Shaken Atheism: A Look at the Fine-Tuned Universe

[ReadTheGreatControversyEGW]

"It is impossible that the universe has escaped being manipulated by a superintellect. The facts indicate that the numbers of combinations necessary for life to have happened through random choice is a conclusion beyond belief."  

https://www.religion-online.org/article/shaken-atheism-a-look-at-the-fine-tuned-universe/

*Multiple finely-tuned simultaneous constants make life on earth possible.   

Blindfold several individuals and give each a Rubik's Cube. What are the chances of each person coming to the same conclusion at the exact same time? 

The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. - Psalm 19:1

[+joc]

16 minutes ago, ReadTheGreatControversyEGW said:

Blindfold several individuals and give each a Rubik's Cube. What are the chances of each person coming to the same conclusion at the exact same time?

And the Earth was void and without form...just like your logic. And darkness was upon the face of the deep...just like your understanding of the universe.

[Occupational Hubris]

lol

Congrats. You just described the anthropic principle. The universe can only look this way to us cause these are the only conditions we know which are able to support intelligent life. 

[Shadowsfall]

Is the word universe in the bible….

[cormac mac airt]

This is the song that doesn't end
Yes, it goes on and on, my friend!
Some people started singing it not knowing what it was,
And they′ll continue singing it forever just because…..

cormac

[Occupational Hubris]

8 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

This is the song that doesn't end
Yes, it goes on and on, my friend!
Some people started singing it not knowing what it was,
And they′ll continue singing it forever just because…..

cormac

[+joc]

55 minutes ago, ReadTheGreatControversyEGW said:

"It is impossible that the universe has escaped being manipulated by a superintellect. The facts indicate that the numbers of combinations necessary for life to have happened through random choice is a conclusion beyond belief."  

https://www.religion-online.org/article/shaken-atheism-a-look-at-the-fine-tuned-universe/

Quote

"Somebody had to tune [the universe] very precisely," concludes Marek Demianski, a Polish cosmologist (quoted in Science News, September 3, 1983, p. 152). Stephen Hawking, the Einstein of our time, agrees: "The odds against a universe like ours coming out of something like the Big Bang are enormous. I think there are clearly religious implications" (John Boslough, Stephen Hawking's Universe, p. 121). 

The quote of Hawking was taken out of context.  The person who took it out of context, Ian Barbour, knew what he was doing.  This just shows the disingenuousness of the 'faithful'.  It's a lie.  That's not what Hawking said. 

Link

"It may soon become evident that science will never be able to take us to the exact moment of creation—only up to that point where philosophy, metaphysics, and theology begin." Stephen Hawking has made a tentative foray into this uncertain area. “The odds against a universe like ours emerging out of something like the Big Bang are enormous,” [Hawking] told me. “I think there are clearly religious implications whenever you start to discuss the origins of the universe. There must be religious overtones. But I think most scientists prefer to shy away from the religious side of it.”

JOHN BOSLOUGH, STEPHEN HAWKING’S UNIVERSE, P. 109

 

Edited September 16 by joc

[Dejarma]

1 hour ago, ReadTheGreatControversyEGW said:

It is impossible that the universe has escaped being manipulated by a superintellect.

to you it is

[pellinore]

The complexity of the Universe and the diversity of life on Earth leads some to believe that it all cannot have come about by chance.

[Crazy Horse]

5 hours ago, Shadowsfall said:

Is the word universe in the bible….

Is the word, fandabidozzi in the Bible?

I like this game.. 

[Crazy Horse]

38 minutes ago, pellinore said:

The complexity of the Universe and the diversity of life on Earth leads some to believe that it all cannot have come about by chance.

Which in turn may lead one onto the path of self discovery, when beliefs and knowing, conjoin.

[Crazy Horse]

12 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

Which in turn may lead one onto the path of self discovery, when beliefs and knowing, conjoin.

Actually, I feel that having blind faith is exceptionally powerful, the rewards of which are an inner knowing, an inner peace, and an actual relationship with THAT we call GOD.

[Saru]

Thread cleaned

Let's try to keep this discussion civil and constructive please - no personal attacks, no drama and also no preaching.

Thank you.

[ReadTheGreatControversyEGW]

1 hour ago, Saru said:

Thread cleaned

Let's try to keep this discussion civil and constructive please - no personal attacks, no drama and also no preaching.

Thank you.

Saru, yes thank you I appreciate your efforts. You can do what I cannot. I love when things are positive and respectful as well. To my question - what defines 'preaching' I'm uncertain about this. Because on this forum there are several anti-God/Bible posts and views. My views are the opposite. How does preaching differ from having a view in favor of God/the Bible? Honestly I would like to discuss this. This forum is on Spirituality, Religion and Beliefs - mine are from the Bible. That's what I post about. I am not preaching to no one. I couldn't care less about preaching to people here. Believe what you want to believe! I say this with sincerity: I do not care, believe what you want to believe. I respect you and your views and obviously don't agree with all of them. I've been a bit confused and wondering about this. If you say something to my post I'll respond about it with my views (Bible/God related), just like you respond with your views (anti-God/Bible related). Thank you for your input Saru.   

[Piney]

9 hours ago, pellinore said:

The complexity of the Universe and the diversity of life on Earth leads some to believe that it all cannot have come about by chance.

Physics has it's own "rule book" as does biology but it doesn't mean it's guided. 

[Piney]

15 hours ago, ReadTheGreatControversyEGW said:

"It is impossible that the universe has escaped being manipulated by a superintellect. The facts indicate that the numbers of combinations necessary for life to have happened through random choice is a conclusion beyond belief."  

https://www.religion-online.org/article/shaken-atheism-a-look-at-the-fine-tuned-universe/

*Multiple finely-tuned simultaneous constants make life on earth possible.   

Blindfold several individuals and give each a Rubik's Cube. What are the chances of each person coming to the same conclusion at the exact same time? 

The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. - Psalm 19:1

Hoyle doesn't understand that different types of fusion and nova from different types of stars create only certain elements. He's a astronomer. Not a chemist.

[Guyver]

15 hours ago, ReadTheGreatControversyEGW said:

"It is impossible that the universe has escaped being manipulated by a superintellect. The facts indicate that the numbers of combinations necessary for life to have happened through random choice is a conclusion beyond belief."  

Choices aren’t random.  I think you meant random chance?

[Guyver]

15 hours ago, Shadowsfall said:

Is the word universe in the bible….

No…it’s called the heavens in the Bible and Earth is not capitalized….not to nitpick….just saying.

[eight bits]

The harmonious complexity of the Universe and the diversity of life on earth are strong evidence for polytheism.

[XenoFish]

Just another form of meaning making.

[Piney]

7 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Just another form of meaning making.

Spend some time trying to reconstruct paleo environments. You'll see how hit and miss evolution is. 

12 minutes ago, eight bits said:

The harmonious complexity of the Universe and the diversity of life on earth are strong evidence for polytheism.

And they are always fighting over how things are done. 

[Essan]

16 hours ago, ReadTheGreatControversyEGW said:

 

Blindfold several individuals and give each a Rubik's Cube. What are the chances of each person coming to the same conclusion at the exact same time? 

When you look into the Total Perspective Vortex and realise that there are more planets in the known universe than grains of sand in the Sahara Desert....   You realise that this probably happens very often. 

 

[Antigonos]

“Shaken Atheism”. 
 

I love these BS melodramatic thread titles.

[+Hammerclaw]

31 minutes ago, Antigonos said:

“Shaken Atheism”. 
 

I love these BS melodramatic thread titles.

"Shaken, not stirred." Product of another extremist nutcase, flashing across UM's sky to oblivion.

[ReadTheGreatControversyEGW]

Hey beautiful people... so the article says, 

Quote

"When we consider the first seconds of the big bang that created the universe, writes Bernard Lovell, an astronomer, "it is an astonishing reflection that at this critical early moment in the history of the universe, all of the hydrogen would have turned into helium if the force of attraction between protons—that is, the nuclei of the hydrogen atoms—had been only a few percent stronger. . . . No galaxies, no stars, no life would have emerged. It would have been a universe forever unknowable by living creatures. A remarkable and intimate relationship between man, the fundamental constants of nature and the initial moments of space and time seems to be an inescapable condition of our existence" ("Whence?," New York Times Magazine, November 16, 1975)."

Someone in the comments said something about different stars having different elements. 

An article on NASA's website states the following - 

"Stars are giant balls of hot gas – mostly hydrogen, with some helium and small amounts of other elements."  

https://universe.nasa.gov/stars/basics/

How can a huge explosion create something so specific? It would take the power of a superintellect to control and bring about the right conditions. 

Edited September 16 by ReadTheGreatControversyEGW