Telepathy

[+Desertrat56]

45 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

I believe it has already been proven scientifically to be a weak but real human ability in thousands of controlled studies.

And, yes, if society encouraged the development of psychic abilities, it would be a bigger and more accepted thing. But scientific-materialism has held the power sway in the last century or more.

I would be interested in reading those scientific studies that have proved it.   Do you have books or links you can recommend?  

[papageorge1]

1 hour ago, Desertrat56 said:

I would be interested in reading those scientific studies that have proved it.   Do you have books or links you can recommend?  

Basically it works like this. In a controlled test of guessing which of four targets the unseen sender is thinking of, the receiver should be correct 25% of the time per normal science. If after thousands of tests by a large number of labs (meta-analysis) the senders are typically hitting around 32%, then we can say they have shown a weak but real effect. At some point it becomes billions to one against just lucky guessing.

“After a century of increasingly sophisticated investigations and more than a thousand controlled studies with combined odds against chance of 10 to the 104th power to 1, there is now strong evidence that psi phenomena exist. While this is an impressive statistic, all it means is that the outcomes of these experiments are definitely not due to coincidence. We’ve considered other common explanations like selective reporting and variations in experimental quality, and while those factors do moderate the overall results, there can be no little doubt that overall something interesting is going on. It seems increasingly likely that as physics continues to redefine our understanding of the fabric of reality, a theoretical outlook for a rational explanation for psi will eventually be established

 

Dr. Dean Radin Parapsychologist

 

As you know by being on this forum for so long, there are materialist-skeptical types that will have none of this parapsychological stuff. They chalk all this up to bad experiments and the claim that only positive results are reported and negative ones discarded (methodological flaws). Claims strongly refuted by parapsychologists.

An Independant Professor of Statistics at the University of California was asked by the government to review these claims to see if they could have any application for the U.S. government.

AN ASSESSMENT OF THE EVIDENCE FOR PSYCHIC FUNCTIONING

Excerpt:

ABSTRACT

Research on psychic functioning, conducted over a two decade period, is examined to determine whether or not the phenomenon has been scientifically established. A secondary question is whether or not it is useful for government purposes. The primary work examined in this report was government sponsored research conducted at Stanford Research Institute, later known as SRI International, and at Science Applications International Corporation, known as SAIC.

Using the standards applied to any other area of science, it is concluded that psychic functioning has been well established. The statistical results of the studies examined are far beyond what is expected by chance. Arguments that these results could be due to methodological flaws in the experiments are soundly refuted. Effects of similar magnitude to those found in government-sponsored research at SRI and SAIC have been replicated at a number of laboratories across the world. Such consistency cannot be readily explained by claims of flaws or fraud.

 

As you know, our skeptic friends will have none of it. For me, the experimental results confirm what I and many intuitively have believed that telepathy is real, but it is not a strong and reliable ability though.

Edited August 18, 2023 by papageorge1

[+Desertrat56]

12 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

Basically it works like this. In a controlled test of guessing which of four targets the unseen sender is thinking of, the receiver should be correct 25% of the time per normal science. If after thousands of tests by a large number of labs (meta-analysis) the senders are typically hitting around 32%, then we can say they have shown a weak but real effect. At some point it becomes billions to one against just lucky guessing.

“After a century of increasingly sophisticated investigations and more than a thousand controlled studies with combined odds against chance of 10 to the 104th power to 1, there is now strong evidence that psi phenomena exist. While this is an impressive statistic, all it means is that the outcomes of these experiments are definitely not due to coincidence. We’ve considered other common explanations like selective reporting and variations in experimental quality, and while those factors do moderate the overall results, there can be no little doubt that overall something interesting is going on. It seems increasingly likely that as physics continues to redefine our understanding of the fabric of reality, a theoretical outlook for a rational explanation for psi will eventually be established

 

Dr. Dean Radin Parapsychologist

 

As you know by being on this forum for so long, there are materialist-skeptical types that will have none of this parapsychological stuff. They chalk all this up to bad experiments and the claim that only positive results are reported and negative ones discarded (methodological flaws). Claims strongly refuted by parapsychologists.

An Independant Professor of Statistics at the University of California was asked by the government to review these claims to see if they could have any application for the U.S. government.

AN ASSESSMENT OF THE EVIDENCE FOR PSYCHIC FUNCTIONING

Excerpt:

ABSTRACT

Research on psychic functioning, conducted over a two decade period, is examined to determine whether or not the phenomenon has been scientifically established. A secondary question is whether or not it is useful for government purposes. The primary work examined in this report was government sponsored research conducted at Stanford Research Institute, later known as SRI International, and at Science Applications International Corporation, known as SAIC.

Using the standards applied to any other area of science, it is concluded that psychic functioning has been well established. The statistical results of the studies examined are far beyond what is expected by chance. Arguments that these results could be due to methodological flaws in the experiments are soundly refuted. Effects of similar magnitude to those found in government-sponsored research at SRI and SAIC have been replicated at a number of laboratories across the world. Such consistency cannot be readily explained by claims of flaws or fraud.

 

As you know, our skeptic friends will have none of it. For me, the experimental results confirm what I and many intuitively have believed that telepathy is real, but it is not a strong and reliable ability though.

Dean Radin, ok.  That is not what I was thinking of.   I have an app on my phone that my grandson used to  love to play with called ESP Trainer.   It is similar to what you describe except it is 20 pictures and the game is not about what someone else is thinking but being able to predict the next photo.   He liked it because the photos are of intersting places like the pyramids.  It keeps track of how many you get right out of 20 tries and there is a rating.   

[XenoFish]

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Dean_Radin

[+Desertrat56]

28 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Dean_Radin

Yep.

[XenoFish]

On 8/18/2023 at 2:42 PM, Desertrat56 said:

I would be interested in reading those scientific studies that have proved it.   Do you have books or links you can recommend?  

I've got something better. @Alchopwn

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7937662/

[Piney]

6 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

I've got something better. @Alchopwn

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7937662/

I talked about this before. That little chunk of magnetite in the prefrontal cortex is a person's natural compass. 

[XenoFish]

34 minutes ago, Piney said:

I talked about this before. That little chunk of magnetite in the prefrontal cortex is a person's natural compass. 

I chalk a lot of 'telepathy' to the effect of mirror neurons. Given that reading a person on a unconscious level would be key to survival, a bad feeling could save a life. 

[Piney]

11 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

I chalk a lot of 'telepathy' to the effect of mirror neurons. Given that reading a person on a unconscious level would be key to survival, a bad feeling could save a life. 

I can't read facial expressions, but I can read a person's personality in a way my wife and I discussed, but can't figure out. 

[XenoFish]

8 minutes ago, Piney said:

I can't read facial expressions, but I can read a person's personality in a way my wife and I discussed, but can't figure out. 

I'm adept at reading people. Always have been. How they stand, tone of voice, movements, subtle facial expressions. Flips the switches in my brain. 

[Piney]

2 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

I'm adept at reading people. Always have been. How they stand, tone of voice, movements, subtle facial expressions. Flips the switches in my brain. 

I think it's all kinds of those nuances too. It probably comes with practicing energy work. Your observations are heightened. 

[XenoFish]

2 minutes ago, Piney said:

I think it's all kinds of those nuances too. It probably comes with practicing energy work. Your observations are heightened. 

Possibly. Been that way since I was a kid though. 

Edited August 26, 2023 by XenoFish

[Piney]

1 minute ago, XenoFish said:

Possibly. Been that way since I was a kid though. 

Not me. I was in autistic "Stockholm mode" until I was in my mid 20s.

 

[XenoFish]

20 minutes ago, Piney said:

Not me. I was in autistic "Stockholm mode" until I was in my mid 20s.

 

I was a sensitive kids, so there's that.

[lightly]

Spacetime can curve?   Everything is basically some sorts of energy fields…right?  (areas of interactive curvatures?)    I wonder if there are more variables in the ways things interact than is currently understood.  .and maybe shortcuts through/within  the  Universe.  I know it sounds Kookoo ,but, is there anywhere that isn’t here?..did the alleged singularity (one) which is expanding (during this cycle?) become plural?    Anyway,  How many times have you heard someone, (immediately after hearing someone say something),  say  I was just thinking that!*!*      Here, allow me. .            

Edited August 26, 2023 by lightly

[lightly]

3 hours ago, Piney said:

I talked about this before. That little chunk of magnetite in the prefrontal cortex is a person's natural compass. 

My dad’s seemed to work really well ,seemed he could always tell which way was north.     Mine doesn’t seem to work .    But Xeno’s  link about the brain’s magnetic field is very interesting in regard to people ‘picking up’ other’s thoughts.   (electromagnetic..sort of static electricity)   ..but it wouldn’t explain long distance occurrences?    (unless like I was talking about.. some sort of Universal shared proximity.)          Dunno;

Edited August 26, 2023 by lightly

[Antigonos]

On 8/18/2023 at 2:42 PM, Desertrat56 said:

I would be interested in reading those scientific studies that have proved it.   Do you have books or links you can recommend?  

There are none that can be said to have reliably objectively proved the reality of telepathy, (or clairvoyance and precognition) but I recommend the studies of Professor Joseph Banks Rhine of Duke University if you’re looking for an in depth look at scientific examination of this subject.

Rhine founded Duke University’s parapsychology lab, the Parapsychology Association and the Journal of Parapsychology. His studies were done at a time when scientists had been taking a serious interest in investigating paranormal phenomena for nearly fifty years. He was a member of England’s Society for Psychical Research which had been founded in 1882.

If you only read one work of his I would choose Extra Sensory Perception published in June 1935. For further reading I would recommend J.B.Rhine: Letters 1923-1939 ESP and the Foundations of Parapsychology in which his letters chronicle his efforts to find reliable evidence of psychic ability in the research lab.

Ultimately you have to decide what his research and conclusions are worth for yourself but I don’t think you’ll find a better or more sober treatment of the subject than Rhine’s examination of it. 

[+joc]

7 hours ago, Antigonos said:

There are none that can be said to have reliably objectively proved the reality of telepathy, (or clairvoyance and precognition)

So...there you go.  Woo.

[Antigonos]

1 hour ago, joc said:

So...there you go.  Woo.

Scientifically disproven woo. I think it’s important for people who believe in the reality of the supernatural  to understand that it’s not some dismissive, biased foregone conclusion on the part of scientists that these so called phenomena aren’t real. They have taken it seriously, gone through the process and put in the work to determine they are not. The devil is in the details, and the details of the scientific process in Rhine’s book and those of his peers provide logical pathways to understanding that. They showed their work, in other words, and though those who believe in the reality of psychic phenomena may find the conclusions or lack of solid evidence disappointing, IMO the research contained in these books and articles documenting the process at work are interesting and worthwhile intellectual journeys to take regardless.
 

 

Edited August 27, 2023 by Antigonos

[openozy]

2 hours ago, Antigonos said:

and though those who believe in the reality of psychic phenomena may find the conclusions or lack of solid evidence disappointing,

I don't find it disappointing at all coming from people that haven't experienced anything paranormal, I expect it.

2 hours ago, Antigonos said:

IMO the research contained in these books and articles documenting the process at work are interesting and worthwhile intellectual journeys to take regardless.

I'll rush out and buy a copy of it tomorrow, lol.

[openozy]

2 hours ago, Antigonos said:

Scientifically disproven woo.

 They can't disprove it at all, more like thrown into the too hard basket as they do because they don't like admitting their incompetency. 

Edited August 27, 2023 by openozy

[Alchopwn]

On 8/18/2023 at 11:15 PM, XenoFish said:

I have years of strange coincidences and odd synchronicities under my belt. I just find it foolish to assume it's supernatural, psychic, or paranormal. 

A month ago on a Thursday I was thinking about having some Mexican food. The next day my friend suggested hitting up a Mexican restaurant after work. I serious doubt I put a suggestion in his head. It's a coincidence. 

Psychic abilities create a causal problem.

For the most part I agree with you.  I could actually add a lot of caveats and disclaimers to your reservations.  I however have had a barely literate schizophrenic Kurdish boy starting psych care with me, unprompted, correctly identify that my mom had developed ovarian cancer (not his words, but "cancer of the eggs" is close enough imo), and that was why she was feeling sore. We hadn't properly met, or begun our session. He had never met my mom, who was living overseas at the time, and while I was treating him I was worried about her doctor's visit that day.  He said I had been telling him about it while I made coffee for us. out of sight, in the kitchenette attached to my office, but I hadn't said even one word about that subject or my private life, and it was our first session.  All I had been doing was let my mind drift onto the subject of my worries about my mother.  I never said a word, as the session is about my patient's problems, not mine, and I am very strict with myself about being professional.  For the record, the kid did this sort of thing a few times, but not as clearly and inexplicably.  You might call this the best example of the phenomenon, and I certainly wasn't expecting it.  I'd love to hear an explanation, because it stumped me.  I had no paperwork concerning my mother on my desk, not that he likely could have read it.  I hadn't made any phone calls regarding mom's situation for days, but I was planning to call her that evening.

Edited August 27, 2023 by Alchopwn

[Alchopwn]

19 hours ago, XenoFish said:

I'm adept at reading people. Always have been. How they stand, tone of voice, movements, subtle facial expressions. Flips the switches in my brain. 

You should have your lie detecting abilities tested.  If you are really good at it, you could have that highly marketable talent sought by law enforcement and intelligence services.

[openozy]

11 hours ago, Antigonos said:

If you only read one work of his I would choose Extra Sensory Perception published in June 1935.

A little outdated 

[XenoFish]

1 hour ago, Alchopwn said:

For the most part I agree with you.  I could actually add a lot of caveats and disclaimers to your reservations.  I however have had a barely literate schizophrenic Kurdish boy starting psych care with me, unprompted, correctly identify that my mom had developed ovarian cancer (not his words, but "cancer of the eggs" is close enough imo), and that was why she was feeling sore. We hadn't properly met, or begun our session. He had never met my mom, who was living overseas at the time, and while I was treating him I was worried about her doctor's visit that day.  He said I had been telling him about it while I made coffee for us. out of sight, in the kitchenette attached to my office, but I hadn't said even one word about that subject or my private life, and it was our first session.  All I had been doing was let my mind drift onto the subject of my worries about my mother.  I never said a word, as the session is about my patient's problems, not mine, and I am very strict with myself about being professional.  For the record, the kid did this sort of thing a few times, but not as clearly and inexplicably.  You might call this the best example of the phenomenon, and I certainly wasn't expecting it.  I'd love to hear an explanation, because it stumped me.  I had no paperwork concerning my mother on my desk, not that he likely could have read it.  I hadn't made any phone calls regarding mom's situation for days, but I was planning to call her that evening.

I have no good explanation except happenstance. I keep my suspicions on certain subjects at bay. Considering the article I posted hints at a type of telepathy, I'll stick with 99% doubt for now.