Why did god NOT save her?

[Will Due]

5 minutes ago, Dejarma said:

is that supposed to be some kinda logical analogy, is it?? Oh, please carry on 

 

The idea that the creation of the universe and the material evolution of everything in it happened all by accident is to be honest, quite a logical stretch of a massive proportion.

The initiation of what became the universe is chance number one. How many chances would it take to get from chance number one to the chance of the Earth coming into existence? Then the chance that life found a way to exist. And on and on.

Like I said, that adds up to WAY too many chances. Have you played Lotto? How many times have you won?

Something doesn't add up.

 

 

[Dejarma]

11 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

The idea that the creation of the universe and the material evolution of everything in it happened all by accident is to be honest, quite a logical stretch of a massive proportion.

The initiation of what became the universe is chance number one. How many chances would it take to get from chance number one to the chance of the Earth coming into existence? Then the chance that life found a way to exist. And on and on.

Like I said, that adds up to WAY too many chances. Have you played Lotto? How many times have you won?

Something doesn't add up.

 

 

all the amazing things that have to happen in order to create a baby human/ ant/ worm etc.. The complexity of it all, wow, do you not agree?

Yet there are over 7 billion humans on this planet, fek knows how many worms & ants....would you class all this as normal? i would... why can't the creation of life everywhere in the universe be as normal as this?

Edited August 26, 2023 by Dejarma

[Will Due]

2 minutes ago, Dejarma said:

all the amazing things that have to happen in order to create a baby human/ ant/ worm etc.. The complexity of it all, wow, do you not agree?

Yet there are over 7 billion humans on this planet, fek knows how many worms & ants

 

Yes, I agree. And for it all to happen by chance makes no logical sense to me.

 

 

[Dejarma]

1 minute ago, Will Due said:

 

Yes, I agree. And for it all to happen by chance makes no logical sense to me.

 

 

you need to question why you feel this, Will- you could be wrong, so could i but back to the topic question:

if your daughter died after praying for her life; would you still believe in god?

[Dejarma]

12 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

Yes, I agree. And for it all to happen by chance makes no logical sense to me.

 

 

yeah to you it doesn't.. Just like the man who beat the crap out of his wife because she crashed the car after being asked not to drive it..

To him he's justified

Edited August 26, 2023 by Dejarma

[Will Due]

 

Regarding the existence of pain and suffering, the premise of your thread, without it, there wouldn't be much to encourage men and women to make progress in the world. Would it?

Without pain and suffering, why would a cave dweller who was forced to deal with the discomfort of the cold and wind, the heat, and everything else associated with living at the mercy of the elements to make those progressive steps that ended up with us living in our cozy houses with all its pleasures?

Think of all the technological advances that we enjoy today because of all the pain and suffering that occurred during World War Ii. In that case, millions of people suffered and died. But without the war there would be many things that have increased our standard of living that would not exist.

Pain and suffering is essential to progress.

 

So sorry about your friend's daughter.

 

 

[Dejarma]

3 minutes ago, Will Due said:

Regarding the existence of pain and suffering, the premise of your thread, without it, there wouldn't be much to encourage men and women to make progress in the world. Would it?

yeah I agree but this is humans inflicting pain on other humans! Not a supposed god that appently looks after us all.

Why are you sorry about my friend's daughter?? It's gods will, is it not? If you're sorry then logically (cuz you like logic don't you) you disagree with gods decision to allow her to constantly--  vomit/ defecate/ feel like someone sticking a red hot iron rod into her bone marrow (that's how she explained it to me) --are you OK with that? If not then have it out with god for me.

My Christian friends can't/ won't because they've become extreme atheists - that's progress I guess

[Arbenol]

1 hour ago, Will Due said:

How many chances would it take to get from chance number one to the chance of the Earth coming into existence? Then the chance that life found a way to exist. And on and on.

Like I said, that adds up to WAY too many chances. Have you played Lotto? How many times have you won?

Something doesn't add up.

What doesn't add up is that you've failed to take into account how many planetary systems there are in the universe. If it was just Earth alone, I would agree with you. But it's reckoned there may be as many as 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 solar systems alone. That's a lot more than people who play the lottery, and someone wins that almost every week.

[+and-then]

2 hours ago, Dejarma said:

well no because god does not exist

You seem to have answered your own question by admitting your beliefs so, why ask the question at all?  Do you just want to harangue people who have faith?  Does that somehow bring you a sense of pleasure?  I have no idea why God allows suffering in children.  Hopefully, when I meet Him, I'll understand.  The main difference between those like you and persons of faith is that they KNOW they AREN'T God.  IMO, those who set themselves up in judgment of the Creator, already consider themselves to be the god of their own existence.  They are fully free to make that choice.  I've always found it to be odd that they refuse to acknowledge the right of others to differ.

[jmccr8]

 

Hi Dejarma

I can't offer much as I don't have a god so can't blame one for life's ills. All I can really do is give my respects for the loss of a child.

I do pray in a sense only it is to them or me and not a god for finding strength within ourselves to do what we have to do and make peace with it in the process. I guess in a way it help me prep myself to give them the kind of energy/perspective they need to either walk out the other side dead or alive..

I don't believe in eternal life or a something else so when I said walk out dead or alive my intent in use of dead is to walk out of life. period.

Kind of a grim topic, not that I am complaining but it seems personal to you about this girl's experience so am hesitant to say some things at this time but will if I see discussion that is progressing. Given the nature of the forum it should get side tracked in 3-4 directiins in the next couple of pages.

[jmccr8]

3 minutes ago, and-then said:

You seem to have answered your own question by admitting your beliefs so, why ask the question at all?  Do you just want to harangue people who have faith?  Does that somehow bring you a sense of pleasure?  I have no idea why God allows suffering in children.  Hopefully, when I meet Him, I'll understand.  The main difference between those like you and persons of faith is that they KNOW they AREN'T God.  IMO, those who set themselves up in judgment of the Creator, already consider themselves to be the god of their own existence.  They are fully free to make that choice.  I've always found it to be odd that they refuse to acknowledge the right of others to differ.

Hi And Then

It is a discussion forum, Dejarma isn't confused about what he believes given his posting history, it's the what or why others believe that he questions. In that sense he is not so different than me in curiousity even though we may be interested in different aspects of belief systems and how they affect individuals and their lives.

The forum is just an extention of availability to observe for me and have known both formally and some not (some people I have seen for years before I met/spoke them and knew them from my observatiions of their interactions)thousands if people from every walk of life.

What will I do with my observations? Measure myself and what I believe in about myself, wirh challenge there is growth and definition pushing yourself past your limitations no different than going to the gym.

[eight bits]

2 hours ago, Dejarma said:

Why are you sorry about my friend's daughter??

The poster is a human being, and remains so even if he disagrees with you about the Question of God. He has nothing to explain.

You're angry, and you're frustrated that you have nobody to be angry with.

I, too, am sorry to read about your friend's daughter. Your understanding is neither required nor requested.

[spartan max2]

4 hours ago, Will Due said:

 

The idea that the creation of the universe and the material evolution of everything in it happened all by accident is to be honest, quite a logical stretch of a massive proportion.

The initiation of what became the universe is chance number one. How many chances would it take to get from chance number one to the chance of the Earth coming into existence? Then the chance that life found a way to exist. And on and on.

Like I said, that adds up to WAY too many chances. Have you played Lotto? How many times have you won?

Something doesn't add up.

 

 

It's sort of a biased sample though. 

As it could have not happened a trillion billion times and we wouldn't be here to know. So naturally we would only know once it does all work out 

[spartan max2]

OP is one of the big reasons I'm atheist.

If God exist then he either causes bad things, or has the ability to stop them but chooses to do nothing. Which is almost worst. 

It seems more likely that God is just made up like all the other gods were 

[+Hammerclaw]

5 hours ago, Dejarma said:

i err um- nope you've lost me there.. what has ^this^ got to do with what you're replying to? i'm confused 

I'm not surprised.

[Essan]

It's needs to be a particular prayer in a particular church, in a particular style with a particular stuff, and for particular problems that aren't particularly tough, and for particular people, preferably white. for particular senses, preferably sight, a particular prayer in a particular spot, to a particular version of a particular god ....
 

 

[Crazy Horse]

7 hours ago, Dejarma said:

My Christian friends prayed to god for the life of their daughter who contracted cancer at the age of 2.

At the age of 12 she finally passed on after a life of EXSTREAM pain & suffering!!! Not only for her of course....

Answer this:

why did god NOT save her? Especially when god (it seems) gave her the fekin cancer in the first place! 

I've a strong feeling not many <Religious> folk will reply & attempt to explain why 

 

This must be an extraordinarily difficult time for all concerned. I wish them peace..

But, why wasn't those prayers answered?

That's a big question with many moving parts and we can try to reason-out as to why GOD, (or Spirit) didn't intervene. Because we know that not every prayer is answered. Which begs the question as to why some prayers are answered, and some are not?

And honestly, I don't believe that GOD gives us any disease, honestly, I put that down to ones own choices in life, which include past lives too.

 

[Crazy Horse]

7 hours ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

Because, as/if God encompasses all things that means He also encompasses suffering and injustice. 

I disagree.

Because we have free will - so that if one decides to turn away from love, from GOD, then one is actually inviting pain and misery and suffering too.

GOD doesn't create injustice, that would be mankind.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

2 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

I disagree.

Because we have free will - so that if one decides to turn away from love, from GOD, then one is actually inviting pain and misery and suffering too.

GOD doesn't create injustice, that would be mankind.

Of course you disagree. 
Mankind created cancer did it? Created parasites that live in peoples’ eyes? Wiped out humanity 40 times? 

[Crazy Horse]

6 hours ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

You asked why God allowed it … and my answer is “because that’s what God does sometimes” because If God exists and is omnipotent, omniscient and all encompassing, then God must also encompass all the worst things in life as well as all the good. These wishy-washy “God is love” people reduce God, and refuse to accept the full implications of what “all encompassing” means.

GOD pours forth nothing but love, yet how one wishes to see, experience that Spirit, is up to the individual.

In other words, one needs to take responsibility for the decisions one makes.

 

[Crazy Horse]

6 hours ago, Dejarma said:

why create 'the worst things in life'  in the first place?

How else could karma work?

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

Just now, Crazy Horse said:

GOD pours forth nothing but love, yet how one wishes to see, experience that Spirit, is up to the individual.

In other words, one needs to take responsibility for the decisions one makes.

 

My brother chose to have cancer did he? 
My friend chose for her eight year old to die, did she? 
My friend chose to have skyzophrenia did he? 

[Crazy Horse]

6 hours ago, Dejarma said:

well no because god does not exist

And you expect GOD to answer your prayers..?

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

2 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

GOD pours forth nothing but love, yet how one wishes to see, experience that Spirit, is up to the individual.

In other words, one needs to take responsibility for the decisions one makes.

 

Shall we play the “number of times God was anything other than loving in the Bible” game, shall we?

[Crazy Horse]

6 hours ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

No bloody idea. The mind of God is unknowable.

Because there are consequences for ones actions, good and bad.