Telepathy

[Antigonos]

5 hours ago, openozy said:

A little outdated 

Old, but not outdated. Scientific research doesn’t become invalidated simply through the passage of time.

And the point was that these phenomena have been looked at objectively for a long time through the lense of science.

[openozy]

16 minutes ago, Antigonos said:

Old, but not outdated. Scientific research doesn’t become invalidated simply through the passage of time.

And the point was that these phenomena have been looked at objectively for a long time through the lense of science.

And never been disproved.

[Antigonos]

6 hours ago, openozy said:

I don't find it disappointing at all coming from people that haven't experienced anything paranormal, I expect it.

I'll rush out and buy a copy of it tomorrow, lol.

And you’re absolutely wrong. The men who founded the Society for Psychical Research were from various different scientific disciplines who all had personal experiences that they could not explain, hence their interest and vast efforts in trying to prove their reality. You see, they understood that personal experiences were purely subjective (like yours) and that just their saying so wasn’t good enough to prove what they experienced was objective reality. Hence the point of the investigations. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 27, 2023 by Antigonos

[Antigonos]

1 minute ago, openozy said:

And never been disproved.

No evidence = no proof.

[openozy]

2 minutes ago, Antigonos said:

Yeah, don’t bother. Books are for those who seek knowledge.

I won't, I have more than enough evidence for myself and that's all I care about. Books are so accurate, like the bible and the Dr Seuss collection, lol. Books are also good for people with no first hand knowledge, like yourself.

[openozy]

14 minutes ago, Antigonos said:

The men who founded the Society for Psychical Research were from various different scientific disciplines who all had personal experiences that they could not explain,

I wonder how they felt when they came up with no scientific evidence for their experiences. Oh, we must have just imagined them, poor fools.

[Antigonos]

42 minutes ago, openozy said:

And never been disproved.

Nobody would be more thrilled if the supernatural turned out to be real than me. I grew up fascinated by tales of ghosts and hauntings. Mostly from Europe because they went together with my interest in European history.
 

I enjoy rereading them to this day for a multitude of reasons. For instance, the Irish ghost hunter Elliott O’Donnell wrote a series of wonderful books in the early 20th century in which he traveled through the British Isles collecting accounts of supernatural phenomena. I still love rereading them because they are part travelogues, part history. He gathered information on old houses and families now gone, and  chronicled old ways of life that have since disappeared. He even wrote a  book called Animal Ghosts, collecting stories from rural residents about spectral animals which anyone who has ever lost a pet dog or cat will find touching.

So to sum up my position: I still have my interest in the supernatural, but I’ve become a skeptic (against my own original wishes mind you).  I weigh both sides of the question to get the most balanced picture of it that I can. I’m not a debunker. 

And in the interest of full disclosure here, some SPR members did end up believing in the reality of psychic phenomena. French astronomer Camille Flammarion was one such, I mean this guy was ALL IN. His books make for very entertaining reading. You’ll be swept up by his sheer enthusiasm for his subjects. I’d recommend those to you instead. Look for Mysterious Psychic Forces, Death and its Mystery (3 volumes) and Haunted Houses.

Haunted Houses is a collection of cases that he examines in depth. It makes a good companion to Sir Edwin Bennett’s Apparitions and Haunted Houses, and One Hundred Cases of Survival after Death by A.T. Bard.

One hypothesis I found interesting concerning telepathy to explain eyewitness accounts of apparitions was that just as it was a nonverbal form  of communication between two living minds, it was also so between a living mind and a disembodied one.

Anyway, I can’t and wouldn’t automatically discount what someone says they have personally experienced. You apparently have experienced something you can’t explain. I’m not trying to convince you otherwise. Just sharing some knowledge about a subject I find interesting.

 

 

Edited August 27, 2023 by Antigonos

[Alchopwn]

30 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

I have no good explanation except happenstance. I keep my suspicions on certain subjects at bay. Considering the article I posted hints at a type of telepathy, I'll stick with 99% doubt for now. 

And that is the reasonable thing to do XF.  I would never expect a person who hasn't had the experience to be anything other than skeptical.  I however don't have that luxury as I lived thru it.  I thought perhaps I had been running my mouth, stream of consciousness, in the kitchenette and just forgotten, but I realized that I had recently bought some truly excellent cookies and was scoffing one before putting them out on the platter, so my mouth was full and chewing.  I literally couldn't have been speaking.  

[Antigonos]

19 minutes ago, openozy said:

I wonder how they felt when they came up with no scientific evidence for their experiences. Oh, we must have just imagined them, poor fools.

There’s a difference between their professional conclusions and their personal feelings.

One doesn’t have to imagine their reactions, they actually wrote them down. 

[openozy]

4 minutes ago, Antigonos said:

So to sum up my position: I still have my interest in the supernatural, but I’ve become a skeptic (against my own original wishes mind you).  I weigh both sides of the question to get the most balanced picture of it that I can. I’m not a debunker. 

You have to be skeptical or you are living in fantasy land with yourself. I've had many hundreds or inexplainable paranormal experiences of many different kinds and it's why I'm passionate about this. I'm quite happy for anyone to debunk anything but they haven't apart from going back to it being unrealistic scientifically which is irrelevant to paranormal so a waste of time, at the moment anyway.

[Alchopwn]

On 8/26/2023 at 8:23 PM, XenoFish said:

I've got something better. @Alchopwn

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7937662/

Downloading that article.  Thanks muchly XF.  

You know... this might even explain it...  Perhaps my patient had an elevated level of something that made him sensitive to EMF, that would also account for his schizophrenia, because it produced a brain anomaly?  FFS, imagine you could reproduce the results, understand what caused it, and make a drug that duplicated the effect?

Edited August 27, 2023 by Alchopwn

[XenoFish]

8 minutes ago, Alchopwn said:

And that is the reasonable thing to do XF.  I would never expect a person who hasn't had the experience to be anything other than skeptical.  I however don't have that luxury as I lived thru it.  I thought perhaps I had been running my mouth, stream of consciousness, in the kitchenette and just forgotten, but I realized that I had recently bought some truly excellent cookies and was scoffing one before putting them out on the platter, so my mouth was full and chewing.  I literally couldn't have been speaking.  

As of late I've been rethinking a few of my positions. The only issue I really have with psychic abilities is accuracy and consistency. Well, also the highly exaggerated tales as well.

[XenoFish]

1 minute ago, Alchopwn said:

Downloading that baby.  Thanks muchly XF.  

You know... this might even explain it...  Perhaps my patient had an elevated level of something that made him sensitive to EMF, that would also account for his schizophrenia, because it produced a brain anomaly?  FFS, imagine you could reproduce the results, understand what caused it, and make a drug that duplicated the effect?

I think it would require a highly focused thought or intention. But I feel that if such a thing is real, it's likely a subconscious thing. A part of our information processesing system. That odd little hunch we sometimes get.

[Alchopwn]

Just now, XenoFish said:

As of late I've been rethinking a few of my positions. The only issue I really have with psychic abilities is accuracy and consistency. Well, also the highly exaggerated tales as well.

I don't think it is common at all (I might be wrong, and we may all do it a little bit all the time tho).  I also think it must be scientifically explicable.  It shocked me the first time I encountered it, but also intrigued me when I got over the shock. 

[openozy]

8 minutes ago, Antigonos said:

There’s a difference between their professional conclusions and their personal feelings.

One doesn’t have to imagine their reactions, they actually wrote them down. 

Nobody is a professional when it comes to this stuff, I try to be an apprentice but am really just an open onlooker.

[Alchopwn]

Just now, XenoFish said:

I think it would require a highly focused thought or intention. But I feel that if such a thing is real, it's likely a subconscious thing. A part of our information processesing system. That odd little hunch we sometimes get.

I would never pretend I had heard anyone's thoughts so I honestly couldn't say.  As I have said before, apparently psychics like the fact I have a very clear and readable mind.  Perhaps I should stop playing poker?  

[XenoFish]

2 minutes ago, Alchopwn said:

I don't think it is common at all (I might be wrong, and we may all do it a little bit all the time tho).  I also think it must be scientifically explicable.  It shocked me the first time I encountered it, but also intrigued me when I got over the shock. 

I've got experiences. Just don't feeling like dealing with the whole "prove it" crowd. Let's just say I'm questioning myself.

[Antigonos]

3 minutes ago, openozy said:

You have to be skeptical or you are living in fantasy land with yourself. I've had many hundreds or inexplainable paranormal experiences of many different kinds and it's why I'm passionate about this. I'm quite happy for anyone to debunk anything but they haven't apart from going back to it being unrealistic scientifically which is irrelevant to paranormal so a waste of time, at the moment anyway.

I can certainly understand being passionate about something, especially something on a deeply personal level. Understand that it isn’t my attention to attack you for stating that you have had your experiences nor is it personal. The fact is that I have never experienced anything paranormal myself, so being skeptical is logical for me until something happens which changes that. But it still doesn’t lessen my interest in the subject. 
 

 

[Antigonos]

9 minutes ago, openozy said:

Nobody is a professional when it comes to this stuff, I try to be an apprentice but am really just an open onlooker.

I absolutely agree with you.

Edited August 27, 2023 by Antigonos

[openozy]

6 minutes ago, Antigonos said:

The fact is that I have never experienced anything paranormal myself,

Are you sure of this, they can be subtle things that most people brush off. When I've talked about this stuff more than half of the people can recall something they can't explain and some don't really want to think about it, it's very taxing on your mind.

[openozy]

22 minutes ago, Antigonos said:

. Understand that it isn’t my attention to attack you for stating that you have had your experiences nor is it personal

No worries, I was born over sensitive to almost everything, it's probably the reason I pick up on things paranormal and after 60 years of living like this I can be slightly overeactive and a cranky old b******, lol.

[lightly]

38 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

I've got experiences. Just don't feeling like dealing with the whole "prove it" crowd. Let's just say I'm questioning myself.

I’m thinking lots of people have experiences that they don’t talk about for that very reason?   

[openozy]

14 minutes ago, lightly said:

I’m thinking lots of people have experiences that they don’t talk about for that very reason?   

One reason is because it is so profound and awe inspiring to the person experiencing it, having to feel like you have to prove it drains the life out of you. We as humans feel the need to be accepted.

[Antigonos]

35 minutes ago, openozy said:

Are you sure of this, they can be subtle things that most people brush off. When I've talked about this stuff more than half of the people can recall something they can't explain and some don't really want to think about it, it's very taxing on your mind.

I did have the same unusual experience four or five times the memory of which has stayed with me.

When I was living at home, I distinctly thought I heard my mother softly calling my name. I was on the second floor of the house, my mother on the first. We used to keep the door at the top of the stairs closed to keep our cats from getting into the bedrooms.

Each time I would go downstairs and ask my mom if she had called for me, and each time she would say “No but I was thinking about you”.

I know what I heard, it was a clearly audible sound. It sounded each time like she was murmuring softly “Tony?”, using the exact same inflection she would always use when calling to me.

It only happened a handful of times, the last of which was over 20 years ago. I have no explanation for it. I like to think it had something to do with the fact that my mother and I have always been close.

 

[openozy]

3 minutes ago, Antigonos said:

I like to think it had something to do with the fact that my mother and I have always been close.

Definitely, I wouldn't call that subtle and a biggy on the telepathy thread. I feel this is classed as paranormal but these things can't be repeated at will. This is the difficult part when it comes to proving it.