Has serial killer Jack the Ripper's identity been revealed at last ?

[UM-Bot]

A former police volunteer believes that she has uncovered the identity of the infamous 19th-Century murderer.

https://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/news/368596/has-serial-killer-jack-the-rippers-identity-been-revealed-at-last

[Alchopwn]

Another credible suspect at least.

[Bed of chaos]

This happens every year lol. Any proof he wrote the letters?

[Gilbert Syndrome]

Hyam Hyams is neither a new suspect, nor a compelling one. 

[nevins]

This year it was announced that the Jack the Ripper case had finally been solved. A shawl found by the body of Catherine Eddows contained forensic evidence, which was used to identify the killer as Aaron Kosminski. Kosminski was a 23 year old barber from Poland at the time of the murders & was considered a suspect. I believed this had finally put to bed the mystery however upon reflection it just throws up more questions.

[Shadowsfall]

I thought the (for want of a better word) dissection or maiming had been done to a surgical degree not sure this guy was capable of this..

[newbloodmoon]

There was an interesting documentary (5-10) yrs ago that posited H.H. Holmes, the American serial killer was a strong suspect but alas it wasn’t proven adequately to continue with that hypothesis.

[Katniss]

11 hours ago, newbloodmoon said:

There was an interesting documentary (5-10) yrs ago that posited H.H. Holmes, the American serial killer was a strong suspect but alas it wasn’t proven adequately to continue with that hypothesis.

I remember seeing that documentary. He was suppose to be in Whitechapel at the same time the murders happened. They pointed out that when he moved to United States the murders stopped at the same time. It's either a coincidence or a very good fact in Jack the Ripper case since Holmes was a serial killer.

[Gilbert Syndrome]

18 hours ago, nevins said:

This year it was announced that the Jack the Ripper case had finally been solved. A shawl found by the body of Catherine Eddows contained forensic evidence, which was used to identify the killer as Aaron Kosminski. Kosminski was a 23 year old barber from Poland at the time of the murders & was considered a suspect. I believed this had finally put to bed the mystery however upon reflection it just throws up more questions.

The trouble with the shawl is that there's no confirmation it belonged to any canonical victim, and it's been handled by a lot of different people over the years that its supposed DNA traces could be linked with lots of people. 

 

The trouble with Kosminski as a suspect is that nobody really knows who that person was, or if that was even the person's real name. There's a lot of confusion over Aaron Kosminski to the point where I don't fully understand why anyone has him as their number 1 suspect. 

 

In all honesty, we're no closer to knowing what really happened in 1888 any more than the police knew back then, and likely never will. But it sells books, and that creates profit, and profit buys houses. 

[Gilbert Syndrome]

13 hours ago, Shadowsfall said:

I thought the (for want of a better word) dissection or maiming had been done to a surgical degree not sure this guy was capable of this..

I don't think that the killer needed to be surgically trained, personally. The expert opinion was varied on the matter, but they stopped looking for doctors and surgeons and began looking at butchers and knackerers. 

[Gilbert Syndrome]

22 minutes ago, Katniss said:

I remember seeing that documentary. He was suppose to be in Whitechapel at the same time the murders happened. They pointed out that when he moved to United States the murders stopped at the same time. It's either a coincidence or a very good fact in Jack the Ripper case since Holmes was a serial killer.

Holmes wasn't in Whitechapel during the autumn of 1888. That documentary was really lacking in pretty much everything. Holmes murdered for gain and profit, whereas the Ripper, whoever they were, was purely interested in getting their rocks off on post-mortem mutilations. The killing was a means to an end for both, but the payoff was vastly different to both. 

Edited July 21, 2023 by Gilbert Syndrome

[Gilbert Syndrome]

On 7/20/2023 at 5:56 PM, Bed of chaos said:

This happens every year lol. Any proof he wrote the letters?

It certainly does! But I guess it keeps the Ripper gravy train going. 

Regarding the letters, I'm not sold on any of them being legitimate... But that's just me, other opinions vary. 

[Katniss]

2 hours ago, Gilbert Syndrome said:

Holmes wasn't in Whitechapel during the autumn of 1888. That documentary was really lacking in pretty much everything. Holmes murdered for gain and profit, whereas the Ripper, whoever they were, was purely interested in getting their rocks off on post-mortem mutilations. The killing was a means to an end for both, but the payoff was vastly different to both. 

Yes I know. They only had ship logs in reference to the name of “H Holmes” as a passenger leaving the U.K. at that time.

Quote

Speaking of the United States, Fox and Mudgett’s investigation has revealed that Holmes left a trail of business documents which allows us to chart his movements. Except, that is, between 1888 and 1889, when the paper trail goes mysteriously quiet. This coincides with the timeframe of the Ripper killings in London – so could this have been when Holmes was Jack? We do know from ship logs that an individual by the name of “H Holmes” was a passenger who sailed from the UK to the US shortly after the Ripper killings ended.

Could Jack the Ripper have been HH Holmes?

That's why I said - It's either a coincidence or a very good fact in Jack the Ripper case since Holmes was a serial killer.

[Future_Ikann]

Every few years this pops up again and again. 

[Portre]

I think the statute of limitations has passed.

[Gilbert Syndrome]

18 hours ago, Katniss said:

Yes I know. They only had ship logs in reference to the name of “H Holmes” as a passenger leaving the U.K. at that time.

Could Jack the Ripper have been HH Holmes?

That's why I said - It's either a coincidence or a very good fact in Jack the Ripper case since Holmes was a serial killer.

I'd go with coincidence. Holmes seldom used that alias when travelling, nor his real name most of the time. During the summer of 1888 he was still working on his schemes, and in 1888 H.H. Holmes was involved in several lawsuits in Chicago. In just one of them, he made a court appearance on September 18th, was ordered to answer on Sept 26th, met with his attorney afterwards and had his answers to the suit filed on October 12th.  Holmes can be linked to Chicago during the autumn of 1888. 

[Bed of chaos]

On 7/21/2023 at 4:30 PM, Gilbert Syndrome said:

It certainly does! But I guess it keeps the Ripper gravy train going. 

Regarding the letters, I'm not sold on any of them being legitimate... But that's just me, other opinions vary. 

Didn't he mail in evidence from victims? More than once?  Yes, its possible the press mailed copycat letters (to sell papers). Though I'd bet most of them did come from same person. Anyway, in regards to  Kosminski, I agree. Paranoid deranged schizophrenic who (supposedly) barely spoke english? No way he repeatedly toyed w cops/detectives. Plus one of the scientists who examined shawl, walked back original claims. Stated it could've been from anyone european.

Edited July 22, 2023 by Bed of chaos

[Katniss]

4 hours ago, Gilbert Syndrome said:

I'd go with coincidence. Holmes seldom used that alias when travelling, nor his real name most of the time. During the summer of 1888 he was still working on his schemes, and in 1888 H.H. Holmes was involved in several lawsuits in Chicago. In just one of them, he made a court appearance on September 18th, was ordered to answer on Sept 26th, met with his attorney afterwards and had his answers to the suit filed on October 12th.  Holmes can be linked to Chicago during the autumn of 1888. 

You did not mention all of this before. Not that it's a big deal to me, but out of curiosity do you have a link to this court information?

Edit: In the last part of your paragraph, it looks as though you quoted something with different font text size. So I am wondering if you have a link to that info.

Edited July 22, 2023 by Katniss

[+susieice]

6 hours ago, Portre said:

I think the statute of limitations has passed.

There's no statute of limitations on murder. At least not in the US. The killer is long dead but the investigation can continue if they think they can ever solve it.

[+susieice]

1 hour ago, Bed of chaos said:

Didn't he mail in evidence from victims? More than once?  Yes, its possible the press mailed copycat letters (to sell papers). Though I'd bet most of them did come from same person. Anyway, in regards to  Kosminski, I agree. Paranoid deranged schizophrenic who (supposedly) barely spoke english? No way he repeatedly toyed w cops/detectives. Plus one of the scientists who examined shawl, walked back original claims. Stated it could've been from anyone european.

Half a kidney was with the From Hell letter.

https://www.jack-the-ripper.org/openshaw.htm

The portion of the kidney which it enclosed has, according to the medical experts, been preserved for some time in spirits of wine. The person from whom it was taken was probably

ALIVE THREE WEEKS SINCE

a circumstance which fits in with the suggestion that the organ may have been taken from the body of the deceased woman Eddowes, murdered in Mitre-square. Another fact is that the kidney is evidently that of a person who had been a considerable drinker, as there were distinct marks of disease. The handwriting of the letter differs altogether from that of "Jack the Ripper," specimens of whose calligraphy were recently published. The writing is of an inferior character, evidently disguised, while the spelling, as will be seen, is indifferent.

Edited July 22, 2023 by susieice

[Gilbert Syndrome]

13 hours ago, Katniss said:

You did not mention all of this before. Not that it's a big deal to me, but out of curiosity do you have a link to this court information?

Edit: In the last part of your paragraph, it looks as though you quoted something with different font text size. So I am wondering if you have a link to that info.

 

A lot of it was covered on the JtR forums several years ago, and also on the Casebook forum, where I'm a member. I think much of the information can be found in this podcast, which is essentially derived from the book by Selzer: https://mysteriouschicago.com/hh-holmes-and-jack-the-ripper-the-chicago-evidence-with-podcast/

 

I'm not sure why the rest of that quote didn't come through, maybe didn't copy it all, but that part of the information was by J. Menges, Ripper Notes contributor. The podcast info comes from the book of David Selzer. 

 

There's other reasons why Holmes isn't a good suspect, but he's been offered up before, even by the author Robert Bloch. 

[Gilbert Syndrome]

14 hours ago, Bed of chaos said:

Didn't he mail in evidence from victims? More than once?  Yes, its possible the press mailed copycat letters (to sell papers). Though I'd bet most of them did come from same person. Anyway, in regards to  Kosminski, I agree. Paranoid deranged schizophrenic who (supposedly) barely spoke english? No way he repeatedly toyed w cops/detectives. Plus one of the scientists who examined shawl, walked back original claims. Stated it could've been from anyone european.

The letter received by George Lusk, of the Whitechapel Vigilance Committee, contained a portion of a kidney, said to be from Catherine Eddows, but it's difficult to confirm that. 

 

The letter itself was supposedly penned by a journalist, and contains a pretty forced Irish twang and attempts to dumb itself down. I'm not entirely sold on any of the correspondence, personally.

 

[Katniss]

7 hours ago, Gilbert Syndrome said:

 

A lot of it was covered on the JtR forums several years ago, and also on the Casebook forum, where I'm a member. I think much of the information can be found in this podcast, which is essentially derived from the book by Selzer: https://mysteriouschicago.com/hh-holmes-and-jack-the-ripper-the-chicago-evidence-with-podcast/

 

I'm not sure why the rest of that quote didn't come through, maybe didn't copy it all, but that part of the information was by J. Menges, Ripper Notes contributor. The podcast info comes from the book of David Selzer. 

 

There's other reasons why Holmes isn't a good suspect, but he's been offered up before, even by the author Robert Bloch. 

Thanks for the link. Unfortunately I see that it's another author trying to sell their book like the other one, Jeff Mudgett, who thinks H.H.Holmes was in Whitechapel at the time the murders were committed. And this author Adam Selzer admits, though H.H. Holmes had court cases in Chicago, he didn't personally show up to court during those court cases an it's not exactly a smoking gun that Holmes was there in Chicago or anywhere nearby. Which could lead a person to believe he was somewhere else, even Whitechapel, to run off and hide and avoid court. And what his relatives said about his whereabouts  at the time could have been fabricated by them at the time to cover his tracks, although they may have not known he was in Whitechapel and committing murders at the time. And Holmes may have told them to say he visited them, when they all knew that he didn't, even if they knew he was in Whitechapel, but he didn't tell them that he committed those murders.

But there are too many inconsistencies with both and between both author's time and placement of Holmes that I have to take their suggestive investigations into recorded documents with a grain of salt. But there is one fact Adam Selzer pointed out that is true and that is consistent with the way serial killers commit their murders in their profiles.

Quote

Stronger still is the fact that Holmes doesn’t really make that good of a candidate for the Ripper to begin with, as he just wasn’t the sort of killer who went around hacking random prostitutes to bits. Though he is often portrayed that way these days, as a killer who used gas chambers, hanging, and stabbings stories of him being that sort of killer have more roots in tabloids and pulps than from more reliable sources. There are only a handful of known victims (plus some “maybes,” see my list), and none were random. None were stabbed to death – in all cases where there’s much to go on, he seems to have favored poison.

From what I understand about serial killers, serial killers don't change their routines in the way they murder someone unless they are about to be caught in the middle of a murder and fear being caught. So they hurry and screw up their routine making a mess from the way they normally do their killings. So what Adam Selzer pointed out in the above quote makes total sense. Both of these serial killings are totally different in the way they were committed. One killed with slashing and surgical cutting, and the other built a dungeon place with tricks and death traps. So their profiles don't match in the way they committed these murders.

Edited July 23, 2023 by Katniss

[Gilbert Syndrome]

3 hours ago, Katniss said:

Thanks for the link. Unfortunately I see that it's another author trying to sell their book like the other one, Jeff Mudgett, who thinks H.H.Holmes was in Whitechapel at the time the murders were committed. And this author Adam Selzer admits, though H.H. Holmes had court cases in Chicago, he didn't personally show up to court during those court cases an it's not exactly a smoking gun that Holmes was there in Chicago or anywhere nearby. Which could lead a person to believe he was somewhere else, even Whitechapel, to run off and hide and avoid court. And what his relatives said about his whereabouts  at the time could have been fabricated by them at the time to cover his tracks, although they may have not known he was in Whitechapel and committing murders at the time. And Holmes may have told them to say he visited them, when they all knew that he didn't, even if they knew he was in Whitechapel, but he didn't tell them that he committed those murders.

But there are too many inconsistencies with both and between both author's time and placement of Holmes that I have to take their suggestive investigations into recorded documents with a grain of salt. But there is one fact Adam Selzer pointed out that is true and that is consistent with the way serial killers commit their murders in their profiles.

From what I understand about serial killers, serial killers don't change their routines in the way they murder someone unless they are about to be caught in the middle of a murder and fear being caught. So they hurry and screw up their routine making a mess from the way they normally do their killings. So what Adam Selzer pointed out in the above quote makes total sense. Both of these serial killings are totally different in the way they were committed. One killed with slashing and surgical cutting, and the other built a dungeon place with tricks and death traps. So their profiles don't match in the way they committed these murders.

There's no good evidence that Holmes was anywhere near Whitechapel during the autumn of 1888, and unless you're a canonical guy, there's the murders before and after that late summer and early autumn that Holmes would need to be placed into Whitechapel for. Holmes was a busy man in 1888 without having to be placed in the east end of London, a place he'd be essentially lost in, but would have to be adept at navigating if he were the Ripper. 

Like I mentioned earlier, Holmes murdered for gain. The Ripper murdered so that they could mess around with the dead corpse. Killing was a means to an end for both, but the payoff for the Ripper wasn't financial, it was sexual. 

Selzer seems to be discussing the signature, but there are examples of killers who have killed in many different ways over long periods, one of many examples being Richard Ramirez. So for me, it's not the manner in which the victims were done in that makes me doubt Holmes was the man. As for signature, though, there's an interesting suspect named William Henry Bury, who's worth looking into. 

But either way, it's not to be taken for granted that Polly Nichols was the first, or that Mary Kelly was the last. There are other murders. The torsos found around London at the same time as the Whitechapel killings are of interest to anyone who is interested in looking for the real murderer. It certainly wasn't Holmes committing all of these crimes. 

Whoever it was, they knew the city well and probably lived within spitting distance from the slayings. 

Edited July 23, 2023 by Gilbert Syndrome

[Katniss]

1 hour ago, Gilbert Syndrome said:

There's no good evidence that Holmes was anywhere near Whitechapel during the autumn of 1888, and unless you're a canonical guy, there's the murders before and after that late summer and early autumn that Holmes would need to be placed into Whitechapel for. Holmes was a busy man in 1888 without having to be placed in the east end of London, a place he'd be essentially lost in, but would have to be adept at navigating if he were the Ripper. 

Like I mentioned earlier, Holmes murdered for gain. The Ripper murdered so that they could mess around with the dead corpse. Killing was a means to an end for both, but the payoff for the Ripper wasn't financial, it was sexual. 

Selzer seems to be discussing the signature, but there are examples of killers who have killed in many different ways over long periods, one of many examples being Richard Ramirez. So for me, it's not the manner in which the victims were done in that makes me doubt Holmes was the man. As for signature, though, there's an interesting suspect named William Henry Bury, who's worth looking into. 

But either way, it's not to be taken for granted that Polly Nichols was the first, or that Mary Kelly was the last. There are other murders. The torsos found around London at the same time as the Whitechapel killings are of interest to anyone who is interested in looking for the real murderer. It certainly wasn't Holmes committing all of these crimes. 

Whoever it was, they knew the city well and probably lived within spitting distance from the slayings. 

No Richard Ramirez did use the same routine when killing his victims. He stalked his victims at night. He either used a gun, club, or knife to slay his victims. He left satanic symbols on the walls of his victims place where they were killed.

That's the pattern in his profile. It's not about how the same weapon is used over and over again, although that helps if the same weapon is used and it's part of the case. It's entirely the routine way they do each killing, from beginning to end. The pattern is the key.

Edited July 23, 2023 by Katniss