. The greatest people that ever lived. Instead of the yellow belly defeatists rolling over to re-join the EU they need `re-education` to remind them of how wonderfully brilliant and capable we truly are.

Lets forge our own path forward!!! Tally ho lads!!! Let the barbarians on the continent fight amongst themselves while we plan and build greater things. We don`t want to spill our blood for them, they always end up waring on each other anyway.

Edited by Electric Scooter
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On 7/1/2023 at 12:06 AM, pellinore said:

Farage has been denied banking rights in the UK- he has said he has had no dodgy dealings with a whole range of countries and gave examples: Ukraine, China, etc (you'll have no doubt seen him speaking on GBN or TikTok or wherever he spouts off). He missed out naming one country-  a rather large one that is sort of between Ukraine and China. That's because he was intercepted accepting at least one payment of £518,000 from them for his services. I could post a link but it is public knowledge anyway. He is a traitor.

I suppose you could supply a link to this report showing Farage receiving Russian money. Or is it an ex Russian UK passport holder living in the UK who, as a British taxpayer and someone who can vote here, decided to contribute to a political party.

Which is not illegal.   

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1574521/labour-donors-russia-oligarch-donations-evg

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I have found a link to Farage's supposed taking of Russian money, it appears to come from Chris Bryant mud slinging without basis.

" The Labour MP Bryant scored an early hit when he used parliamentary privilege to reveal that Chelsea owner Roman Abramovich was identified by the Home Office in 2019 as having links to the Russian state as well as to ‘corrupt activity and practices.’ 

But his latest effort to repeat the stunt seems to have backfired somewhat, after the Standards Committee chair turned his guns on a new target: Nigel Farage.

" I simply point out that Nigel Farage received £548,573 from Russia Today in 2018 alone—this is from the Russian state." said Bryant.

The sum Farage earnt from RT was less than £5000 not £548,000. But its well known labour MP's have difficulty adding up. ;)

And Bryant was also on RT but was paid nothing, about what he is worth. :tu:

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/fact-check-did-farage-get-548-000-from-russia/

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