Shaken Atheism: A Look at the Fine-Tuned Universe

[+joc]

1 hour ago, ReadTheGreatControversyEGW said:

Can you prove that?

Can you prove that also? Provide the scientific evidence. No one can prove that an asteroid 65 millions years ago destroyed the dinosaurs. 

 The  K/T boundary

[Kenemet]

1 hour ago, cormac mac airt said:

One could believe in Zeus, Thor, Amon-Re, Manannán mac Lir or any number of other deities and be just as valid in their beliefs as you are. Yours is nothing special in the grand scheme of things. 
 

cormac

Personally, I suggest you go with Amun-Re, "Lord of the Silent."  He doesn't condemn anyone to eternal torment for not believing in him.  He does, however, do it for those who violate Ma'at... unlike a certain deity who seem to be able to forgive almost anything in their believers while sending others to eternal punishment for picking up sticks on a holy day.

[eight bits]

5 hours ago, ReadTheGreatControversyEGW said:

Science did exist in those days (see links below).   

You are straw manning. The counterclaims are that science in the modern sense of the word was unknown to the ancients, that the English word science meant something different in 1611 than it does today, and finally that the whole sentence itself whether in Greek or in English clearly refers to religious preaching rather than natural science. You cut away the part of the sentence that makes that clear.

If you think 1 Timothy is the inspired word of God, then treat it accordingly, and don't rewrite God's sentence by chopping off the part that explains what his words mean.

Quote

Paul's admonishment to Timothy is very relevant today. It doesn't matter what the source may be, that which leads men and women away from God is the very thing he is speaking of. There are people who were once believers.. But who, as you brought out in the next verse, "professing" confidence in science, "have erred concerning the faith."

As has been explained to you, Paul didn't write 1 Timothy. Regardless, the impostor pretending to be Paul was not writing about people who were professing confidence in science, but rather were professing their religious faith, which apparently differed from pseudo-Paul's religious faith. 

[Piney]

7 hours ago, ReadTheGreatControversyEGW said:

Science did exist in those days (see links below). Paul's admonishment to Timothy is very relevant today. It doesn't matter what the source may be, that which leads men and women away from God is the very thing he is speaking of. There are people who were once believers.. But who, as you brought out in the next verse, "professing" confidence in science, "have erred concerning the faith." Many professing to have "knowledge" contrary to the knowledge of God, have left the faith and gone on to dwell in strange places.   

"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;” 1Tim4:1.

https://www.worldhistory.org/Roman_Science/

https://www.britannica.com/science/history-of-science/Science-in-Rome-and-Christianity

Timothy taken out of context again.....but the actual full verse talks about not doing what the SDAs do with food and superstition. 

[Piney]

7 hours ago, ReadTheGreatControversyEGW said:

Can you prove that?

Can you prove that also? Provide the scientific evidence. No one can prove that an asteroid 65 millions years ago destroyed the dinosaurs. 

Really? There is geological evidence across the Arkansas Plateau and as far as the Sand Hills of Nebraska. Then there's the geomagnetic imaging and cores of the crater itself. 

7 hours ago, ReadTheGreatControversyEGW said:

My view of the world fits the world perfectly. It just doesn't fit with atheists. That's all.  

It doesn't fit with any real Christians either.

[Rlyeh]

8 hours ago, ReadTheGreatControversyEGW said:

That's what they say. But it is not true. If it contradicts the view of a Creator, we have met the lie. All I see over and over from you/others and things I've read elsewhere are godless explanations attached to phenomenons of the natural world. The atheistic narrative is one way to look at those findings. But it is not the only way. And the rest is a bunch of false science like abiogensis and the big bang theory. 

Your bias of superstition.

[Rlyeh]

8 hours ago, ReadTheGreatControversyEGW said:

My view of the world fits the world perfectly. It just doesn't fit with atheists. That's all.  

The little world in your head.

[+Sherapy]

11 hours ago, ReadTheGreatControversyEGW said:

Science did exist in those days (see links below). Paul's admonishment to Timothy is very relevant today. It doesn't matter what the source may be, that which leads men and women away from God is the very thing he is speaking of. There are people who were once believers.. But who, as you brought out in the next verse, "professing" confidence in science, "have erred concerning the faith." Many professing to have "knowledge" contrary to the knowledge of God, have left the faith and gone on to dwell in strange places.   

"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;” 1Tim4:1.

https://www.worldhistory.org/Roman_Science/

https://www.britannica.com/science/history-of-science/Science-in-Rome-and-Christianity

Read, stop preaching. Many people who are religious have found a way to incorporate science with their faith. 
 

 

[+Hammerclaw]

11 hours ago, ReadTheGreatControversyEGW said:

Can you prove that?

Can you prove that also? Provide the scientific evidence. No one can prove that an asteroid 65 millions years ago destroyed the dinosaurs. 

The K-T boundary layer, between the Cretaceous and Tertiary deposits found worldwide, contain high levels of Iridium, a rare element on earth, that could have only been deposited by a massive meteoric impact. Below the layer, we find dinosaurs, above the layer, we find none. The point of impact, the Chicxulub Crater, has been located and recently core-drilled, providing the precise sequence of events the day of impact, 66 million years ago. 

 

Edited September 20, 2023 by Hammerclaw

[lightly]

14 hours ago, XenoFish said:

Sure you could run with that idea, but you have to consider how many animals, plants, and microbe's can kill us. How lethal this planet really is. It wasn't long ago we were all in lockdown because of a cough. Much of the foods we eat now have been engineered through selective breeding. It doesn't take much to turn fresh clean water into sewage. Every benefit you enjoy in life is because someone decided to do something better. To figure out how to live better. We went from hiding in caves, to huts, and now mountains of steel and glass. 

Good point X.     I remember being very impressed when I first learned about our development of Maize/Corn…from a grass seed to it’s current forms..by people picking ,and planting, the largest ‘grains’.    

   

History of Corn

Corn as we know it today would not exist if it weren't for the humans that cultivated and developed it. It is a human invention, a plant that does not exist naturally in the wild. It can only survive if planted and protected by humans.

Scientists believe people living in central Mexico developed corn at least 7000 years ago. It was started from a wild grass called teosinte. Teosinte looked very different from our corn today. The kernels were small and were not placed close together like kernels on the husked ear of modern corn. Also known as maize Indians throughout North and South America, eventually depended upon this crop for much of their food.

__________________________________________________

From Mexico maize spread north into the Southwestern United States and south down the coast to Peru. About 1000 years ago, as Indian people migrated north to the eastern woodlands of present day North America, they brought corn with them. 

When Europeans like Columbus made contact with people living in North and South America, corn was a major part of the diet of most native people. When Columbus "discovered" America, he also discovered corn. But up to this time, people living in Europe did not know about corn. 

The first Thanksgiving was held in 1621. While sweet potatoes, cranberry sauce and pumpkin pie were not on the menu, Indian corn certainly would have been.

 

Edited September 20, 2023 by lightly

[+Hammerclaw]

11 hours ago, ReadTheGreatControversyEGW said:

That's what they say. But it is not true. If it contradicts the view of a Creator, we have met the lie. All I see over and over from you/others and things I've read elsewhere are godless explanations attached to phenomenons of the natural world. The atheistic narrative is one way to look at those findings. But it is not the only way. And the rest is a bunch of false science like abiogensis and the big bang theory. 

Wie lange willst du diese Tauschung noch fortsetzen?

[lightly]

I keep thinking about balance and imbalance.   for some odd unreasonable reason, I was starting to think that balance might be an adequate explanation for everything … dumb.   Balance can’t exist without imbalance?  ..the orbit of the earth around the sun is a balancing/imbalancing act ..eventually imbalance will win out.    !       ..just thinkin 

[lightly]

     This is the last line of the   History of Corn I posted above:   

The first Thanksgiving was held in 1621. While sweet potatoes, cranberry sauce and pumpkin pie were not on the menu, Indian corn certainly would have been.        But according to this  v  they could have been, because sweet potatoes originated in S. America, and by the time of Columbus were common in N. America?      & they are actually not potatoes (tubers) ,but roots.

http://www.sweetpotato.org/yamster-facts#:~:text=When the explorer Christopher Columbus,Europe to grow their own.

      … “When the explorer Christopher Columbus landed on our shores in 1492, the Native Americans were growing sweet potatoes. That’s almost 300 years before the United States even became a country! Columbus and his men loved the tasty yams so much that they brought them back to Europe to grow their own. Long after Columbus left, sweet potatoes kept getting more popular. The Pilgrims and Indians ate them in the first Thanksgiving feast. There are stories of sweet potatoes being grown in the South as early as the year 1648. In fact, did you know that before George Washington became our first president, he was a sweet potato farmer? It’s true! Today, people all over the world love the delicious, nutritious sweet potato.”

Edited September 20, 2023 by lightly

[Piney]

20 minutes ago, lightly said:

     This is the last line of the   History of Corn I posted above:   

The first Thanksgiving was held in 1621. While sweet potatoes, cranberry sauce and pumpkin pie were not on the menu, Indian corn certainly would have been.        But according to this  v  they could have been, because sweet potatoes originated in S. America, and by the time of Columbus were common in N. America?      & they are actually not potatoes (tubers) ,but roots.

http://www.sweetpotato.org/yamster-facts#:~:text=When the explorer Christopher Columbus,Europe to grow their own.

      … “When the explorer Christopher Columbus landed on our shores in 1492, the Native Americans were growing sweet potatoes. That’s almost 300 years before the United States even became a country! Columbus and his men loved the tasty yams so much that they brought them back to Europe to grow their own. Long after Columbus left, sweet potatoes kept getting more popular. The Pilgrims and Indians ate them in the first Thanksgiving feast. There are stories of sweet potatoes being grown in the South as early as the year 1648. In fact, did you know that before George Washington became our first president, he was a sweet potato farmer? It’s true! Today, people all over the world love the delicious, nutritious sweet potato.”

More like the first case of welfare for undocumented immigrants. 

Sweet potatoes might have been introduced by Polynesians into South America. 

[+Hammerclaw]

4 hours ago, lightly said:

Good point X.     I remember being very impressed when I first learned about our development of Maize/Corn…from a grass seed to it’s current forms..by people picking ,and planting, the largest ‘grains’.    

   

History of Corn

Corn as we know it today would not exist if it weren't for the humans that cultivated and developed it. It is a human invention, a plant that does not exist naturally in the wild. It can only survive if planted and protected by humans.

Scientists believe people living in central Mexico developed corn at least 7000 years ago. It was started from a wild grass called teosinte. Teosinte looked very different from our corn today. The kernels were small and were not placed close together like kernels on the husked ear of modern corn. Also known as maize Indians throughout North and South America, eventually depended upon this crop for much of their food.

__________________________________________________

From Mexico maize spread north into the Southwestern United States and south down the coast to Peru. About 1000 years ago, as Indian people migrated north to the eastern woodlands of present day North America, they brought corn with them. 

When Europeans like Columbus made contact with people living in North and South America, corn was a major part of the diet of most native people. When Columbus "discovered" America, he also discovered corn. But up to this time, people living in Europe did not know about corn. 

The first Thanksgiving was held in 1621. While sweet potatoes, cranberry sauce and pumpkin pie were not on the menu, Indian corn certainly would have been.

 

Maize has become so domesticated, it can not survive and reproduce without human assistance. Corn husks have no mechanism to spread their seeds without man to do it for them.

Edited September 20, 2023 by Hammerclaw

[Piney]

4 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

Maize has become so domesticated, it can not survive and reproduce without human assistance. Corn husks has no mechanism to spread their seeds without man to do it for them.

That happened with avocados but for a different reason. It was because the giant sloth which was the only other creature who ate them went extinct and could no longer broadcast the seeds. Now it's only humans. 

Bananas too, which are also so genetically homogenized if they get hit with a disease they are done.

[+Hammerclaw]

6 minutes ago, Piney said:

That happened with avocados but for a different reason. It was because the giant sloth which was the only other creature who ate them went extinct and could no longer broadcast the seeds. Now it's only humans. 

Bananas too, which are also so genetically homogenized if they get hit with a disease they are done.

Happened last century and a new strain was cultivated, completely replacing the old crop.

Other plants in North America depended on the sloth in part or whole for the same reason, including the Joshua Tree.

Edited September 20, 2023 by Hammerclaw

[ReadTheGreatControversyEGW]

19 hours ago, XenoFish said:

What is more divine that knowledge? Knowledge of the universe, knowledge of life, knowledge of the body, knowledge of the mind.

Someone finally admitted it. The religion of science - this is your god! This whole science worship thing reminds me of a verse in the Bible: 

“Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.” Rom 1:25

 

[cormac mac airt]

2 minutes ago, ReadTheGreatControversyEGW said:

Someone finally admitted it. The religion of science - this is your god! This whole science worship thing reminds me of a verse in the Bible: 

“Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.” Rom 1:25

It’s not a religion but you make it readily apparent that when it comes to science and religion then science scares the crap out of you since it doesn’t remotely validate your belief. Being afraid of the truth must be incredibly debilitating, I feel for you. 
 

cormac

[ReadTheGreatControversyEGW]

18 hours ago, XenoFish said:

Sure you could run with that idea, but you have to consider how many animals, plants, and microbe's can kill us. How lethal this planet really is. It wasn't long ago we were all in lockdown because of a cough. Much of the foods we eat now have been engineered through selective breeding. It doesn't take much to turn fresh clean water into sewage.

These issues are the results of human error. And even so, they do not negate the relevance of the fact that this world is designed for human life to not only exist, but thrive. 

Quote

Every benefit you enjoy in life is because someone decided to do something better. To figure out how to live better. We went from hiding in caves, to huts, and now mountains of steel and glass.

We were given intelligence to build and order our lives effectively. Who told you we were hiding in caves and huts and all that? Humanity did not come from the place that science said we came from, mindless cave men, ape men, etc. 

[Antigonos]

14 minutes ago, ReadTheGreatControversyEGW said:

Someone finally admitted it. The religion of science - this is your god! This whole science worship thing reminds me of a verse in the Bible: 

“Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.” Rom 1:25

 

Deliberately misrepresenting and deliberately misunderstanding what people say won’t help you and doesn’t change reality, no matter how many irrelevant bible quotes you post.

[ReadTheGreatControversyEGW]

18 hours ago, Sherapy said:

For ex: when scientists form a hypothesis, they are proposing a “potential” explanation for a specific observation or phenomenon.

And it's never one with God included in the mix. No one can disagree with me when I say that, "Scientific theory," if anything at all, is full of atheistic narratives. The truth that God created the world is never included in scientific theory, but instead, something utterly impossible to believe  - the world created itself. I'm sorry but, for me, it takes more faith to believe in science than it takes to believe in God. I'm not the only one who thinks this way either. 

[cormac mac airt]

2 minutes ago, ReadTheGreatControversyEGW said:

And it's never one with God included in the mix. No one can disagree with me when I say that, "Scientific theory," if anything at all, is full of atheistic narratives. The truth that God created the world is never included in scientific theory, but instead, something utterly impossible to believe  - the world created itself. I'm sorry but, for me, it takes more faith to believe in science than it takes to believe in God. I'm not the only one who thinks this way either. 

Which God, because according to the early Hebrews it WASN’T Yahweh? That makes the current belief a later fabrication. It also makes you a promoter of said fabrication. Imagine that! 
 

cormac

[Rlyeh]

8 minutes ago, ReadTheGreatControversyEGW said:

And it's never one with God included in the mix.

That wouldn't be a scientific hypothesis then.

 

8 minutes ago, ReadTheGreatControversyEGW said:

The truth that God created the world is never included in scientific theory, but instead, something utterly impossible to believe  - the world created itself. I'm sorry but, for me, it takes more faith to believe in science than it takes to believe in God. I'm not the only one who thinks this way either. 

The truth is the scientific method doesn't entertain your mythology.

[Piney]

30 minutes ago, ReadTheGreatControversyEGW said:

Someone finally admitted it. The religion of science - this is your god! This whole science worship thing reminds me of a verse in the Bible: 

“Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.” Rom 1:25

 

Misapplied verse again? It's about worshipping graven images.

Romans 1:24-25

"This is why God abandoned them in their inmost cravings and filthy practices of dishonoring their own bodies- because they exchanged God's truth for a lie and have worshipped and served the creature instead of the Creator, who is blessed forever amen."

And no...Science is not a "religion".