Bidenomics: why it’s more likely to win the 2024 election than many people think

[Still Waters]

Quote

Joe Biden has come out fighting against perceptions that he is handling the US economy badly. During an address in Maryland, the president contrasted Bidenomics with Trumpian “MAGAnomics” that would involve tax-cutting and spending reductions. He decried trickle-down policies that had, “shipped jobs overseas, hollowed out communities and produced soaring deficits”.

Changing voters’ minds about the economy is one of Biden’s biggest challenges ahead of the 2024 election. Recent polling data suggested 63% of Americans are negative on the US economy, while 45% said their financial situation had deteriorated in the last two years.

Voters are also downbeat about Biden. In a recent CNN poll, almost 75% of respondents were “seriously” concerned about his mental and physical competence. Even 60% of Democratic and Democratic-leaning respondents were “seriously” concerned he would lose in 2024.

Continued:

https://theconversation.com/bidenomics-why-its-more-likely-to-win-the-2024-election-than-many-people-think-213281

[Katniss]

 To add to this; Allan Lichtman on why Joe Biden should run in 2024.

 

Is Allen Lichtman right and are the Democrats wrong about Biden dropping out of the race in 2024?  We will know more as 2024 approaches, but keep in mind Lichtman is rarely ever wrong.

 

 

[A rather obscure Bassoon]

Maybe whomever is in Charge should run for president because it’s pretty clear Biden is now living in dribbley land and is being handled from behind the scenes.

 

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

Head-to-head, I think Biden would beat Trump again, but this time, there will be a Green party candidate, Cornel West, that can take some votes from Biden. 

Long way to go. 

[+Paranoid Android]

The headline of the article is written as if Joe Biden is underdog in this race. While the odds seem to be tightening in Trump's favour, Joe Biden is still the overall leader in the race. If the Republican candidate is anyone but Trump, then Joe Biden is going to have a very difficult time of it. Trump is virtually unelectable, and has been since he threw his toys out of the pram in November 2020. It's a sign of how bad Biden is going that Trump is even close, and if Trump does win it will almost entirely be because of the democrat's incompetence. 

[spartan max2]

30 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Head-to-head, I think Biden would beat Trump again, but this time, there will be a Green party candidate, Cornel West, that can take some votes from Biden. 

Long way to go. 

There's been a green party candidate every presidential election.

Believing they will siphon off Biden voters is wishful thinking from Trump supporters. 

[spartan max2]

The US has had the best recovery of most nations. Which is a feat. Inflation has cooled down. What people want is deflation, for prices to drop, which won't happened regardless of who is president. And deflation typically leads to some mass layoffs.

Quote

The IMF predicts the US economy will grow 1.8% in 2023, the strongest among the G7. The US also has the group’s lowest inflation rate, although it rose in August. On the closely watched core-inflation metric, which excludes food and energy, the US is mid-table, though improving.

In election terms I think it's worth noticing who is immediately benefiting from alot of public investment. A lot of blue collar jobs. A lot of construction, a lot of contracts. If that digs into some of Trump's chunk of voters in the Midwest then it's game over for Trumpo in 2024.

Edited September 19 by spartan max2

[Katniss]

16 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Head-to-head, I think Biden would beat Trump again, but this time, there will be a Green party candidate, Cornel West, that can take some votes from Biden. 

Long way to go. 

It would be nice if someone from a third party would beat both of them, Green party, Forward party, any other party, but we all know the reality of that is near impossible with a dominate two party system.

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

19 hours ago, spartan max2 said:

There's been a green party candidate every presidential election.

Believing they will siphon off Biden voters is wishful thinking from Trump supporters. 

I agree with that but this guy is very popular. We'll see.

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

3 hours ago, Katniss said:

It would be nice if someone from a third party would beat both of them,

There ya go lol!!

Did you ever see two such loser candidates, and twice in a row. How about the two of them accused of rape, and still the show goes on. Criminy. 

[Golden Duck]

4 hours ago, Katniss said:

It would be nice if someone from a third party would beat both of them, Green party, Forward party, any other party, but we all know the reality of that is near impossible with a dominate two party system.

What about the You've Gotta Fight For Your Right To Party?

[DarkHunter]

23 hours ago, spartan max2 said:

There's been a green party candidate every presidential election.

Believing they will siphon off Biden voters is wishful thinking from Trump supporters. 

That is not always true, in Pennsylvania after a court battle the Democrats were able to keep the Green party candidate off the ballot for the general election in 2020.  

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/politics/decision-2020/pa-supreme-court-boots-green-party-candidate-off-november-ballot/2536242/%3famp=1

[spartan max2]

35 minutes ago, DarkHunter said:

That is not always true, in Pennsylvania after a court battle the Democrats were able to keep the Green party candidate off the ballot for the general election in 2020.  

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/politics/decision-2020/pa-supreme-court-boots-green-party-candidate-off-november-ballot/2536242/%3famp=1

There's been a green party running every election and they've never won a state. One state blocking them on the ballot (which dosen't block write ins) ,due to "irregularities" on their application in 2020 dosen't change that.

Same with libertarians.

Until this nation implements ranked choice voting across the board, third parties won't be viable. 

Edited September 20 by spartan max2

[ExpandMyMind]

It's a tough pill to swallow for many, but, objectively speaking, Biden's economy is superb. Obviously there are mitigating circumstances, but it's still doing great.

I mean basically any economy in the US or here in the UK where they don't grant massive tax breaks to the wealthy end up doing great.

Who'd have thought that taking fair tax from the super rich while distributing wealth throughout the general population, who don't hoard it all and instead fuel the economy, would work.

Pretty much all economists, as far as I'm aware.

 

[DarkHunter]

7 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

There's been a green party running every election and they've never won a state. One state blocking them on the ballot (which dosen't block write ins) ,due to "irregularities" on their application in 2020 dosen't change that.

Same with libertarians.

Until this nation implements ranked choice voting across the board, third parties won't be viable. 

Don't act like Pennsylvania wasn't a critical battleground state and that only 80,555 votes separated Trump and Biden out of 6,915,283.  Also don't act like writing in is anywhere near as good as actually being on the ballot, we both know being a write in candidate severely handicaps the candidate.

There has been six presidential elections since the Green party has formed.  Just in Pennsylvania the results for the Green party has been

• 2000 - 2.1%
• 2004 - 0.11%
• 2008 - 0% (They got 71 votes with a bunch of other political parties on the ballot)
• 2012 - 0.37%
• 2016 - 0.81%

The reality is if Biden would of lost approximately 1.17% of the vote then Trump would of won Pennsylvania and the Democratic party was concerned enough that it was a possibility that the Green party would takr that much of the vote from Biden that they fought a legal battle to keep the Green party off the ballot.

Ranked choice voting won't help third parties gain power.  The reality is that with the way the government of the United States is set up the most stable system is a two party system.  If you want third parties to be viable then you need a parliamentary style of legislature, changing to ranked choice voting won't do that.  All ranked choice voting would do is give an advantage to politicians that appeal to the moderates of their party during the primaries instead of the extremist having an advantage in the primaries.  Ranked choice voting fails with only two viable options on the ballot.

[spartan max2]

23 minutes ago, DarkHunter said:

Don't act like Pennsylvania wasn't a critical battleground state and that only 80,555 votes separated Trump and Biden out of 6,915,283.  Also don't act like writing in is anywhere near as good as actually being on the ballot, we both know being a write in candidate severely handicaps the candidate.

There has been six presidential elections since the Green party has formed.  Just in Pennsylvania the results for the Green party has been

• 2000 - 2.1%
• 2004 - 0.11%
• 2008 - 0% (They got 71 votes with a bunch of other political parties on the ballot)
• 2012 - 0.37%
• 2016 - 0.81%

The reality is if Biden would of lost approximately 1.17% of the vote then Trump would of won Pennsylvania and the Democratic party was concerned enough that it was a possibility that the Green party would takr that much of the vote from Biden that they fought a legal battle to keep the Green party off the ballot.

 

You're making many assumptions. That the people planning to vote Green didn't because it wasn't on the ballot (as opposed to writing in) 

And 2) that they voted Democrat instead of the more realistic option that they simply didn't vote.

Truthfully I've only seen right wing people mention the Green party and that because they secretly hope for a third party spoil that would win Trump the election. 

The man you said is popular I've never heard of. Yet I'm supposedly the type of votes he'd be stealing from Biden.

 

Quote

Ranked choice voting won't help third parties gain power.  The reality is that with the way the government of the United States is set up the most stable system is a two party system.  If you want third parties to be viable then you need a parliamentary style of legislature, changing to ranked choice voting won't do that.  All ranked choice voting would do is give an advantage to politicians that appeal to the moderates of their party during the primaries instead of the extremist having an advantage in the primaries.  Ranked choice voting fails with only two viable options on the ballot.

Rank choices voting is the only way the US will ever have viable third parties.

It'd be impossible to change to a parliament system and I doubt enough people who support that change.

Ranked choice voting would give people the confidence to vote however they choose which would open up many more options. Not just presidential but also with the Senate , house, and local governments.

The republican legislators in Ohio are acting to deny ranked choice voting and the Democrat legislatures in DC also are. They do it because they know what ranked choice voting would open up.

As for the bolded. 1) sweet, I'm tired of extremist.

And 2) with ranked choice voting primaries wouldn't be as relevant because each party would have their own primaries. People would vote ranked choice in the actual elections. Hell, a politician wouldn't even need to run under a party.

Edited September 20 by spartan max2

[DarkHunter]

13 hours ago, spartan max2 said:

You're making many assumptions. That the people planning to vote Green didn't because it wasn't on the ballot (as opposed to writing in) 

And 2) that they voted Democrat instead of the more realistic option that they simply didn't vote.

Truthfully I've only seen right wing people mention the Green party and that because they secretly hope for a third party spoil that would win Trump the election. 

The man you said is popular I've never heard of. Yet I'm supposedly the type of votes he'd be stealing from Biden.

It's not an assumption that not being on the ballot is a massive handicap compared to being on the ballot.  If part of your argument is that writing in is just as good as being on the ballot then you are just being outright dishonest.

The reality is, which you desperately keep trying to ignore, is that the Democratic party spent a significant amount of money and time fighting a legal battle to keep the Green party off the ballot.  You simply don't put that much time and resources into something during an election if it won't help you win the election. 

I never claimed he was popular, expectedly getting less then 2% of the vote doesn't make a guy popular, but since you won't to use dishonest statements like writing in is just as good as being on the ballot then claiming I said things that I didn't should also be expected.

13 hours ago, spartan max2 said:

Rank choices voting is the only way the US will ever have viable third parties.

It'd be impossible to change to a parliament system and I doubt enough people who support that change.

Ranked choice voting would give people the confidence to vote however they choose which would open up many more options. Not just presidential but also with the Senate , house, and local governments.

The republican legislators in Ohio are acting to deny ranked choice voting and the Democrat legislatures in DC also are. They do it because they know what ranked choice voting would open up.

As for the bolded. 1) sweet, I'm tired of extremist.

And 2) with ranked choice voting primaries wouldn't be as relevant because each party would have their own primaries. People would vote ranked choice in the actual elections. Hell, a politician wouldn't even need to run under a party.

Despite how much you say it and want to believe it ranked choice voting won't end the two party system and it won't deliver on what you claim it will.  Ranked choice voting has been in use at the local level in quite a few areas of the United States for 10+ years now and those local areas still have the Democrats and Republicans dominating.  The reality is as long as the government structure is the same then the only viable option is a two party system.  There is a reason why since near the founding of the nation there has always been two dominating political parties.

Ohio and DC aren't blocking ranked choice voting cause it will open it up to third parties they are blocking it cause ranked choice voting would change the rules of the game enough to where they might not win individually.  People don't like to accept this but elections are essentially games where how well liked or good a politician is doesn't really matter while what matters is how good their strategy for winning is within the rules of the election.  People who have a winning strategy already for a set of rules generally won't want the rules changed.

[itsnotoutthere]

Yes, of course it is.

[DieChecker]

On 9/18/2023 at 5:50 PM, spartan max2 said:

In election terms I think it's worth noticing who is immediately benefiting from alot of public investment. A lot of blue collar jobs. A lot of construction, a lot of contracts. If that digs into some of Trump's chunk of voters in the Midwest then it's game over for Trumpo in 2024.

While that may be strictly true, the polls show a lot of those blue collar folks don't believe it.

On 9/19/2023 at 6:21 PM, ExpandMyMind said:

It's a tough pill to swallow for many, but, objectively speaking, Biden's economy is superb. Obviously there are mitigating circumstances, but it's still doing great.

As a conservative, and former Trump voter, I give the little bit of credit deserved to Pelosi, not Joe. Joe only just signed the Bills... Pelosi wrote, and got them passed.

Otherwise, yeah, I think things done suck terribly. Stock Market is up. Home values are up. Pay generally is up. Unemployment is down. As long as the Fed Reserve doesn't push us into a recession, it doesn't look too bad.

Edited September 24 by DieChecker

[Doc Socks Junior]

7 hours ago, DieChecker said:

While that may be strictly true, the polls show a lot of those blue collar folks don't believe it.

Hah, it's the story of politics at the moment.