Economic case against Brexit has now totally collapsed.

[+Hammerclaw]

12 minutes ago, pellinore said:

It's not, actually. They are ideally placed for growth, being in the Single Market.

Actually, they're in a bad position demographically. A healthy consumer economy requires a lot of more young people than the elderly, with which they are top heavy, most entering retirement and State dependency. Combined with the generation lost in the War and mass urbanization, their birthrate has dropped precipitately over the ensuing generations. Still, they're better off than the Chinese, already in the process of mass demographic collapse.

Edited September 7, 2023 by Hammerclaw

[Duke Wellington]

6 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

Better position to be in than Germany, struggling with lingering aftereffects of Merkelization's heavy dependence on Russian energy resources.

Yes, even worse than that they gave up on nuclear energy too. EU GDP 2023 Q2 results:

Germany narrowly entered back into recession. Ireland did well which is probably due to the higher food prices, and it being a major food exporter. Part of the weakness Germany has is self imposed weakness due to WW2 guilt, its not prepared to use force to assert its right and interests. Hence, others (its allies) are prepared to shaft it by blowing up the Nord Stream.

Edited September 7, 2023 by Electric Scooter

[Saru]

6 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

Better position to be in than Germany, struggling with lingering aftereffects of Merkelization's heavy dependence on Russian energy resources.

Maybe so, but that's not a reflection on the benefits or otherwise of Brexit.

[+Hammerclaw]

53 minutes ago, Saru said:

Maybe so, but that's not a reflection on the benefits or otherwise of Brexit.

You'd know better than I. Still, all is not well in the House of Brussels. 

[Duke Wellington]

49 minutes ago, Saru said:

Maybe so, but that's not a reflection on the benefits or otherwise of Brexit.

Due to the coronavirus pandemic and the Russian war sanctions, there is no way that anyone can determine from our economic performance if Brexit has had a negative, neutral, or positive impact. Even without those things it would take time. We have inherited EU legislation and a process now needs to occur where we refine and replace its rules to better suit the needs and interests of British organisations.

There we can make a real difference because EU legislation was one set of policies applied to the block, rather than being tailored and decentralised to each member state. We have gained powers back such as the ability of our state to invest in our own organisations. But that takes time too. We will not know if Brexit was the correct move from an economic perspective until about 2040.

CANZUK is a move which will result in us becoming an economic superpower. Not the initial moves to create the block. But once its created it owns 40% of the worlds natural resources used by industry and the UK financial system. We could in principle, apply export taxes to those resources to make them more expensive for countries like China, the EU, and USA. It would result in higher manufacturing costs for those outside CANZUK causing industry to relocate to inside it.

We also need to stop the asset stripping of the UK. Just because an investor offers us billions for an organisation doesn`t mean it should be sold. The UK Government needs to block the taking over of our companies which have decades of growth ahead of them and which will be major contributors to our treasury.

[+Hammerclaw]

1 hour ago, Electric Scooter said:

Yes, even worse than that they gave up on nuclear energy too. EU GDP 2023 Q2 results:

Germany narrowly entered back into recession. Ireland did well which is probably due to the higher food prices, and it being a major food exporter. Part of the weakness Germany has is self imposed weakness due to WW2 guilt, its not prepared to use force to assert its right and interests. Hence, others (its allies) are prepared to shaft it by blowing up the Nord Stream.

Their biggest problem was having followed Merkel's yellow brick road of appeasement and propitiation.

[Saru]

4 minutes ago, Electric Scooter said:

We will not know if Brexit was the correct move from an economic perspective until about 2040.

I agree that it will likely take many years to understand the full impact of Brexit, whatever that might be.

[Duke Wellington]

4 minutes ago, Saru said:

I agree that it will likely take many years to understand the full impact of Brexit, whatever that might be.

Yes, its the long-term overall trend once the unexpected bumps and rises due to other things can be smoothed out.

[L.A.T.1961]

18 hours ago, pellinore said:

Exactly! The fact the economy is performing better than first thought is not a Brexit Benefit, it is just good news. A Brexit Benefit is something which we could not have achieved had we remained in the EU. There has been nothing so far. @L.A.T.1961 @itsnotoutthere @Electric ScooterTake 3 mins to have a look at Stuart Rose conversing with Nick Ferrari (neither could be considered remotely Lefty)https://youtu.be/TbaFBNmcu9g?si=ibvN9Tqt8daozI5r

 

 

This Stuart Rose from, June 2021

Stuart Rose - the former CEO of Marks & Spencer and the current chair of EG Group was announced chair of what became Britain Stronger in Europe in October 2015.

“It was [Project Fear],” Rose says. “And it didn’t work.”

“I remember saying [at a Treasury select committee hearing on 2 March 2016] that if you reduce immigration that wages might go up. Well, it clearly wasn’t the message that I was supposed to be giving but economically it’s a fact.”

“I do remember that, you know, people saying that we’ve really got to hit people on the financials. The argument has got to be about finances and ‘it’s the economy, stupid,’. And I think that was a big mistake". 

On 23 May 2016, a month before the referendum, the Remain campaign unveiled the Treasury’s analysis of what would happen to the UK economy in the two years after a Leave victory. It was grim. There were two scenarios. Both forecast that the economy would shrink, the value of the pound would fall, inflation would rise, unemployment would rise, real wages would be hit, so too would house prices and, as a result, government borrowing would rise.Even the more optimistic “shock” scenario - which envisaged a negotiated bilateral agreement with the EU - calculated that as many as 520,000 people would lose their jobs.

Stuart Rose says he “didn’t feel very comfortable” with the way the Treasury forecasts were presented to voters. “I wouldn’t have done it that way but I had absolutely no control or input about what was being said,” he told Tonight. 

https://www.itv.com/news/2021-06-10/it-was-project-fear-and-it-didnt-work-head-of-remain-campaign-says-economic-dangers-of-brexit-were-exaggerated

 

 

[pellinore]

1 hour ago, L.A.T.1961 said:

This Stuart Rose from, June 2021

Stuart Rose - the former CEO of Marks & Spencer and the current chair of EG Group was announced chair of what became Britain Stronger in Europe in October 2015.

“It was [Project Fear],” Rose says. “And it didn’t work.”

“I remember saying [at a Treasury select committee hearing on 2 March 2016] that if you reduce immigration that wages might go up. Well, it clearly wasn’t the message that I was supposed to be giving but economically it’s a fact.”

“I do remember that, you know, people saying that we’ve really got to hit people on the financials. The argument has got to be about finances and ‘it’s the economy, stupid,’. And I think that was a big mistake". 

On 23 May 2016, a month before the referendum, the Remain campaign unveiled the Treasury’s analysis of what would happen to the UK economy in the two years after a Leave victory. It was grim. There were two scenarios. Both forecast that the economy would shrink, the value of the pound would fall, inflation would rise, unemployment would rise, real wages would be hit, so too would house prices and, as a result, government borrowing would rise.Even the more optimistic “shock” scenario - which envisaged a negotiated bilateral agreement with the EU - calculated that as many as 520,000 people would lose their jobs.

Stuart Rose says he “didn’t feel very comfortable” with the way the Treasury forecasts were presented to voters. “I wouldn’t have done it that way but I had absolutely no control or input about what was being said,” he told Tonight. 

https://www.itv.com/news/2021-06-10/it-was-project-fear-and-it-didnt-work-head-of-remain-campaign-says-economic-dangers-of-brexit-were-exaggerated

 

 

Yes, the Remain campaign was a total catastrophe.

[Duke Wellington]

1 hour ago, pellinore said:

Yes, the Remain campaign was a total catastrophe.

With the majority of MPs (the leadership) singing to song of the EU I think the remain vote did well.

In the years leading up to Cameron it was about 65% of the UK who wanted out of the EU.

[pellinore]

28 minutes ago, Electric Scooter said:

With the majority of MPs (the leadership) singing to song of the EU I think the remain vote did well.

In the years leading up to Cameron it was about 65% of the UK who wanted out of the EU.

The remain vote obviously didn't do well.  The Leave vote did worse though- it took us out of the EU against the wishes of the majority of the population.

[Duke Wellington]

26 minutes ago, pellinore said:

The remain vote obviously didn't do well.  The Leave vote did worse though- it took us out of the EU against the wishes of the majority of the population.

The majority didnt vote leave?

[bmk1245]

47 minutes ago, pellinore said:

The remain vote obviously didn't do well.  The Leave vote did worse though- it took us out of the EU against the wishes of the majority of the population.

Well, majority spoke up, isn't it? Should UK need one more referendum? If that would fail, another one? Until you get favorable result?

Brexit is not the problem, implementation is. I'd suspect deliberate sabotage, or sheer incopentence in running things.

[pellinore]

1 hour ago, bmk1245 said:

Well, majority spoke up, isn't it? Should UK need one more referendum? If that would fail, another one? Until you get favorable result?

Brexit is not the problem, implementation is. I'd suspect deliberate sabotage, or sheer incopentence in running things.

Brexit is the problem, not the implementation: since the purpose of Brexit is isolation from the rest of Europe the 'better' it is done, the more damage it causes. That's why the UK hasn't implemented import controls, why we have abandoned our own UKCA safety mark and will continue to use the CE mark, and why we are rejoining Horizon. 'Perfect' Brexit, which is what the hard-line Brexiters keep pushing for, would lead to almost complete breakdown of the UK economy. Sunak realises that and is now backtracking a lot. He and other Brexit realists realise re-joining is inevitable, but it will probably take a decade. By then most Brexiters will have passed away or will be in care homes (they were mainly the over 65's in 2016, while people too young to vote then will be in their 30s and they are more forward-looking and will want to take Britain into the future) so while we have 65% who currently favour rejoining, it may well be 90% in another decade.

Brexit was only done to try to heal rifts in the Tory Party, no one thought we would be crazy enough to vote for it or enact if we did (it was an advisory referendum not a legally binding one). Only a small proportion of the population voted for it (just over half of the 35 million who actually voted, out of a total population of 65 million). 

Edited September 7, 2023 by pellinore

[pellinore]

1 hour ago, Electric Scooter said:

The majority didnt vote leave?

No, see my post above.

[bmk1245]

6 minutes ago, pellinore said:

Brexit is the problem, not the implementation: since the purpose of Brexit is isolation from the rest of Europe the 'better' it is done, the more damage it causes.[....]

OK, was it? Or going in the path of Switzerland? Is Switzerland isolated from the rest of Europe?

You get my gist?

[bmk1245]

13 minutes ago, pellinore said:

No, see my post above.

Sheeple thought Brexit won't happen, hence were too lazy to vote, alas...