skyeagle409 Posted July 30, 2023 #26 Share Posted July 30, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, Trelane said: For those who are weary of the same old Roswell tune with nothing to show for it. This is a link to the 1997 Air Force report; https://media.defense.gov/2010/Oct/27/2001330219/-1/-1/0/AFD-101027-030.pdf Once again, you have allowed yourself to become duped by the Air Force's Roswell Reports. Basically, the Air Force said the small alien bodies people saw in 1947 were test dummies and accident victims of the 1950s. Seriously??? Let's take a look here. AF Roswell Study Contributor Admits, "It Was ET!" The Lt. Colonel who was a major contributor to the Air Force's official 1997 study that concluded that the Roswell ET crash of 1947 is a "myth", now states that the Air Force's Roswell report is itself a lie. The Colonel goes further to state that what he really believes to be true is that aliens actually did crash to Earth decades ago! He adds that he was "used" and that the author of the Air Force report "was on a mission" with no interest in discovering what really happened at Roswell. In the Air Force's publication Roswell Report: Case Closed (authored by Intelligence Officer Captain James McAndrew in 1997), the Roswell crash is debunked. The report serves as the US Air Force's official and "final word" on the matter. Captain McAndrew explains in the Air Force report that "crash test dummies" that dropped from airplanes were mistaken by witnesses for the rumored Roswell "aliens". Madson also expressed to McAndrew that the period of time in which these dummy drop tests occurred could not possibly coincide with the time of the Roswell event – the events were too many years apart from one another. McAndrew listened – but did not comment – on Madson's opinion. Madson also told McAndrew that "we were testing with these 6' dummies to try to protect grown men. The aliens reported at Roswell were said to be child-sized." In fact, McAndrew's Roswell report did not include Madson's real opinion on the matter at all! It appears as though McAndrew wanted to get desired comments out of Madson to be later used to support the crash dummy program explanation for the alien bodies. McAndrew took Madson's words and placed them in the Air Force debunking report in such a way that it did not convey the truth about the way Madson actually felt about the nature of the Roswell event! UFO Explorations | AF Roswell Study Contributor Admits, "It Was ET!" The 1997 Roswell Report mentioned Project Mogul from the Air Force's 1994 Roswell Report, which was another attempt by 1st Lt. McAndrew to coverup the Roswell Incident. Case in point from the 1994 Roswell Report: Report on Project Mogul Synopsis of Balloon Research Findings by JAMES McANDREW, 1st Lt, USAFR (14) In recent interviews with former NYU personnel, Dr. Athelstan F. Spilhaus, NYU Director of Research, and Professor Charles B. Moore, NYU Constant-Level Balloon Project Engineer, stated that they were never informed of the classified name, MOGUL, nor did they ever have access to the scientific data that was obtained by the USAAF as a result of their efforts. In response to inquiries, professional or casual, project personnel simply said that they were engaged in balloon research. I find a bit of a problem with the Air Force's report on Charles B. Moore that says Charles B. Moore was never informed of the classified name, MOGUL. Charles B. Moore had some explaining to do when a letter surfaced that named him as head of Project Mogul. Project Mogul balloon flights were not classified and were sometimes recovered by civilians for rewards. Rancher Sid West recovers Project Mogul balloon train June 8, Sun. Rancher, Sid West, found balloon train 25 mi south of High Rolls in mountains. Contacted him and made arragements to recover equipment Monday. Got all recordings of balloon flights. Took Treland, Mears, Winton, Olsen to Alamogordo to catch train this pm June 9, Mon. Bill Godbee and Don Reynolds went out to Sid West's ranch south of High Rolls and brought back recovered balloons- clock, 2 radiosondes, sonobuoy and microphone and lower part of dribbler. Bill Edmondson cleaning up hanger and sorting out equipment of NYU. Worked Why was there no weather balloon cover story for rancher Sid West's balloon recovery? The balloon flights were also published in newspapers across the country. The Published Balloon Flights Princeton_July12 (homestead.com) Lt. McAndrews should have added in the report that Charles B. Moore issued a report that he tracked a flying saucer during the course of his work. Charles B. Moore of Project Mogul Tracked a Flying Saucer INCIDENT 3 On April 24, 1949 at 10:20 a.m., a group of five technicians under the general supervision of J. Gordon Vaeth, an aeronautical engineer employed by the Office of Naval Research, were preparing to launch a Skyhook balloon near Arrey, N. Mex. A small balloon was sent up first to check the weather. Charles B. Moore Jr., an aerologist of General Mills Inc. (pioneers in cosmic ray research) was tracking the weather balloon through a theodolite – a 25-power telescopic instrument, which gives degrees of azimuth and elevation (horizontal and vertical position) for any object it is sighted on. At 10:30 a.m. Moore leaned back from the theodolite to glance at the balloon with his naked eye. Suddenly he saw a whitish elliptical object, apparently much higher than the balloon, and moving, in the opposite direction. At once he picked the object up in his theodolite at 45 degrees of elevation and 210 degrees of azimuth, and tracked it east at the phenomenal rate of 5 degrees of azimuth-change per second as it dropped swiftly to an elevation of 25 degrees. The object appeared to be an ellipsoid roughly two and a half times as long as it was wide. Suddenly it swung abruptly upward and rushed out of sight in a few seconds. Moore had tracked it for about 60 seconds altogether. The other members of his crew confirmed his report. No sound was heard, no vapor trail was seen. The object, according to rough estimations by Moore and his colleagues, was about 56 miles above the earth, 100 feet long and was traveling at seven miles per second. EVALUATION No known optical or atmospheric phenomenon fits the facts. A natural object traveling at seven miles per second has never been seen to make a sudden upward turn. There is no known or projected source of silent, vaporless power for such a machine. No human being could have borne the tremendous "G" load brought to bear on the craft during its abrupt vertical veer. SHG - LIFE Magazine, April 7, 1952: Have We Visitors From Space? (project1947.com) Those facts should shed some light on the magnitude of the Air Force's disinformation and misinformation campaigns on the Roswell Incident and how effective they were on folks who've allowed the Air Force to dupe them on many occasions. Edited July 30, 2023 by skyeagle409 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trelane Posted August 1, 2023 #27 Share Posted August 1, 2023 *soft music plays* "I'll write you a letter...." 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyeagle409 Posted August 1, 2023 #28 Share Posted August 1, 2023 (edited) 5 hours ago, Trelane said: *soft music plays* "I'll write you a letter...." The real name of the tune is: 'Reality Revealed.' Edited August 1, 2023 by skyeagle409 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trelane Posted August 2, 2023 #29 Share Posted August 2, 2023 *soft muisc continues* 'I'll write you a letter....please make sure to lose it in your 'archive' to only and conveniently resurface the week of Senate hearings on UFOS......ohhhh and I'll write you a letter." 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyeagle409 Posted August 2, 2023 #30 Share Posted August 2, 2023 (edited) 7 hours ago, Trelane said: *soft muisc continues* 'I'll write you a letter....please make sure to lose it in your 'archive' to only and conveniently resurface the week of Senate hearings on UFOS......ohhhh and I'll write you a letter." Okay, but I hope it contains evidence of the UFOs we have been talking about that they are man-made. Edited August 2, 2023 by skyeagle409 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trelane Posted August 2, 2023 #31 Share Posted August 2, 2023 *soft music continues* (signging continues) "I'll write you a letter..... and maybe someone will believe my incessant and ignorant claims. He has me on ignore but I feel compelled to post something everytime he does. Ohhhhhhh, I'll write you the sweetest letter. A letter that illustrates my feeble mind that can't grasp simple concepts and denies any information contrary to my fantasies. The letter is meant for youuuuuuu, It contains copy and paste rubbish that has beeen debunked and explained.....but shows my love for youuuuuuuu(ETs). yes.......I'll write you a letter...... a letter that argues from ignorance......just forrrr....youuuuuuu....." *soft music fades* 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zebra3 Posted August 2, 2023 #32 Share Posted August 2, 2023 I've talked with a few who lived in the area when it happened. Some had to relocate, some have their stories told, some haven't. It's weird talking with people who were actually there. They know, and they know why all the poo-pooer's come out in force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trelane Posted August 2, 2023 #33 Share Posted August 2, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Zebra3 said: I've talked with a few who lived in the area when it happened. Some had to relocate, some have their stories told, some haven't. It's weird talking with people who were actually there. They know, and they know why all the poo-pooer's come out in force. Who were they? What were their names? Where did they live exactly? When did they relocate/ Where they go? Why did they relocate? Edited August 2, 2023 by Trelane 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zebra3 Posted August 2, 2023 #34 Share Posted August 2, 2023 (edited) I posted all of that years ago. You can search for them if you're really interested. I mentioned no names though. Edited August 2, 2023 by Zebra3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trelane Posted August 2, 2023 #35 Share Posted August 2, 2023 1 hour ago, Zebra3 said: I posted all of that years ago. You can search for them if you're really interested. I mentioned no names though. I'm interested in people who have conviction in backing claims. You made a statement, and I inquired on details. You provided none so, so it's really more of the same. Stories and hand-waving. Same as it ever was... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyeagle409 Posted August 3, 2023 #36 Share Posted August 3, 2023 Daniel Drasin | Skeptical About Skeptics 9 hours ago, Trelane said: I'm interested in people who have conviction in backing claims. You made a statement, and I inquired on details. You provided none so, so it's really more of the same. Stories and hand-waving. Same as it ever was... I see that you continue to ignore what has been presented, so let's take a look here. Daniel Drasin | Skeptical About Skeptics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trelane Posted August 3, 2023 #37 Share Posted August 3, 2023 I certainly hope that Sky isn't trying to engage with me. I've had him on ignore but I have observed that he curiously posts something almost immediately after I do. I have no desire to talk to a liar and misguided and uninformed pillock. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piney Posted August 3, 2023 #38 Share Posted August 3, 2023 41 minutes ago, Trelane said: I certainly hope that Sky isn't trying to engage with me. I've had him on ignore but I have observed that he curiously posts something almost immediately after I do. I have no desire to talk to a liar and misguided and uninformed pillock. I don't put people on ignore. I just ignore them until they write something really dumb. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zebra3 Posted August 3, 2023 #39 Share Posted August 3, 2023 14 hours ago, Trelane said: I'm interested in people who have conviction in backing claims. You made a statement, and I inquired on details. You provided none so, so it's really more of the same. Stories and hand-waving. Same as it ever was... You'd just cut and paste your typical responses anyway. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trelane Posted August 3, 2023 #40 Share Posted August 3, 2023 46 minutes ago, Zebra3 said: You'd just cut and paste your typical responses anyway. A bit closed minded of you. You clearly don't read all of my responses. My responses have been consistent though. I simply look at and consider what is presented. If I question or reject something it's because science or facts don't support it. That shouldn't be much of a surprise. If you can't or won't answer, that's a 'you' problem. It just helps shape how I consider items and opinions provided by you. Thanks though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dejarma Posted August 3, 2023 #41 Share Posted August 3, 2023 17 hours ago, Zebra3 said: I mentioned no names though. well that leaves you free to make up any old BS you want- we can all do that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zebra3 Posted August 3, 2023 #42 Share Posted August 3, 2023 (edited) 57 minutes ago, Dejarma said: well that leaves you free to make up any old BS you want- we can all do that! Yeah, I could probably mention the names since debunking research goes about as far as 'pareidolia'. It was the typical responses last time, I'd expect nothing more this time. Edited August 3, 2023 by Zebra3 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trelane Posted August 3, 2023 #43 Share Posted August 3, 2023 I find it interesting how those who believe the ETH are very quick to shut down when presented with questions that should be rather easy to answer. Them: "Someone once told me/ showed me/ had a relative who...." Me: "What was their name?" Them: "Nevermind, you skeptics are all the same." Really though, and these "adults" say skeptics are the closed minded ones. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zebra3 Posted August 3, 2023 #44 Share Posted August 3, 2023 Loren Raines. Let me know what you find on him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trelane Posted August 3, 2023 #45 Share Posted August 3, 2023 3 hours ago, Zebra3 said: Loren Raines. Let me know what you find on him. Thank you. However, there's more to ask of course. Where did they live exactly? When did they relocate/ Where they go? Why did they relocate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zebra3 Posted August 3, 2023 #46 Share Posted August 3, 2023 I'll do a quick look for the post but I can't guarantee I'll find it. But: Los Alamos, 5-6 different locations, dad was threatened by the powers that be (he was Los Alamos security sent to Roswell at the time of crash). Anything else will be in the post if I find it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trelane Posted August 3, 2023 #47 Share Posted August 3, 2023 1 minute ago, Zebra3 said: I'll do a quick look for the post but I can't guarantee I'll find it. But: Los Alamos, 5-6 different locations, dad was threatened by the powers that be (he was Los Alamos security sent to Roswell at the time of crash). Anything else will be in the post if I find it. Thank you. I do appreciate it. I've been looking but not too sure based off of time frames and where they may have moved to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zebra3 Posted August 3, 2023 #48 Share Posted August 3, 2023 I can't even find anything on him. I know he was quiet about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyeagle409 Posted August 5, 2023 #49 Share Posted August 5, 2023 On 8/3/2023 at 4:01 AM, Trelane said: I certainly hope that Sky isn't trying to engage with me. I've had him on ignore but I have observed that he curiously posts something almost immediately after I do. I have no desire to talk to a liar and misguided and uninformed pillock. Why not?! Remember, reality is the name of the game, and that reality is, the Roswell incident involved extraterrestrials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyeagle409 Posted August 5, 2023 #50 Share Posted August 5, 2023 (edited) On 8/3/2023 at 4:01 AM, Trelane said: I certainly hope that Sky isn't trying to engage with me. I've had him on ignore but I have observed that he curiously posts something almost immediately after I do. I have no desire to talk to a liar and misguided and uninformed pillock. You have to prove it by posting man-made evidence, which you have failed to do. Now, measure up to the challenge and post it. While I am waiting, I would like to post a bit of history that can't be erased which proves just how gullible debunkers are and how they were corrected with a dose of reality. AIR FORCE RIDICULES UFO COVER-UP (Reported by CNN) "The report (1997 Roswell Report) released Tuesday repeated that assertion. It explained that the so-called alien bodies witnesses reported seeing in the desert in separate incidents (1947) were test dummies that were carried aloft between 1954 and 1959 by Air Force balloons, then dropped attached to parachutes." Now, for the reality that provides insight on how the Air Force made victims over its 1997 Roswell Report. PARTICIPANT IN DUMMY DROPS SCOFFS AT AF REPORT Dummies Weren't Classified, Says Retired Colonel A retired Air Force officer says he worked with high tech crash test dummies in the 1950s, and that there's no way they'd be confused with aliens described in rumors arising from the Roswell Incident. Lt. Col. (Ret.) Raymond A. Madson said he isn't buying the latest Air Force explanation of what occurred in Roswell in July 1947. The Air Force believes crash test dummies used in the 1950s were mistaken for the rumored 1947 aliens and UFO buffs just got their dates mixed up. Madson, 66, was project officer for Project High Dive at Holloman Air Force Base for four years starting in the 1950s. Madson said he sent photographs of Project High Dive dummies to the Pentagon for inclusion in the Air Force document, "The Roswell Report: Case Closed." But he said the dummies do not match the descriptions of the very small, almost childlike beings purported to have been seen in 1947 near Roswell. "They were testing these things (dummies) to try to protect grown men. They would never have used (dummies of) children for such experiments," he said. "The dummies were not covered up or hidden (when transported), and there was no security in the dummy drop phase of the experiments." And because the windblown dummies might end up falling just about anywhere, the Air Force even offered $25 rewards to local residents around Alamogordo to return the dummies to the base, he said. They were all stamped with labels identifying them as Air Force property, Madson said. Now, for some comic relief on Project Mogul balloon flight train #4, a balloon flight that never was, and test dummies of the 1950s that had nothing to do with the Roswell Incident in 1947. The following link provides a classic example as to why it is not prudent to rely on Roswell debunkers and their skeptic websites. You will notice that Charles B. Moore is mentioned, but did they say anything about Charles B. Moore's report where he reported tracking a flying saucer?! The Roswell Incident at 70: Facts, Not Myths The Roswell Incident at 70: Facts, Not Myths | Skeptical Inquirer Edited August 5, 2023 by skyeagle409 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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