Iran Has 12 Strategic Cruise Missiles

[Erikl]

I was just going to ask if you were still out there, Erikl. Could you tell us what is going on in Israel or what people's thoughts are on Iran? I mean their thoughts about Iran right now.

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People react as Iran act - when the Iranian government act and talk of the total destruction of Israel, and when Iranian religious leaders give speeches about how it is a religious obligation to destroy Israel, and when the Iranians keep on financing terrorism against Israelis both in the disputed territories and abroad, what else could the common Israeli think?

We have deep respect for the Iranian people, for few reasons, and I don't think I have ever came accross anti-Iranianism here. For virtualy all Israelis, the agression and hatred shown by the Iranian government is illogical, as Jews and Iranians have no conflict against each other, Israel has never threatened Iran (quite the opposite - Iran and Israel were close allies till the Islamic coup of 1979).

For this reason, most Israelis see Iran as a huge threat, because there is no logical solution to this weird attitude of Iran towards Israel (how can there be a logical solution to a situation that has no logic in it in the first place? ). This is different from the situation with the Palestinians and the Arab countries, where the Israeli public is divided (the left basically thinks that giving up land and appeasing the Arabs, who Israel share borders with and violent history, will bring peace, while the right basically thinks that in order to have peace Israel should first earn the respect of the Arabs by showing that it is determined to defend itself and it's interests, and only then when the Arabs will understand that Israel is here to stay and not a temporary situation, will peace arrive. Both camps obviously see peace with the Arabs as Israel's leading strategy, but both believe in different paths. In the case of Iran, no such division exists because no one here see the logic behind Iran's hatred of Israel. We do not share borders with Iran. We were never at war with Iran - we were actually close allies.).

All Israelis, both left wing and right wing, fear the day Iran will go nuclear.

At first we believed the US and the EU will be able to bring a diplomatic solution (you must understand that the fear of a nuclear Iran is so big here that Israelis actually put faith in the EU ), or hoped that the Iranian people will rise against their dark regime and will create their own democracy.

But as the point of no-return is getting closer, we are all starting to understand that Israel will have no choice but to take care of itself once more, just as it did in 1981.

I'm afraid I see a huge war coming near our area .

May god have mercy on us all .

Edited April 23, 2005 by Erikl

[zephyr]

Israel has never threatened Iran

we are all starting to understand that Israel will have no choice but to take care of itself once more, just as it did in 1981

hmm... contradictions, contradictions, and all that in just one post!

Just a reminder; Iran is not Iraq and it's not 1981 anymore, neither will the slightest military action against Iran go unanswered or be limited within Iran's borders only. So, I suggest people think very hard before taking a dangerous and crazy action that they themselves won't be able to control the outcome of, unless of course all the tough talk coming from all sides is pure propaganda designed to score short term political points, which is most likely what it really is!

I'm afraid I see a huge war coming near our area

And a good way to avoid such a war is for Israel to sign all the pertinent international treaties concerning nuclear weapons, respect the numerous UN resolutions, stop building walls in the 21st century, walk the way of peace with the Palestinians, control the religious fanatics in their own country, stop finding scapegoats and excuses thousands of miles away to pull attention away from its many problems that have been caused by decades of its own agressive policies, and choose moderates as their leaders in place of generals with dubious war time records.

As for the situation in Iran, the only thing we can surely say is that the less foreigners interfere blindly in this country's affairs, and the less they threaten the country, the better it is for everybody, and we'll be able to resolve our internal problems quicker and certainly with much less danger. Therefore I strongly recommend people worry about their own country's problems and politics and let the Iranians worry about theirs, thank you very much!

[Erikl]

hmm... contradictions, contradictions, and all that in just one post!

How was that condradicting in anyway?

Israel has never threatened Iran in the past and never acted against it, but as an Israeli I expect my country to prevent a country that wants to see mine destroyed from getting weapons of mass destruction. This is called the will of survival.

I hope though that you as an Iranian citizen and your fellow citizens will take responsibility and over throw your religious fanatic government.

And a good way to avoid such a war is for Israel to sign all the pertinent international treaties concerning nuclear weapons

When all it's neighbors want to destroy it, and use tactics of crimes against humanity (terrorism is still such a crime), I see no reason for Israel to do so.

stop building walls in the 21st century

I suggest then that the EU will stop building wall as well. As a matter of fact, maybe we should also drop the wall in Cyprus, in the border of Mexico and the US, etc..

The border is being built in order to stop uncontroled passage of Palestinians who comit terrorist acts into Israel. Most terrorists to this date used illegal means to enter Israel, not the conventional passages used by Palestinian workers.

walk the way of peace with the Palestinians

I think Israel has done more than any other country would have done in our place. There are two sides to this conflict you know. Don't be childish and think that the Palestinians are not to blame here as well.

control the religious fanatics in their own country

In Israel, religious fanatic organizations are regarded as terrorists and are acted against. In Iran, they rule the country since 1979 .

stop finding scapegoats and excuses thousands of miles away to pull attention away from its many problems that have been caused by decades of its own agressive policies, and choose moderates as their leaders in place of generals with dubious war time records.

LOL! and what Iran has been doing? How is the wall in the disputed territories, religious fanatics in Israel, and the relations between the Palestinians (who are sunni Arabs btw.... meaning not even of the same religious sect as most Iranians that Iran can claim some sort of co-religious sentiment) is any of Iran's business? Iran has been using Israel as a scapegoat since 1979, to the level that it's call for Israel's destruction and active work towards this goal is coming from it's direction on a daily basis.

For some bizzare reason, Iran has decided that Israel is it's arch-nemesis, yet Israel has done nothing to the Iranian people.

This is the perfect example of scapegoat.

On the other hand, it is a known fact that Iran practically built Hezbollah who killed thousands of Israelis (and still uses violence against Israelis even though Israel retreated from Lebanon 5 years ago) and Islamic Jihad (a Palestinian terrorists organization). For this reason and the fact that Iran announces almost everyday that Israel should be eliminated, Israel's view that Iran is a threat is not scapegoating at all, but mere resposne to Iran's unexplained agression.

You want to talk about Unexplained Mysteries? here is one - why Iran hates Israel so much? what has Israel done to Iran that makes Iranian officials announce their wish for Israel to disappear and for Iran to finance and arm terror organizations that kill Israelis?

[Babs]

Wow! What a question. What's your answer zephyr?

From what Erikl says, it seems to me, the illogical hatred of Iran toward Israel must be because your mullahs are terrorists. (they must be the backbone of terrorism )

[zephyr]

How was that condradicting in anyway?

Saying that Israel has never threatened Iran on one hand:lol: and saying it's o.k for Israel to bomb Iran because we, and only we think that might be necessary on the other hand! Now if that's not contradictory, I don't know what is!

but as an Israeli I expect my country to prevent a country that wants to see mine destroyed from getting weapons of mass destruction. This is called the will of survival.

No need to get emotional, erik! It's the word "prevent" I have difficulties to digest! Will of survival? You see that's what's dangerous, finding justification for conflicts and wars that can only cause death and destruction. Based on your logic, anybody could wage war on anybody else and find reasons for it, there would be no end to it; very dangerous attitude indeed.

I suggest then that the EU will stop building wall as well

very good idea; whatever wall you're talking about. I hate walls, just bring them all down.

Don't be childish and think that the Palestinians are not to blame here as well.

I'm not arguing for or against the Palestinians, neither am I arguing for or against the Iranian government or any other government or cause for that matter. What I'm saying is that it's very dangerous to easily find justifications for bombings or wars as you are doing, I'd rather be childish than dangerous to myself and others!

In Israel, religious fanatic organizations are regarded as terrorists and are acted against

That's good! I wonder then who those lunatics were when they tried to overtake the Qods-e-sharif the other day!

On the other hand, it is a known fact that Iran practically built Hezbollah

We've had this discussion before, nonetheless I'll try to refresh your mind! Hezbollah was born as the result of Israeli occupation of Lebanon. Now who helped them with what, is secondary to the main cause of Hezbollah's birth, which was of course Israel itself and its aggressive occupation of Lebanon. Blaming Iran for the existance of Hezbollah is like blaming the Americans for the problems in N.Ireland. The problem in Ireland was a local and a deep rooted one, others such as the Irish Americans who might have helped the IRA, etc... did not create that problem in the first place.

You want to talk about Unexplained Mysteries? here is one - why Iran hates Israel so much? what has Israel done to Iran that makes Iranian officials announce their wish for Israel to disappear and for Iran to finance and arm terror organizations that kill Israelis?

I think you should ask the Iranian officials those questions since I'm not their spokesman. What I can tell you though is that there are a lot more important issues and problems in Iran than the destruction of Israel. I for one don't even know what that means and how and at what cost it can be achieved and what benefits it will bring to Iran, except wars and misery. As far as I know there is no item in the Iranian government's budget assigned to the destruction of Israel, any rhetoric to that effect (destruction of Israel) should only be seen as exactly that, rhetoric, and this is far from being a valid reason for Israel to make the big mistake of actually resorting to some childish, bad boyish action that they and everyone else will regret later.

There is no unexplained mystery in this case, dangerous warmongering is what there is plenty of though!

Edited April 23, 2005 by zephyr

[zephyr]

Wow!  What a question.  What's your answer zephyr?

Are you having fun Babs, making erik and I have a nice little friendly chat?

As for terrorists; you know that they come in all forms and shapes, some wear ties and some turbans, some are white and some are black, there have even been some yellow ones. Some speak English and might live in neat little houses that are white, while others might roam the mountains and their caves and speak in codes and strange languages nobody understands. Some get themselves elected to high offices in very respectable countries, others might impose themselves on the poor people of a small country. One thing is sure though, there are more of them around than you and I think!

[Babs]

zep....I want to know just as others do what's going on. Your argument skirts the issues. Very clever, but I don't buy it.

zep wrote:

Saying that Israel has never threatened Iran on the one hand: LOL: and saying it's okay for Israel to bomb Iran because we, and only we think that might be necessary on the other hand! Now if that's not contradictory I don't know what is!

Now you know that that doesn't make any sense. It's pretty straightforward what Erikl said and you come in and twist it around to fit your argument. An argument, I might add, that doesn't gel.

I see the rest of your post as you not having a leg to stand on, you are generalizing and making pretty platitudes.

Question: what's this about an incident with the Qod's?

Edited April 24, 2005 by Babs

[Babs]

Erikl wrote:

On the other hand, it is a known fact, Iran pratically built Hezbollah

And zep writes:

We've had this discussion before, nonetheless, I will try to refresh your mind! Hezbollah was born as a result of Israeli occupation of Lebanon. Now who helped them with what, is secondary to the main cause of Hezbollah's birth...

What! Secondary? Answer the question, that seems like a lot of double talk, zep. And wasn't Israel there for a good reason?...I seem to remember Erikl telling us a while back.

And then Erikl asks you a perfectly ligitmate question, "Why does Iran hate Israel?"...and your answer:

I think you should ask the Iranian officials those questions since I am not their spokesman. What I can tell you is that there are alot more important issues and problems in Iran than the destruction of Israel.

Notice you didn't deny it. You admit it is true. You then go on to rationalize, making bad *** threats telling the world you better not start anything with Iran or... bang!

Come on, zep, I don't buy it. It sounds to me that you are fending off questions 'for your government', and for your people, you wouldn't want to put Iran in a bad light. I can understand that. But don't think that we are fools.

Edited April 24, 2005 by Babs

[Babs]

I don't know?... If a country has rhetoric about the destruction of Israel and is trying to get nukes...what does that tell you? And, zep says, if anyone tries to meddle in Iran or stop them, Iran will bring destruction down on all of us. Am I understanding your message here, zep?

It sounds to me that you are desperate. Your threats are to back us all off your land and your agenda. I don't know really what your politics are, but it is coming in 'loud and clear' that you don't have control, that the Iranian people don't have control. Your leaders sound like a big bad bullies lashing out in the schoolyard.

Personally, I think your threats are empty and will not back us down. If you are in the wrong or your country is a terror state and/or you harbour terrorists, you wil be dealt with. Trust me, even if your threats are real, we will prevail or we will continue 'our agenda' .

Edited April 24, 2005 by Babs

[zephyr]

Don't get too excited Babs! You could have said everything in one post.

I think erik is big enough to make his points known, what you've got to worry about is to understand what people are talking about before getting all worked up and making strange comments!

What you took as threats were in reality the conclusions drawn using erik's own arguments about the situation and not threats of any sort from my personal self to your personal self, or from my country to yours, I DO NOT represent the Iranian government. If Iran is ruled by crazy dangerous fanatics, then would it make sense to want to attack them? Anybody doing that is a dangerous, warmongering lunatic themselves, that's the point I was trying to make to erik! And no, Israel's invasion and occupation of Lebanon was not a good thing. And yes, Israel threatens Iran on daily basis, of course some warmongers currently residing in Washington join them from time to time as well. If Erik and/or you deny this fact, then we must not be living on the same planet.

You talk about what erik says as if he is the holder of the absolute truth. Anyway, You go ahead buy what you want Babs, I for one buy only the truth, irrespective of the color it might have or from where or whom it might come. I just hope there are enough reasonable and informed people out there who recognize the vital need to hold the dogs of war on leash.

As for the rest of your nonsense about desperation and dealing with me etc..., I'm sorry to inform you that I don't see them worthy of a reply. However I'll be glad to answer any logical questions you might have, that's provided I know the answers of course.

As for me not being clear, I must say I try my best to be clear enough for an open eye, can't do much for closed ones though!

Sorry, almost forgot; the incident involved some extremist lunatics trying to overrun the Al-Aqsa mosque the other day. Erik can tell you better if they got locked up or not, one would expect so since Jewish extremist groups are declared as terrorists in Israel.

[Dan'O]

Iran has some cruise missles so what? The Nazis had them 60+ years ago. Iran most likely, does not have nukes for them anyway. Perhaps they might in the future. The original arcticle didn't even mention US comments except: "closely monitoring". Not sure why the whole US vs Iran thing came up. Besides perhaps Iranian government support of known terrorist organizations.

Also the article is wrong with respects to strategic cruise missles.

"Iran shares this asset with only two other world powers, the United States and Russia"

There are other countries that deploy strategic cruise missles. Not just Iran, "United States and Russia". Besides a few other countries the French have been doing it for 20 yrs...

Either way theocracies should not have nuclear weapons IMO. I don't care about possible delivery systems though. If the Iranian Mullahs ever use nukes it would probably be the last thing they ever do.

[Babs]

Pardon me, but I remember on several occasions you telling the U.S. it would be better and smarter if they didn't push anything with Iran. That Iran will surprize everyone.

I know Erikl can take care of himself, I'm not taking up for him... and I'm not excited. I like how you talk and think you are a reasonable person, but I can still disagree and not buy into your spiel, can't I? And, of course, I have questions and will continue to have questions as things pick up out there; you are our man on the street. I just hope you don't take it personally and go running off.

P.S. ...I am sorry I can't type very fast or very good, please bear with me; I know that my posts should be 'one post' at times, but I get worried that I will be cut off at the stroke of midnight ( by the board), and lose my post altogether (which has happened to me). So, I post in installments.

Edited April 25, 2005 by Babs

[wunarmdscissor]

he has never made a threatening post once babs, what he said was that us attacking Iran would be abd for us ALL, him included he has always stated that.

you are just reading things that arent there.

[zephyr]

Either way theocracies should not have nuclear weapons IMO.

I agree, but it would be a much safer world if we enlarged that scope to all forms of governments with no exceptions since even in democracies, dangerous lunatics might somehow get elected to high offices.

I remember on several occasions you telling the U.S. it would be better and smarter if they didn't push anything with Iran. That Iran will surprize everyone

You remember right Babs, and I still say the same thing, with respect to military adventures of course. I think the US should push hard to establish full diplomatic relations with Iran, especially now that the situation in the ME is extremely sensitive and volatile and the US and Iran seem to be two major players in the region with merging strategic interests. Most of the present problems can be solved by patient, wise diplomacy and smart politics; not with dangerous warmongering which will make things much more complicated than they already are.

I can still disagree and not buy into your spiel, can't I

Of course you can Babs! However, what I write here is not for bargaining or threats, just a humble effort to show the realities on the ground as I see them. By no means do I pretend that what I say is the only and absolute truth and am more than happy to be learning from everyone on this board.

he has never made a threatening post once babs

Thank you wun; I needed that confirmation from someone who knows how to read. I was beginning to believe that I might have turned into a threatening wild beast!

[Babs]

zephyr....The realities as you see it. True. This doesn't necessarily mean that 'your reality' is your government's reality.

What I don't care for is: you telling the U.S. to back off because your country will reign down destruction upon us and the world at large. I think these are empty desperate threats. You are between a rock and a hard place, zephyr.

If you think_ and you have said this_ that Iran can come up against the United States, "You are as crazy as your mullahs."

[Babs]

I was just going to ask if you were still out there, Erikl. Could you tell us what is going on in Israel or what people's thoughts are on Iran? I mean their thoughts about Iran right now.

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People react as Iran act - when the Iranian government act and talk of the total destruction of Israel, and when Iranian religious leaders give speeches about how it is a religious obligation to destroy Israel, and when the Iranians keep on financing terrorism against Israelis both in the disputed territories and abroad, what else could the common Israeli think?

We have deep respect for the Iranian people, for few reasons, and I don't think I have ever came accross anti-Iranianism here. For virtualy all Israelis, the agression and hatred shown by the Iranian government is illogical, as Jews and Iranians have no conflict against each other, Israel has never threatened Iran (quite the opposite - Iran and Israel were close allies till the Islamic coup of 1979).

For this reason, most Israelis see Iran as a huge threat, because there is no logical solution to this weird attitude of Iran towards Israel (how can there be a logical solution to a situation that has no logic in it in the first place? ). This is different from the situation with the Palestinians and the Arab countries, where the Israeli public is divided (the left basically thinks that giving up land and appeasing the Arabs, who Israel share borders with and violent history, will bring peace, while the right basically thinks that in order to have peace Israel should first earn the respect of the Arabs by showing that it is determined to defend itself and it's interests, and only then when the Arabs will understand that Israel is here to stay and not a temporary situation, will peace arrive. Both camps obviously see peace with the Arabs as Israel's leading strategy, but both believe in different paths. In the case of Iran, no such division exists because no one here see the logic behind Iran's hatred of Israel. We do not share borders with Iran. We were never at war with Iran - we were actually close allies.).

All Israelis, both left wing and right wing, fear the day Iran will go nuclear.

At first we believed the US and the EU will be able to bring a diplomatic solution (you must understand that the fear of a nuclear Iran is so big here that Israelis actually put faith in the EU ), or hoped that the Iranian people will rise against their dark regime and will create their own democracy.

But as the point of no-return is getting closer, we are all starting to understand that Israel will have no choice but to take care of itself once more, just as it did in 1981.

I'm afraid I see a huge war coming near our area .

May god have mercy on us all .

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I was very moved by this post, Erikl.

[Babs]

Please do not take offense, zephyr, I read every word you say and want to hear what's going on.

[Babs]

Donald Rumsfeld said on tv today that money comes from Iran into Syria to support the insurgents in Iraq. There are other governments that are supporting the insurgents too.

[I am me]

Donald Rumsfeld said on tv today that money comes from Iran into Syria to support the insurgents in Iraq. There are other governments that are supporting the insurgents too.

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just like all those guys were going around saying that iraq had WMDs, etc...

why believe him now?

[sanchera1978]

well since rumsfield said it must be true. Becuase we all know politicians NEVER LIE and always tell us the truth.

[zephyr]

Donald Rumsfeld said on tv today that money comes from Iran into Syria to support the insurgents in Iraq. There are other governments that are supporting the insurgents too.

591411[/snapback]

There's something that doesn't make sense though! Given that the terrorists in Iraq are sworn enemies of the Shiite population (their latest crime involves the kidnapping and cold blooded murder of 50 Shiits whose bodies were found floating in the Tigris, plus a few bombings of Shiit mosques), and given that the Shiits in Iraq are considered as 'infidels' by terrorists who come mainly from Jordan and S.Arabia, it would be extremely surprising if anybody in Iran was helping those lunatics to murder the Shiits in Iraq.

Rumsfeld is probably getting the wrong type of information as usual. It must also be hard for him to be pointing the finger at someone who's walking romantically hand in hand with his boss at a certain ranch in Texas!

[Babs]

Using some way out logic there...I don't get it...what are you saying about the Shiites?

I think that was cute, Bush and Mr. Saudi. Do you think one of your mullahs would like to hold Bush's hand?

Edited April 27, 2005 by Babs

[zephyr]

What don't you exactly get, Babs? I thought I was clear enough, but let me try to explain in more details what I already said in my last post.

You see, the terrorists currently active in Iraq have already murdered more Iraqi Shiits than all other nationalities put together. They have bombed Shi'a holy sites and mosques. Their leader, the famous Jordanian terrorist Al-Zarqawi, the one who has been appointed as the 'Emir' in Iraq by Ben-Laden and co., has declared the Shias as 'infidels'. Even the grand Ayatollah Sistani has not been left out of the terrorists' black list, they just have not been able to get to him, and I really hope they never will, as this will surely lead to a civil war in Iraq which will take that country back to the middle ages; which is of course the ultimate goal of the backward terrorists and their supporters.

Now given that Iran is a Shia dominated country, and that its rulers are Shia clerics, and also given the fact that there are some very strong links between the Iranians and their Shia counterparts in Iraq, the allegations coming from Rumsfeld, of Iranian support for terrorists who are concentrating on terrorizing the Shias in Iraq do not make any sense at all and are full of contradictions with the actual events taking place in Iraq. If these allegations were true, and the Iranians were really helping the murderers of the Iraqi Shiits, how do you think those people (the Iraqi Shiits) would feel about their brothers in Iran? How well do you think helping those who bomb some of the Shiism's most holy sites, would go down with the Shia population of both Iran and Iraq? What benefit do you think all this would have for Iran or her rulers? The last thing anybody wishes to see in Iran, is an unstable Iraq, involved in a bloody civil war and roamed by dangerous terrorists. In other words, Iran's interests are NOT the same as the interests of the terrorist gangs coming to Iraq from Jordan or S.Arabia. (there have been instances of armed terrorists arrested on the border between S.Arabia and Iraq).

I think either Rumsfeld is getting the wrong intelligence, or he has some real political constraints for naming the countries that are REALLY sending terrorists to Iraq, constraints that are caused by the fact that those terrorist exporting countries happen to be US allies. Rumsfeld needs a scapegoat to explain to the world and to the American people where those monstrous terrorists are coming from and why the occupiers have not been able to control them after more than two years. What scapegoat is there better than Iran? Just put the blame on the Iranians for the moment, who cares what happens tomorrow! Only problem for people like Rumsfeld is that the events on the ground in Iraq are beginning not to quite match up to his allegations and theories anymore, he'll have to come up with something more convincing soon instead of always singing the same old songs!

[Babs]

Pray tell, who are these allie countries exporting terrorists to Iraq?

Edited April 27, 2005 by Babs

[whoa182]

A bit more news on iran us and israel

Washington: The Pentagon has notified Congress of a proposed US sale to Israel of 100 guided bunker-busting bombs, a move raising concerns about a unilateral Israel strike against Iran.

Israel has requested the GBU-28s worth about $US30 million ($39 million), the Pentagon's Defence Security Co-operation Agency said in a notice required by law for government-to-government military sales.

The Lockheed Martin GBU-28 was developed to penetrate command centres deep underground and would be used by the Israeli Air Force on its US-built F-15 aircraft, the agency said.

Israel - believed to be the Middle East's only nuclear-armed state - has denied speculation that it might make a military strike on Iran to prevent it from producing an atomic bomb.

In 1981 Israeli jets attacked an Iraqi reactor, driving Saddam Hussein's quest for a bomb underground.

The Pentagon agency said the sale of the GBU-28s would "not affect the basic military balance in the region".

Loren Thompson, of the Lexington Institute in Virginia, said: "This particular munition is designed to destroy deeply buried high-value assets such as command centres or nuclear weapons facilities. Draw your own conclusions."

Congress has 30 days to reject the planned military sale.

Edited April 27, 2005 by whoa182