Shaken Atheism: A Look at the Fine-Tuned Universe

[+Hammerclaw]

1 minute ago, Crazy Horse said:

Not preaching, just relaying some personal experiences, which as far as I know, isn't against forum rules.

Just a little heads-up.

It is if you preach it, like you just did.

[Crazy Horse]

1 minute ago, Hammerclaw said:

It is if you preach it, like you just did.

If that's how you take it, then that's on you, I do cant help the way you see things.

[+Sherapy]

20 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

Not preaching, just relaying some personal experiences, which as far as I know, isn't against forum rules.

Just a little heads-up.

 

——“asking the ubiquitous, uniquely human question "why" about everything.

And yet it is only when one stops this incessant questioning, (and thinking) that one may feel, and know, the truth.

"Be still, and know that I am GOD.."

 

The statement is an example of preaching because it is urging hammer to stop questioning and thinking, and instead rely on faith and belief in your higher power. This ex of preaching is an attempt to convince or correct him to adopt a particular/“your” belief system or way of thinking. In this case, the exhortation to be still and know that the speaker is God is presenting your religious perspective and urging hammer to trust in your understanding of divine authority as opposed to his own critical application. 

Please refine your understanding moving forward, so you do not preach anymore, CH.

Edited September 17 by Sherapy

[cormac mac airt]

6 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

Not preaching, just relaying some personal experiences, which as far as I know, isn't against forum rules.

Just a little heads-up.

If you’re quoting the Bible to make an otherwise nonexistent point then it’s NOT “relaying some personal experiences” as you claim. It’s preaching. 
 

cormac

[+Hammerclaw]

8 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

If that's how you take it, then that's on you, I do cant help the way you see things.

You can't help how the mods see the things either, so tread carefully.

[Crazy Horse]

5 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

If you’re quoting the Bible to make an otherwise nonexistent point then it’s NOT “relaying some personal experiences” as you claim. It’s preaching. 
 

cormac

If you had ever bothered to be still, then you too would know Spirit, and therefore is would not only make sense, but be an experiential experience too.

[Crazy Horse]

3 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

You can't help how the mods see the things either, so tread carefully.

Who are you to try and stop ones freedom of speech?

Its you who needs to tread very, very carefully.

[cormac mac airt]

1 minute ago, Crazy Horse said:

If you had ever bothered to be still, then you too would know Spirit, and therefore is would not only make sense, but be an experiential experience too.

Been there, done that, moved on to reality. 
 

cormac

[cormac mac airt]

1 minute ago, Crazy Horse said:

Who are you to try and stop ones freedom of speech?

Its you who needs to tread very, very carefully.

Here at UM you only have the freedom that Saru grants you, nothing else. That’s why there are rules. 
 

cormac

[+Hammerclaw]

Just now, Crazy Horse said:

Who are you to try and stop ones freedom of speech?

Its you who needs to tread very, very carefully.

Doesn't apply here. You have post within forum rules. Otherwise, you'll get another vacation. 

[XenoFish]

44 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

Good points, X, 

When faced with the vastness and complexity of the cosmos, humans may find it overwhelming or incomprehensible. So, to alleviate or quell this cognitive dissonance, we ( in a general sense) tend to project our own need for order onto the universe. We look for patterns, symmetries, and regularities that make it easier for us to navigate and understand the cosmos. 

Additionally, humans have an inherent desire for control and predictability. We feel more at ease when we believe we have a certain level of influence over our environment. By perceiving the universe as having a deliberate order or intelligence, we gain a sense of reassurance that things are not chaotic. It provides one with a semblance of control over our surroundings, even if that control is simply a perceived one.

I think a hard thing to wrap one’s head around is that this inclination to anthropomorphize the cosmos or deities  does not necessarily mean the ideas reflect actual characteristics of the universe/deities itself. It is a projection of ones own human desires and cognitive biases. The universe can operate based on physical laws without any intention, purpose, or intelligence behind it. Understanding this distinction is tough for some. Being okay with “I don’t know” is not easy for some. 

 

I think in many ways this embodiment that the universe is given, is also a way to attribute some personal significance to individual existence. Even though the universe is indifferent and we are cosmically insignificant. 

That's why the gods are human. So people can feel as if they relate to them. I suppose faith in deities is its own ego trap. 

[Tatetopa]

15 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

Sadly some just don’t care, pretending that their interpretation of reality is the one and only correct one. It never was nor will be. 
 

cormac

This has been an excellent thread thanks to all of the thoughtful contributors and the years of critical thinking behind their answers.  Most enjoyable to accompany a sunny Sunday morning and a good cup of coffee. 

I wonder if there has ever been a study to ascertain whether all human minds are capable of critical thinking.  Maybe it is a lack of capability, the neural connections are just not there for some.  It is not necessary for survival up to a point.  Humans that have not evolved the ability for critical thinking are not at a disadvantage  during the early stages of social complexity, and society can support some number of them if they are useful in other areas.  At some point though, as society shifts toward more complexity and technology becomes less intuitive than slamming two rocks together in hopes of getting an edge, a better understanding of the universe and physical laws becomes a benefit.  Those who can't keep up with expanding knowledge are dragged along through an increasingly difficult and fearful maze.  Maybe there is comfort in clinging to a pattern even where there is none.

[Crazy Horse]

Just now, cormac mac airt said:

Here at UM you only have the freedom that Saru grants you, nothing else. That’s why there are rules. 
 

cormac

And yet I still am not preaching.

Relaying personal experiences is not against the rules.

[Crazy Horse]

1 minute ago, Hammerclaw said:

Doesn't apply here. You have post within forum rules. Otherwise, you'll get another vacation. 

Spoken like a true Bolshevik.

[+Sherapy]

6 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

If you had ever bothered to be still, then you too would know Spirit, and therefore is would not only make sense, but be an experiential experience too.

This is CH troll preaching.
 

 

[cormac mac airt]

1 minute ago, Tatetopa said:

This has been an excellent thread thanks to all of the thoughtful contributors and the years of critical thinking behind their answers.  Most enjoyable to accompany a sunny Sunday morning and a good cup of coffee. 

I wonder if there has ever been a study to ascertain whether all human minds are capable of critical thinking.  Maybe it is a lack of capability, the neural connections are just not there for some.  It is not necessary for survival up to a point.  Humans that have not evolved the ability for critical thinking are not at a disadvantage  during the early stages of social complexity, and society can support some number of them if they are useful in other areas.  At some point though, as society shifts toward more complexity and technology becomes less intuitive than slamming two rocks together in hopes of getting an edge, a better understanding of the universe and physical laws becomes a benefit.  Those who can't keep up with expanding knowledge are dragged along through an increasingly difficult and fearful maze.  Maybe there is comfort in clinging to a pattern even where there is none.

I believe most are capable but many are just too damn lazy to develop anything deep or meaningful in regards to their thinking ability. 
 

cormac

[+Sherapy]

6 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

Who are you to try and stop ones freedom of speech?

It’s you who needs to tread very, very carefully.

 

3 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

And yet I still am not preaching.

Relaying personal experiences is not against the rules.

Yet, you didn’t relay a personal experience. 

[Crazy Horse]

2 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

This is CH troll preaching.
 

 

Before throwing accusations around, perhaps you would care to define that term?

[XenoFish]

35 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

Sadly some just don’t care, pretending that their interpretation of reality is the one and only correct one. It never was nor will be. 
 

cormac

We all live within our individual subjective reality tunnels. None of us have an unfiltered look and not the whole picture. These perspective shouldn't be taken serious or as absolutes. 

 

[+Hammerclaw]

2 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

Spoken like a true Bolshevik.

"Be still and know you're dumber 'n' dog sh!t."

[+joc]

5 hours ago, razman said:

Like me and Psych were talking about in that other thread , we see by what we are that the universe evolves intelligence at some point , so somewhere if there was a place where it was billions or even hundreds of billions of years ahead of us , it could be quite advanced from us. We can only see so much of the universe , or say , so far , so it's hard to say what could be beyond it. Or even what exactly is all in what we can see.

 I'm guessing you meant 'millions' since the entire shabooshka is only 13.8 billion years old...but I digress...

 

Neil  Degrasse Tyson said pretty much the same thing:

Edited September 17 by joc

[+Sherapy]

4 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

This has been an excellent thread thanks to all of the thoughtful contributors and the years of critical thinking behind their answers.  Most enjoyable to accompany a sunny Sunday morning and a good cup of coffee. 

I wonder if there has ever been a study to ascertain whether all human minds are capable of critical thinking.  Maybe it is a lack of capability, the neural connections are just not there for some.  It is not necessary for survival up to a point.  Humans that have not evolved the ability for critical thinking are not at a disadvantage  during the early stages of social complexity, and society can support some number of them if they are useful in other areas.  At some point though, as society shifts toward more complexity and technology becomes less intuitive than slamming two rocks together in hopes of getting an edge, a better understanding of the universe and physical laws becomes a benefit.  Those who can't keep up with expanding knowledge are dragged along through an increasingly difficult and fearful maze.  Maybe there is comfort in clinging to a pattern even where there is none.

Excellent question, as you said, there is a huge need for it now due to technological advancement. The educational system across the board has been teaching this as early as kindergarten as of 2000s or even earlier. I think it can be learned but it is a huge learning curve few take on. 

[Crazy Horse]

9 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

"Be still and know you're dumber 'n' dog sh!t."

Say what you like about me, but at least I can reframe from throwing disgusting insults around.

I am sure there are forum rules about that, too.. 

Tread carefully Little Ham.

Edited September 17 by Crazy Horse

[+Hammerclaw]

1 minute ago, joc said:

Neil  Degrasse Tyson said pretty much the same thing:

 

I don't like him, but I did like Pluto.

[+Hammerclaw]

3 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

Say what you like about me, but at least I can reframe from throwing disgusting insults around.

Only for disgusting people who called me the disgusting slur, Bolshevik. 

Edited September 17 by Hammerclaw