Alabama seeks to test execution method on death row ‘guinea pig’

[Still Waters]

Kenneth Smith is one of two living Americans who can describe what it is like to survive an execution, having endured an aborted lethal injection last November during which he was subjected to excruciating pain tantamount, his lawyers claim, to torture.

Nine months later Smith has been singled out for another undesirable distinction. If the state of Alabama has its way, he will become the test dummy for an execution method that has never before been used in judicial killings and which veterinarians consider unacceptable as a form of euthanasia for animals – death by nitrogen gas.

Alabama has announced its intention to become the first state in the nation to kill a prisoner by forcing him to breathe pure nitrogen. The attorney general has asked the state supreme court to set a fresh execution date for Smith using the untested system.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/sep/02/alabama-execution-nitrogen-kenneth-smith

https://apnews.com/article/alabama-death-penalty-nitrogen-hypoxia-a6f414ff6147cbd38de6a8cd01f96653

[Edumakated]

For the life of me, I cannot understand the logic of government bureaucracy.  Just double tap him in back of head and get it over with.  Why do we need to come up with all these complicated methods for executing a death row inmate?  A proper headshot is probably instantaneous and he'd never feel a thing.

[Gromdor]

Well, dead is dead. Whether it i by lethal injection, gunshot, flame thrower, or meat grinder.

That being said, trying an experimental method on a convict that already survived a botched attempt does seem to fit into the "cruel and unusal" punishment category.

1 hour ago, Edumakated said:

For the life of me, I cannot understand the logic of government bureaucracy.  Just double tap him in back of head and get it over with.  Why do we need to come up with all these complicated methods for executing a death row inmate?  A proper headshot is probably instantaneous and he'd never feel a thing.

It's not practical.  Putting aside the psychological effects it would have on an executioner, there is also the health issues/hygiene issues that would result ffrom the mess.

Why don't we just kill them with Fentanyl?  It would make for a great deterrernce too.  'You are getting high off what we use to execute people!" would be a great message for the idiots among us.

[CrimsonKing]

32 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

Why don't we just kill them with Fentanyl?  It would make for a great deterrernce too.  'You are getting high off what we use to execute people!" would be a great message for the idiots among us.

Nah, wouldn't work as a deterrent...

Many know "tranq" is in their drug of choice already and just keep poppin till their skin rots off.

Hell as Edumakated said just get a killer who's already in prison and let them do the deed and the clean up for a few extra bucks in their canteen...only cost a bullet and a few bucks.

[Gromdor]

16 hours ago, CrimsonKing said:

Nah, wouldn't work as a deterrent...

Many know "tranq" is in their drug of choice already and just keep poppin till their skin rots off.

Hell as Edumakated said just get a killer who's already in prison and let them do the deed and the clean up for a few extra bucks in their canteen...only cost a bullet and a few bucks.

One of the laborers at work did time for accessory to murder.  His buddy shot a couple of girls at a pool hall and made him clean it up with two other fellows.  They thought they did a real good job but when cops came by to look for a guy with a warrant for arson, they new right away it was a murder scene.  They showed pictures in his trial and there was blood and stuff in all kinds of weird places they never thought it would be, let alone clean.  It was in stuff like the rim of the light fixtures, cracks in the bar seats. Even on the underside of the lip of the bar.  Long story short, shooting someone is very messy and people (especially criminals) aren't the best at cleaning up murder scenes.  Guns, especially high caliber ones, are too messy.  Giving a murderer a loaded gun to do the deed doesn't seem wise either.  He might be more inclined to shoot the guard than a fellow inmate.

I think it is best if done in a sanitary way.  One where the victim's relatives can witness without permanent psychological trauma.  

Could do like the Nazis and just make a gas chamber I suppose.

[WVK]

2 hours ago, Gromdor said:

One of the laborers at work did time for accessory to murder.  His buddy shot a couple of girls at a pool hall and made him clean it up with two other fellows.  They thought they did a real good job but when cops came by to look for a guy with a warrant for arson, they new right away it was a murder scene.  They showed pictures in his trial and there was blood and stuff in all kinds of weird places they never thought it would be, let alone clean.  It was in stuff like the rim of the light fixtures, cracks in the bar seats. Even on the underside of the lip of the bar.  Long story short, shooting someone is very messy and people (especially criminals) aren't the best at cleaning up murder scenes.  Guns, especially high caliber ones, are too messy.  Giving a murderer a loaded gun to do the deed doesn't seem wise either.  He might be more inclined to shoot the guard than a fellow inmate.

I think it is best if done in a sanitary way.  One where the victim's relatives can witness without permanent psychological trauma.  

Could do like the Nazis and just make a gas chamber I suppose.

Bring back the firing squad use volunteers and do out in the woods where the mess doesn’t matter 

[Raptor Witness]

Not a bad way to go, if it’s like what deep water divers experience. I wouldn’t be afraid to choose nitro.

[Tatetopa]

How about this, we execute them in a way you would like to be executed if you ever find yourself in that predicament.   Not to be too maudlin, but I held my old dog's head in my lap while she got an injection and went peacefully to sleep.

Side note, I don't think too highly of pet owners who refuse to share the pain and drop their pet off to a stranger to  suffer and be afraid at the end while looking for their best friend and being abandoned.   

[Myles]

I cannot feel any mercy for a guy who killed a wife of a pastor.   

[Edumakated]

15 hours ago, Gromdor said:

One of the laborers at work did time for accessory to murder.  His buddy shot a couple of girls at a pool hall and made him clean it up with two other fellows.  They thought they did a real good job but when cops came by to look for a guy with a warrant for arson, they new right away it was a murder scene.  They showed pictures in his trial and there was blood and stuff in all kinds of weird places they never thought it would be, let alone clean.  It was in stuff like the rim of the light fixtures, cracks in the bar seats. Even on the underside of the lip of the bar.  Long story short, shooting someone is very messy and people (especially criminals) aren't the best at cleaning up murder scenes.  Guns, especially high caliber ones, are too messy.  Giving a murderer a loaded gun to do the deed doesn't seem wise either.  He might be more inclined to shoot the guard than a fellow inmate.

I think it is best if done in a sanitary way.  One where the victim's relatives can witness without permanent psychological trauma.  

Could do like the Nazis and just make a gas chamber I suppose.

Electrocution isn't clean.  I guess cleanest is lethal injection, but then you get these weirdos talking about they feel pain and it is cruel.  I call BS.  I had surgery recently and was out in an instant when they turned on the anesthesia.  Didn't feel anything, nor do I even recall dreaming.  Just remember waking up after surgery.

The clean up is the least of my worries though.

 

[CrimsonKing]

4 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

How about this, we execute them in a way you would like to be executed if you ever find yourself in that predicament.   Not to be too maudlin, but I held my old dog's head in my lap while she got an injection and went peacefully to sleep.

Side note, I don't think too highly of pet owners who refuse to share the pain and drop their pet off to a stranger to  suffer and be afraid at the end while looking for their best friend and being abandoned.   

Better yet,we execute them the way they killed their victims...

Some do not deserve nor will they get the slightest sympathy from me,some of these sicko's should fear their last days,just as they made their victims suffer in fear.

 

Yep had to do the same for my favorite dog I ever had,I brought him home and buried him...he never hurt or took the life of anyone...Big difference!

[preacherman76]

13 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

How about this, we execute them in a way you would like to be executed if you ever find yourself in that predicament.   Not to be too maudlin, but I held my old dog's head in my lap while she got an injection and went peacefully to sleep.

Side note, I don't think too highly of pet owners who refuse to share the pain and drop their pet off to a stranger to  suffer and be afraid at the end while looking for their best friend and being abandoned.   

Exactly. I’d say either pump me full of huge doses of morphine till I stop breathing. Or shoot me in the head with a high caliber round, by a marksman. 
 

Oh man, when it was Isaiah’s time to go, I wouldn’t even bring her to a vet. I was going to do the deed myself. I knew I could do it quick, right before n our property. Now I didn’t want to do that, but no way was I going to let someone else do it while I was in a waiting room. What a betrayal that would be. 
 

Luckily my wife found a traveling Veterinarian who came to my home. We were all able to be right by his side. 

Edited September 4 by preacherman76

[WVK]

8 hours ago, CrimsonKing said:

Better yet,we execute them the way they killed their victims...

Some do not deserve nor will they get the slightest sympathy from me,some of these sicko's should fear their last days,just as they made their victims suffer in fear.

 

Yep had to do the same for my favorite dog I ever had,I brought him home and buried him...he never hurt or took the life of anyone...Big difference!

Regardless of method the real torment of capital punishment is knowing the date and time  of your death. Counting off the days….   

[CrimsonKing]

4 hours ago, preacherman76 said:

Exactly. I’d say either pump me full of huge doses of morphine till I stop breathing. Or shoot me in the head with a high caliber round, by a marksman. 
 

Oh man, when it was Isaiah’s time to go, I wouldn’t even bring her to a vet. I was going to do the deed myself. I knew I could do it quick, right before n our property. Now I didn’t want to do that, but no way was I going to let someone else do it while I was in a waiting room. What a betrayal that would be. 
 

Luckily my wife found a traveling Veterinarian who came to my home. We were all able to be right by his side. 

I didn't have to sit in a waiting room,sat right there petting him as he slipped away...

Guess different rules for different areas or from vet to vet,I'm the same way,if I couldn't be there I would have done it on my own.

[Tatetopa]

16 hours ago, Myles said:

I cannot feel any mercy for a guy who killed a wife of a pastor.   

I hear that, and I have the same primal instinct to tear anyone apart in the heat of the moment that would harm my family.   

After that, when they are trussed and bound for execution, the blood cools off.   At that point, I only care that they stop existing, because they are a danger to the rest of us.  I do not forgive, feel mercy or forget.

But, if I cut them into little pieces over weeks, their screams of agony will not help me sleep at night or bring back their victims. It doesn't help me get on with my life.  I just want them gone. Methods of execution  say more about the nature of the society than  the criminal.

[Tatetopa]

55 minutes ago, CrimsonKing said:

I didn't have to sit in a waiting room,sat right there petting him as he slipped away...

Guess different rules for different areas or from vet to vet,I'm the same way,if I couldn't be there I would have done it on my own.

Yeah.  Almost same here.  We found a vet that would come to our living room and do the injections with all of the family present.  My kid was about 12 and it was hard, but he needed to be there (IMO) to say goodbye.  I think all vets will let you come into the room to be with your pet.  But we have one former friend who  said she couldn't bear the pain and dropped her little dog off to face it alone.  I could never look at that person the same again, that's why I say former friend.

[Tatetopa]

5 hours ago, preacherman76 said:

Luckily my wife found a traveling Veterinarian who came to my home. We were all able to be right by his side. 

Same here.  My dad had to end my first dog with a .22 when I was about four.   The dog's name was Bullet, after Roy Rogers' dog. I got to help with the grave marker. 

[Grim Reaper 6]

Mr. Smith’s lawsuit demanded that the state use a different method: nitrogen anoxia, also called nitrogen asphyxiation. The 2018 Alabama law approving this method describes it as “nitrogen hypoxia,” but that’s not quite right. Hypoxia means reduction of oxygen levels in the blood. Breathing pure nitrogen induces anoxia, a total depletion of blood oxygen. Nitrogen anoxia is painless. It requires no drugs, poisons or medical procedures, and its effects are well-understood, consistent and reliable. Its first symptom is loss of consciousness.

Nitrogen anoxia is a nearly perfect method of execution. Echoing the Due Process Clause of the Fifth Amendment, it deprives the condemned of life by depriving him of oxygen, the stuff of life. It involves neither physical trauma nor toxic drugs; the executed person’s organs will even be suitable for donation.

Finally, There's a Humane Method of Execution (msn.com)

[Dejarma]

using the words Humane & Execution in the same sentence:

isn't that an oxymoron? 

[+and-then]

Waiting on the court case claiming it's inhuman due to the level of anxiety it induces...

[Grim Reaper 6]

18 minutes ago, Dejarma said:

using the words Humane & Execution in the same sentence:

isn't that an oxymoron? 

It certainly is in my books, when you consider the methods that can be used humane can become part of it also!

[Dejarma]

16 minutes ago, Grim Reaper 6 said:

It certainly is in my books, when you consider the methods that can be used humane can become part of it also!

IN_MY_OPINION it depends on the crime:

aggravated burglary, for example, compared to kidnap, torture rape & murder because they enjoy it!

If someone threw my wife to the ground & robbed her I'd want them punished (if proved guilty) via the law.

If she was kidnapped, tortured raped for days on end & murdered=== don't give me all this humane execution BS-- (if proved guilty) give me half hour in a room with him/her with a hammer, a boxcutter & a fekin soldering iron!!!!!

hmmm, is that bad of me to think this way? Because it's said you can always judge a country by how it treats it's prisoners!?

[Tatetopa]

We had a fatality in my workplace when a maintenance man climbed into a tank with some argon left in the bottom.  He was working on a bearing.  Argon is slightly denser than air and like nitrogen  replaces available oxygen.  Apparently he did not notice,  if he had risen up on his knees he would have been above the argon, but he was apparently crouching over the bearing trying to loosen bolts. 

[Grim Reaper 6]

16 minutes ago, Dejarma said:

IN_MY_OPINION it depends on the crime:

aggravated burglary, for example, compared to kidnap, torture rape & murder because they enjoy it!

If someone threw my wife to the ground & robbed her I'd want them punished (if proved guilty) via the law.

If she was kidnapped, tortured raped for days on end & murdered=== don't give me all this humane execution BS-- (if proved guilty) give me half hour in a room with him/her with a hammer, a boxcutter & a fekin soldering iron!!!!!

hmmm, is that bad of me to think this way? Because it's said you can always judge a country by how it treats it's prisoners!?

No, I don't think it's bad of you to think that way, I would do the same thing or worst. Let me, give you an example, of a situation I was personally faced with during the ground war into Iraq during Operation Desert Storm. After enemy contact, I found an Iraqi soldier laying on the side of the road screaming. His lower extremities from the waist down were blown off, and we didn't have medical personnel with us that could have possible saved his life. So, do you think the humane thing to do was shoot him and put him out of his suffering by ending his life or since he was the enemy just walk away and leave him laying there?

[Grim Reaper 6]

11 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

We had a fatality in my workplace when a maintenance man climbed into a tank with some argon left in the bottom.  He was working on a bearing.  Argon is slightly denser than air and like nitrogen  replaces available oxygen.  Apparently he did not notice,  if he had risen up on his knees he would have been above the argon, but he was apparently crouching over the bearing trying to loosen bolts. 

What happened, did he just go to sleep?