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The Great Pyramid's Greatest Secret (Hidden in Plain Sight)


Scott Creighton

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57 minutes ago, Scott Creighton said:

So, we have

 

SC

You not addressing the mastodon in the bathroom - how does the moon-earth system flip over - multiple times? You can speculate and wave your hands all you want but until you come up with a scientifically possible way for what you think happened, to happen  - your idea isn't going anywhere but the pit of dead fringe ideas.

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26 minutes ago, Hanslune said:

Interesting what is the time frame of that quote?  Is it 1320 BC and 1290 BCE? Oddly the Babylonian don't seemed to have noticed that firstly the earth flipped then flipped back, neither did the Shang Dynasty both of which were avid sky watchers.

Well, by strange coincidence it just happens to be those dates. This brackets the "Sun rising in the West" inscription between the last full use of the Amduat, with the Sun rising in the East and setting in the West, in WV22, a few reigns before Horemheb, and the first use of the Book of Gates by Seti I two reigns after Horemheb. Btw, the Book of Gates of course has the rising and setting of the Sun in the East and then West, it also says some other pertinant things with a bearing about "Gods in the West" and Ra, but I don't think they will be welcome.

Oh wait, I forgot, Seti I is not the first use of the Book of Gates, it first appears in the tomb of Horemheb. So, his tomb has the sun rising in the East and setting in the West, which contradicts the fringe interpretation of this inscription, or, in Horemheb's time did the Sun rise and set in the East and West at the same time, who knows the truth, oh, riiiight....

Edited by Wepwawet
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8 hours ago, Kenemet said:

Well, it's over 1000 years AFTER the Gizamids... and the Giza plateau monuments were of such little importance that the whole area was allowed to go to ruin.

Now, if the 19th Dynasty had been obsessed with the pyramids of Giza and had maintained the monuments and held big festivals there (as they did with Abydos) then you might have a point.

But they weren't.  And they didn't.

Not to confuse the issue, but as an aside the 19th Dynasty, namely prince Khaemweset, did take a keen interest in restoring several old kingdom monuments and statues and was active at Giza as well. 

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7 minutes ago, Scott Creighton said:

So, we have ancient Egyptian priests insisting to Herodotus that the sun one rose on the west and set in the east and that they knew this to have occurred on two occasions.

We have an ancient Egyptian inscription which tells us the sun god Harakhte rose in the west.

There are other citations from elsewhere in ancient Egypt of the same occurrence.

Around the ancient world there are many similar accounts of astronomical observations that can only (reasonably) be explained by a change in the Earth’s orbital dynamics.

And so it goes on. These are but a few messages passed down to us by our ancestors. There are many, many more indications, from all over the ancient world, that tell us, in remote antiquity, our Earth dynamics were configured differently to what they are today.

As I said in a previous post – when so many voices from all over the ancient world speak of a similar earth changing event, I tend to listen and not simply dismiss them as primitive and ignorant, as many modern scholars tend to do. “Oh, they must surely be wrong because what they’re saying is impossible.” (We’ll get to that). Alternatively, the cynics will insist (almost always without any proof) that the ancient observers of these highly unusual celestial events were all hallucinating, or speaking/writing metaphorically or just plain mistaken.

Well, as I’m sure most here know – I do not subscribe to that opinion. In my view, there’s a reason why so many ancient sources tell us the sun once rose in the west (twice); there’s a reason why the sun stood still in the sky for a whole day; there’s a reason why Plato tells us that the heavens reverse their direction after long intervals; there’s a reason why Senmut’s astronomical ceiling (more on this below) depicts an inverted sky; there’s a reason why we find evidence all over the world that can only rationally be explained with a different configuration/orientation of the globe. And on and on it goes. And the reason we have all of these ancient accounts, citations and an abundance of physical evidence is quite simply because, it seems to me, Earth inversions and sunrise swaps can happen and did happen. And I think also (as the OP video demonstrates) the four shafts of the great pyramid can be interpreted as ‘showing’ us this inversion event along with providing the knowledge of when each inversion event occurs. Many ancient sources tell us these inversion events are cyclical.

As stated, the evidence indicating that the Earth’s present orbital dynamics were once different is wide and extensive and comes from all parts of the world. Senmut’s astronomical ceiling is just one such piece of evidence and, given the context of the ancient Egyptian sun-reversal references in this topic, I think one that's worthy of consideration here.

First to notice the peculiar nature of this ceiling was Alexander Pogo who wrote:

Here’s the ceiling:

Senemut-Ceiling.jpg.6c637e2ad17da3796953744a36f11269.jpg

Figure 1. The Senemut Astronomical Ceiling. Looking at this image on-screen, Sah/Orion (southern panel, centre) appears to be in the right location i.e. west of Isis/Sirius.

However, when we look up at the ceiling from the chamber floor, (with the figures ‘upright’), it all changes.

Orion-East-of-Sirius.thumb.jpg.e686f053cf159cf8c365a98c84ce64db.jpg

Figure 2. Perspective when looking up at the ceiling from below.

Notice how, in figure 2, the Sah/Orion/Osiris figure is actually to the eastern side of the chamber and the Sirius/Isis figure is to the western side. Sah/Orion should, of course, be to the west of Sirius. They’re reversed.

Notice also in figure 3, below (left), how the Sirius/Isis figure is taller (higher) than Sah/Orion/Osiris.

Giza-Senemut-Comparison.jpg.375fc9971aa700f377df154f3313e004.jpg

Figure 3. Note: for easy comparison with the sky image to right, the Senemut ceiling image (left) has been reversed in order to simulate the view of the ceiling when looking up at it from below.

However, when we observe Sirius and Orion from Giza today (fig 3, right), Sirius is actually lower in the sky with Orion higher.  They’re reversed from what we observe in the Senemut ceiling.

In figure 4 (below), notice how the planets on the Senemut astronomical ceiling are positioned just above the red central line, as are Orion and Sirius. This shows the planets aligned along a line known as the line or plane of the ecliptic – a theoretical line that the sun, moon and planets all appear to move along.

Orion-Sirius-Below-Ecliptic.jpg.190a0e45c77d8a5aff2dc75f1b9c1353.jpg

Figure 4. Orion, Sirius and the Planets move along the ecliptic line.

However, when we look at Orion and Sirius from Giza today, (fig. 4, lower image), we find that these stars are below the ecliptic line, not above it as shown on the Senemut ceiling. Again – they’re reversed.

Now, here’s the thing.  ALL of the above reversals/inversions are completely resolved when we consider the sky at Giza from an inverted Earth perspective, as in fig. 5 below):

Giza-Inverted-Heavens.jpg.37eb249582dc9cb3f4d8d60d17474d28.jpg

Figure 5. The Northern Sky of the Southern Hemisphere (today). (Note: For ease of comparison, the Senemut Ceiling here has been inverted to present it as it would be seen by someone sitting on the floor looking upwards at it).

Notice how:

  1. On the Senemut Ceiling, Orion is to the west as is Orion in the night sky. They match.
  2. On the Senemut Ceiling Isis/Sirius is higher (taller) than Sah/Orion which is also what we now see in the northern night sky of the southern hemisphere. They match.
  3. Notice how on the Senemut Ceiling, Orion and Sirius are shown above the ecliptic line, just as they now are in the northern night sky of the southern hemisphere. They match.

There are other features of the Senemut Astronomical Ceiling that are suggestive of a once inverted Earth, but I’ll leave those for another time.

Taking this evidence from Senemut together with all of the ancient Egyptian references to a sun-horizon reversal / Earth inversion, along with the Surid ‘legend’ as to why the pyramids were built, I personally do not think that we should be so quick to dismiss what these ancient sources have to say.  I think only the arrogant and ignorant would do that.

SC

Your inability to read hieroglyphs here really hampers you.

FIRST - when you're inside the chapel, the ceiling appears just like this:

220px-Astronomical_Ceiling%2C_Tomb_of_Senenmut_MET_DT207429.jpg

Sirius is on the left; Orion on the right.  No, even if you sit down and look up, that's still how the ceiling looks.  It's not flipped.

Second, that's not the "ecliptic plane."  That's the "bottom of this part of the illustration."  You have four illustrated areas with text in them plus star borders plus a register of writing in the middle.

The illustrated areas include the names of the hours of the night ("decans") and in spite of what you might think is a weird orientation, the decans show that the left side is the east and the right side is the west.  You don't have to stand on your head.  They very clearly wrote that this was the ceiling's orientation. (The Constellations of the Egyptian Astronomical Diagrams, Gyula Priskin, ENiM 12, 2019, p. 137-180 « ENiM - Une revue d’égyptologie sur internet (enim-egyptologie.fr))

It shows Sirius rising before Orion.

All the writing there (and it's four panels, not two as you seem to think, plus a center register) shows the night sky as we see it now.  This is not evidence of anything except:

  • The Egyptians had a very poor method for recording the sky
  • Their sky looked like ours - and had the same observations as every other culture at that time
  • You have no idea what's actually going on in that illustration.

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, Windowpane said:

On the subject oScott's claim ( #29 ) that:

 

 

Not from the last ten years, admittedly: but, in Void (as some readers might recall) Scott relies heavily on the work of George F. Dodwell (who, amongst other things, believed in the literal truth of Noah's Flood) and in particular on:

CHAPTER  1: THE MOVEMENT OF THE EARTH’S AXIS OF ROTATION IS EVIDENCE OF A  
               DISTURBANCE OF THE EARTH’S AXIS IN ANCIENT TIMES

in a posthumously published paper entitled The Obliquity of the Ecliptic

(Dodwell's work is discussed here).

But even he didn't believe the Earth flipped over!

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9 minutes ago, Thanos5150 said:

Not to confuse the issue, but as an aside the 19th Dynasty, namely prince Khaemweset, did take a keen interest in restoring several old kingdom monuments and statues and was active at Giza as well. 

An excellent point and an interesting one.  There were several such restorations, I think, but not on any great scale and not any that carried through over many dynasties.

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4 hours ago, atalante said:

The poles of Earth's magnetic field have "flipped" sereval times in the extremely distant past.  But that should only affect whether a magnetic compass points to the north or south.   

https://climate.nasa.gov/explore/ask-nasa-climate/3104/flip-flop-why-variations-in-earths-magnetic-field-arent-causing-todays-climate-change/#:~:text=Magnetic Pole Reversals&text=While that may sound like,the past 160 million years.

"Paleomagnetic records tell us Earth’s magnetic poles have reversed 183 times in the last 83 million years, and at least several hundred times in the past 160 million years. The time intervals between reversals have fluctuated widely, but average about 300,000 years, with the last one taking place about 780,000 years ago."

Bah, what tomfoolery is this? Magnetic poles reversing themselves? Next you're going to tell me they take "excursions" even more frequently.

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5 hours ago, atalante said:

The poles of Earth's magnetic field have "flipped" sereval times in the extremely distant past.  But that should only affect whether a magnetic compass points to the north or south.   

https://climate.nasa.gov/explore/ask-nasa-climate/3104/flip-flop-why-variations-in-earths-magnetic-field-arent-causing-todays-climate-change/#:~:text=Magnetic Pole Reversals&text=While that may sound like,the past 160 million years.

"Paleomagnetic records tell us Earth’s magnetic poles have reversed 183 times in the last 83 million years, and at least several hundred times in the past 160 million years. The time intervals between reversals have fluctuated widely, but average about 300,000 years, with the last one taking place about 780,000 years ago."

I'm pretty sure this is NOT about the magnetic poles. Not even the Slavic Poles.

:P

Edited to add:

It's about THESE poles:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geographical_pole

If they switch places because a rogue black hole or giant planet passes us by, we and the whole planet will be fkd.

In theory it could also happen when a gigantic volcano forms close to one of the geographic poles.

In short: the effect will be that the earth, from our perspective, will rotate in the opposite way, upside down.

Edited by Abramelin
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42 minutes ago, Abramelin said:

I'm pretty sure this is NOT about the magnetic poles. Not even the Slavic Poles.

:P

Edited to add:

It's about THESE poles:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geographical_pole

If they switch places because a rogue black hole or giant planet passes us by, we and the whole planet will be fkd.

In theory it could also happen when a gigantic volcano forms close to one of the geographic poles.

In short: the effect will be that the earth, from our perspective, will rotate in the opposite way, upside down.

I'll bet @Waspie_Dwarfcan explain it lots better than I did.

 

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52 minutes ago, Abramelin said:

I'm pretty sure this is NOT about the magnetic poles. Not even the Slavic Poles.

:P

Edited to add:

It's about THESE poles:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geographical_pole

If they switch places because a rogue black hole or giant planet passes us by, we and the whole planet will be fkd.

In theory it could also happen when a gigantic volcano forms close to one of the geographic poles.

In short: the effect will be that the earth, from our perspective, will rotate in the opposite way, upside down.

True polar wander, yes. I think the giant volcano idea relates to a change in the center of mass? Hence the large volcanoes on Mars hanging out equatorially.

Alas, such a thing, at least recently, has about a 2-3 degree per million year speed limit, if I recall correctly.

Point of fact, it's happening now. Ice sheets reorganize a lot of mass.

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2 hours ago, Kenemet said:

Your inability to read hieroglyphs here really hampers you.

FIRST - when you're inside the chapel, the ceiling appears just like this:

220px-Astronomical_Ceiling%2C_Tomb_of_Senenmut_MET_DT207429.jpg

Sirius is on the left; Orion on the right.  No, even if you sit down and look up, that's still how the ceiling looks.  It's not flipped.

 

I think the real problem here is your reading of English. Why do you think Alexander Pogo commented that "...Orion appears east of Sirius..." and that "... Orion, the most conspicuous constellation of the southern sky, appeared to be moving eastward - in the wrong direction." Certainly not because of what you present above.

Take the image you present, print it out and place the printed image above your head with the southern panel to the south. Look up at your printed image and you will find Orion is to the EAST of Sirius when it should be to the WEST - just as Pogo pointed out and as I tried to show you with this image:

Orion-East-of-Sirius.thumb.jpg.8ef626e24560e3c1ff9b98884484adf1.jpg

 

Quote

Second, that's not the "ecliptic plane."  That's the "bottom of this part of the illustration."  You have four illustrated areas with text in them plus star borders plus a register of writing in the middle.

I'm not saying it is the ecliptic plane. I'm saying all the planets and the sun move along this same invisible line in the sky (which I merely highlighted with a red line for clarity). It's this arrangement (line) of the planets on the Senemut ceiling relative to Orion and Sirius locations that is being pointed out (whether we call it the ecliptic path or not - that's what it is). This astronomical ceiling presents Orion and Sirius slightly above the line of the planets (i.e. the planets that follow the path of the ecliptic). That can only happen in the northern sky of the southern hemisphere and is not what we see at Giza (at any time).

Orion-2500AD-Meridian-Transit.jpg.1db386ff666082eeb44515fd1aa5582a.jpg

The image above (from Giza) is Orion's Belt at meridian transit (its highest point in the sky) during its maximum culmination ~2500 CE (again the highest point the Belt stars will ever reach). Notice how the sun and the planets are arranged along the path of the ecliptic.  Notice how Orion and Sirius are well below the line of the sun and the planets (i.e. below the invisible path of the ecliptic). That's not what is being shown in the Senemut Ceiling where Orion and Sirius are presented ABOVE the line of the planets (i.e. above the invisible path of the ecliptic). The arrangement of Sirius and Orion being above the line of the planets can only be seen in the southern hemisphere, thus:

Orion-2500AD-Meridian-Transit-SH.jpg.902ba46b6c555cb5b532e1ef231ae7c8.jpg

 

SC

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13 minutes ago, Doc Socks Junior said:

True polar wander, yes. I think the giant volcano idea relates to a change in the center of mass? Hence the large volcanoes on Mars hanging out equatorially.

Bingo!

13 minutes ago, Doc Socks Junior said:

Alas, such a thing, at least recently, has about a 2-3 degree per million year speed limit, if I recall correctly.

Correct again.

13 minutes ago, Doc Socks Junior said:

Point of fact, it's happening now. Ice sheets reorganize a lot of mass.

But the scenario suggested in this thread is, that it happened "suddenly". Or better: Velikovsky style: Venus was a rogue planet captured by our sun. It entered our solar system, and passed our rock quite close, and caused the tilt/flip. And Velikovsky was convinced it really happened because the Sumerians/Babylonians (?) never mentioned Venus before a certain time. Btw., I have read (and own) a couple of his books.

 

But, if all that really happened, we wouldn't be here discussing it.

Edited by Abramelin
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@Scott Creighton

You know a lot more about the AE than I ever will.

But... I DO know a bit about physics.

And the scenario you are trying to defend - the sun rising in the west - is utter bs.

 

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13 minutes ago, Abramelin said:

@Scott Creighton

You know a lot more about the AE than I ever will.

But... I DO know a bit about physics.

And the scenario you are trying to defend - the sun rising in the west - is utter bs.

 

There are many, many ancient sources, including several ancient Egyptian sources, that say it happened. There's an astronomical ceiling that presents the sky as it would have been observed from an inverted earth perspective. There's other evidence I'll be coming to that also suggests these events are, from time-to-time, a part of Earth's oribital dynamics - just as Plato tells us. I don't think these are mere coincidences.

If, however, you're happy to believe it's all just one big coincidence and that the ancients were all hallucinating or didn't know what they were seeing, I'm not stopping you.

SC

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1 minute ago, Scott Creighton said:

 

If you're happy to believe it's all just a big coincidence and that the ancients were hallucinationg or didn't know what they were seeing, I'm not stopping you.

Did you watch that disaster movie  "2012"?

Many people around the globe believed those socalled 'Mayan prophesies' to be true. Kids killed themselves because they trusted what their parents told them. I posted on this same forum it was bs. And also why it was bs. Even the 2012 date was wrong.

I guess you were probably sh!tting your pants, heh.

And I tell you: that movie doesn't even come close to what would happen if the earth really tilted over 180°.

-

And no, you cannot stop me.

I am probably as stubborn as you are - I do have my crazy theories - but at the end I accept losing an argument because I have to accept facts I didn't know about, posted by people more informed about some topic than I am.

 

Btw., my brother gave me a book as a present  half a year ago. Guess what: a book written by you.

:lol:

 

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4 minutes ago, Abramelin said:

Did you watch that disaster movie  "2012"?

Many people around the globe believed those socalled 'Mayan prophesies' to be true. Kids killed themselves because they trusted what their parents told them. I posted on this same forum it was bs. And also why it was bs. Even the 2012 date was wrong.

I guess you were probably sh!tting your pants, heh.

And I tell you: that movie doesn't even come close to what would happen if the earth really tilted over 180°.

-

And no, you cannot stop me.

I am probably as stubborn as you are - I do have my crazy theories - but at the end I accept losing an argument because I have to accept facts I didn't know about, posted by people more informed about some topic than I am.

 

Btw., my brother gave me a book as a present  half a year ago. Guess what: a book written by you.

:lol:

 

It all comes down to what measure of credibility you give to the ancient sources that tell us these things happened.  When I hear the same or similar events being told by different people from all over the ancient world, I sit up and take notice.

But hey - each to their own.

SC

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3 hours ago, Scott Creighton said:

Taking this evidence from Senemut together with all of the ancient Egyptian references to a sun-horizon reversal / Earth inversion, along with the Surid ‘legend’ as to why the pyramids were built, I personally do not think that we should be so quick to dismiss what these ancient sources have to say.  I think only the arrogant and ignorant would do that.

SC

Hm, do you believe that in Senenmut's time the Earth was flipped and the Sun rose in the West. It's not a trick question, my answer will depend on your answer, and will be ontopic and pertinent to the ceiling in his tomb, and another structure.

Edited by Wepwawet
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5 minutes ago, Wepwawet said:

Hm, do you believe that in Senenmut's time the Earth was flipped and the Sun rose in the West. It's not a trick question, my answer will depend on your answer, and will be ontopic and pertinent to the ceiling in his tomb, and another structure.

It's uncertain. The astronomical ceiling could just as easily have been passed down for who knows how many generations. Perhaps Senemut thought that this being the sky of his ancestors, it would bring him closer to them so had it placed in his tomb.  Who knows?

SC

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4 minutes ago, Scott Creighton said:

It all comes down to what measure of credibility you give to the ancient sources that tell us these things happened.  When I hear the same or similar events being told by different people from all over the ancient world, I sit up and take notice.

But hey - each to their own.

SC

Yes, each their own.

But myths are most often exactly that: myths.

 

Anyway, now you try to imagine what would happen if the earth would tilt over a 180° and rotate the opposite way, and what it would do to the earth's crust, the continents, and... the seas.

We are here chatting like nothing happened, but if your scenario ever took place, we wouldn't be here.

At all.

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On 7/29/2023 at 12:00 PM, Wepwawet said:

You have made claims, you have quoted various sources, one of them Velikovsky about the nature of Horakhty, yet you then say that Velikovsky did not say what you say he did, but something like it. Your other source, Silverman, says nothing at all about the pertinent point, that Horakhty "rises in the west".The text on the pyramidion of Amenemhet III goes against you, yet you brush that aside with a gnomic post.

At the moment it seems that you willingly made a false statement, and try to brush this aside as "low hanging fruit". So, can you in fact produce your evidence about the nature of Horakhty, then, when I see the text you say you are quoting from, preferably with a note about it's primary hieroglyphic source, I can make my mind up as to what this is actually all about. I make my own mind up, I don't need you to tell me that my mind is already made up, thank you, so, please show your evidence.

Hi Wepwawet

His whole proposal is low hanging fruity.

Edited by jmccr8
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3 minutes ago, Scott Creighton said:

It's uncertain. The astronomical ceiling could just as easily have been passed down for who knows how many generations. Perhaps Senemut thought that this being the sky of his ancestors, it would bring him closer to them so had it placed in his tomb.  Who knows?

SC

It could have been passed down of course, but this ceiling is the first of it's kind, with the exception of the designs on some coffins, which nobody is suggesting are proof of the world turned upside down. The consensus is that Senenmut depicted, as best he could by their knowledge and artistic conventions, the night sky in his own time. The other structure is the Djeser-djeseru, which Senenmut designed for Hatshepsut. This mortuary temple is orientated to face the rising Sun on the winter solstice, so the temple faces East towards Karnak, which I think answers the question as to whether the Earth was flipped in his time, it was not.

 

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12 minutes ago, Abramelin said:

Anyway, now you try to imagine what would happen if the earth would tilt over a 180° and rotate the opposite way, and what it would do to the earth's crust, the continents, and... the seas.

We are here chatting like nothing happened, but if your scenario ever took place, we wouldn't be here.

At all.

Certainly Earth would be far from a pleasant place to be and we would need to make plans to find a way of surviving such an event (just as we are told Surid did with the building of the pyramids aka 'Recovery Vaults').  But if these ancient accounts are correct, then clearly the inversion event is not quite the ELE that many people seem to believe it would be - we did survive it. And if it does happen again, we'll almost certainly survive that too.

SC

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3 minutes ago, Scott Creighton said:

Certainly Earth would be far from a pleasant place to be and we would need to make plans to find a way of surviving such an event (just as we are told Surid did with the building of the pyramids aka 'Recovery Vaults').  But if these ancient accounts are correct, then clearly the inversion event is not quite the ELE that many people seem to believe it would be - we did survive it. And if it does happen again, we'll almost certainly survive that too.

SC

I do hope @Waspie_Dwarfshows up.

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