Shaken Atheism: A Look at the Fine-Tuned Universe

[+joc]

2 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

I don't like him, but I did like Pluto.

Why don't you like Neil?  

[+Sherapy]

8 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

I believe most are capable but many are just too damn lazy to develop anything deep or meaningful in regards to their thinking ability. 
 

cormac

It is hard work too.

Edited September 17, 2023 by Sherapy

[cormac mac airt]

Just now, Sherapy said:

It is hard work too. 

And as technology progresses many are only looking for an easy way out unfortunately. 
 

cormac

[+Sherapy]

Just now, cormac mac airt said:

And as technology progresses many are only looking for an easy way out unfortunately. 
 

cormac

There isn’t one. 

[Tatetopa]

1 minute ago, Sherapy said:

It is hard work too. 

Its also fun, exciting, and extremely rewarding. 

[+Hammerclaw]

5 minutes ago, joc said:

Why don't you like Neil?  

Not worthy to stand in Sagan's shadow. He's too dogmatic for my tastes and too much a media darling. Sheldon was right about him.

Edited September 17, 2023 by Hammerclaw

[+Sherapy]

2 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

It’s also fun, exciting, and extremely rewarding. 

OMG, yes! It creates a lifelong learner. 

[+Sherapy]

13 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

Only for disgusting people who called me the disgusting slur, Bolshevik. 

The real CH sharing his construct about the imagined CH, the love guru. 

Edited September 17, 2023 by Sherapy

[+joc]

5 hours ago, XenoFish said:

A smart Christian could look at science not as an enemy, but as the art of understanding the works of God. 

Just a thought.

Foul ball!  Gotta disagree with you altogether there Xeno.  Science is the enemy of Christianity.  It has to be...it goes against everything they believe in.  Especially, the virgin birth, walking on water, resurrection.  Plus, the Catholic Church created the Gregorian Calendar that expresses a 7 day week.  After all God didn't say, let there be light, and billions of years went by before he got around to saying that it was good.

At every instance Science expresses to Christianity that it is completely out of touch with reality.   Smart Christians?  I think that is kind of a misnomer all by itself.

Edited September 17, 2023 by joc

[+Hammerclaw]

8 minutes ago, joc said:

Foul ball!  Gotta disagree with you altogether there Xeno.  Science is the enemy of Christianity.  It has to be...it goes against everything they believe in.  Especially, the virgin birth, walking on water, resurrection.  Plus, the Catholic Church created the Gregorian Calendar that expresses a 7 day week.  After all God didn't say, let there be light, and billions of years went by before he got around to saying that it was good.

At every instance Science expresses to Christianity that it is completely out of touch with reality.   Smart Christians?  I think that is kind of a misnomer all by itself.

There's a lot of Christians smarter than you, pal. Of course, that wouldn't take much effort.

List of Christian Nobel laureates - Wikipedia

Edited September 17, 2023 by Hammerclaw

[Rlyeh]

1 hour ago, Crazy Horse said:

Well, in a slightly twisted and contorted way, you are quite right.

The entire biological history of life on Earth vs someone (you) who gives lip service to their imaginary friend.

 

1 hour ago, Crazy Horse said:

Because things have become so corrupt, so selfish, arrogant and self important, that more an more normies are no longer able to simple stick their heads into the sand. Not when your future is hanging by a thread.

So in a round about way, these psychotic levels of selfishness shall actually help, (some of us) to transition into a New Age.

A New Age sans ego.

Normies?  Are you an incel?

[XenoFish]

43 minutes ago, joc said:

Foul ball!  Gotta disagree with you altogether there Xeno.  Science is the enemy of Christianity.  It has to be...it goes against everything they believe in.  Especially, the virgin birth, walking on water, resurrection.  Plus, the Catholic Church created the Gregorian Calendar that expresses a 7 day week.  After all God didn't say, let there be light, and billions of years went by before he got around to saying that it was good.

At every instance Science expresses to Christianity that it is completely out of touch with reality.   Smart Christians?  I think that is kind of a misnomer all by itself.

Whatever.

[+Razman]

1 hour ago, joc said:

 I'm guessing you meant 'millions' since the entire shabooshka is only 13.8 billion years old...but I digress...

 

Neil  Degrasse Tyson said pretty much the same thing:

Yes millions , but even millions would be a huge difference.  Theirs is basically  an estimation , really you got to wonder though since they don't really know how big it is , or even if there are other universes , or it could be infinite.

[Antigonos]

1 hour ago, Crazy Horse said:

Spoken like a true Bolshevik.

Don’t throw around historical terms that you know nothing about. The Bolsheviks would never have let you discuss your religion in the first place, let alone allow you to get to the point of preaching it before being disciplined for not following their rules. And their discipline  was either imprisonment or execution, usually both; not being banned for a few days from posting in a public forum because you lack the self control to keep from vomiting your inane verbal diarrhea in front of everyone.
 

Another drama queen martyr. 

[+joc]

46 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Whatever.

Thank you for the concise and innovative response. 

[XenoFish]

2 minutes ago, joc said:

Thank you for the concise and innovative response. 

A fitting response to a smart ass remark.

[+joc]

1 hour ago, Hammerclaw said:

There's a lot of Christians smarter than you, pal. Of course, that wouldn't take much effort.

List of Christian Nobel laureates - Wikipedia

Me thinks we toucheded a raw nerve me precious...we toucheded one we did...

[+joc]

2 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

A fitting response to a smart ass remark.

Smart ass...Smart Christian...

Whatever

[+Hammerclaw]

33 minutes ago, joc said:

Me thinks we toucheded a raw nerve me precious...we toucheded one we did...

You said something stupid and your friends are embarrassed for you. Just deal with it, Hudson.

Edited September 17, 2023 by Hammerclaw

[lightly]

21 hours ago, ReadTheGreatControversyEGW said:

And why would you need 2 different sexes, male and female, to reproduce? This is visible throughout the world. Why do both exist? You should be able to reproduce with just one. Why 2? In fact if the theory of the origin of life is correct, we should be self replicating since it is taught that everything came from a single cell. It would seem that is more likely. Why would there be 2 distinctly separate and very different sexes for reproduction?   

More fun that way?     but ,mainly beecause it works so good? ..similar to bees & humming birds being attracted to flowers for the nectar..and, in the process, spreading the pollen to fertilize other flowers. ?         (personally,I believe bees and hummingbirds Love flowers;)

[+Hammerclaw]

14 minutes ago, lightly said:

More fun that way?     but ,mainly beecause it works so good? ..similar to bees & humming birds being attracted to flowers for the nectar..and, in the process, spreading the pollen to fertilize other flowers. ?         (personally,I believe bees and hummingbirds Love flowers;)

Nature tried Amphimixis early in the history of life and found it the most effective means of reproduction, promoting genetic diversity, avoiding genetic stagnation.

[jmccr8]

3 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

And yet I still am not preaching.

Relaying personal experiences is not against the rules.

Hi Crazy Horse

You made a god statement without describing your personal experience so all you relayed was a god is all nothing burger which is preaching.

[ReadTheGreatControversyEGW]

On 9/16/2023 at 4:05 PM, cormac mac airt said:

Quote

Multiple constants working in tandem, exact values. If they were slightly off, life and the Universe could not exist/ would cease to exist.

Those multiple constants didn’t all occur simultaneously especially considering that cosmic inflation at the start of our universe propelled the expansion of said universe faster than the speed of light, whereas internally for the first few seconds the speed of light had negligible meaning in regards to distance. Add to that that later it would take billions of years for evolution to even occur and then a further few billion years to go from single cellular to multicellular organisms such as us. It’s easy to whitewash religious BS as relevant to factual history but that’s all it is, BS. 

All these constants are in operation simultaneously, meaning they are presently in existence working at the same time and if any of them were off by just a little, life would cease. That's the point. 

[cormac mac airt]

1 minute ago, ReadTheGreatControversyEGW said:

All these constants are in operation simultaneously, meaning they are presently in existence working at the same time and if any of them were off by just a little, life would cease. That's the point. 

Actual point is they didn’t start out that way nor were they interconnected originally. But then 13+ billion years of development has a tendency of allowing for a great many things, none of which require some sort of intelligence to direct it all. 
 

cormac

[ReadTheGreatControversyEGW]

22 hours ago, Occupational Hubris said:

On 9/16/2023 at 2:54 PM, ReadTheGreatControversyEGW said:

Multiple constants working in tandem, exact values. If they were slightly off, life and the Universe could not exist/ would cease to exist. 

You're looking at it wrong. If they were off, we wouldn't be here. The very fact that we are here means that they're not. We are a product of those values. We are here because of them. Not the other way around. 

I know they are not off. That is definitely not my argument. We have at work in the universe fundamental constants of physics and chemistry, exact numerical values that are in operation at any given moment. And as I said before, if any of these values were slightly off, it would cause huge disruptions in the world and the rest of the universe. It's not just one constant but multiple, perfectly fine-tuned to allow for life. This is astonishing! Intelligence at work. 

From OP article - "change various particle masses and charges, and the stars would burn too quickly or too slowly, or atoms and molecules, including water, carbon and oxygen, would not form or would not remain stable.

It is not that we cannot imagine another world in which intelligence or life might exist. It is rather that, in this world, any of a hundred small shifts this way or that would render everything blank. Astrophysicists John D. Barrow and Joseph Silk calculate that "small changes in the electric charge of the electron would block any kind of chemistry" ("The Structure of the Early Universe," Scientific American, April 1980: see also John D. Barrow and Frank J. Tipler, The Anthropic Cosmological Principle). A fractional difference, and there would have been nothing. It would be so easy to miss, and there are no hits in the revised universes we can imagine: and yet this universe is a delicate, intricate hit."