Nihilisn, Nationalism & Nazism

[ReadTheGreatControversyEGW]

Are all truths subjective? Are there any objective truths? 

If all truths are subjective, then there is no truth at all and the world is in chaos. Because nothing is true. Order and truth are inseparably linked. What do you think of all this?   

Truth is defined as facts, actuality or reality. The reality of a situation. This is truth. Are all truths easily or immediately discernible/perceivable? I don't think so.   

"Nietzsche’s assessment was as follows: once one understands that there is no higher purpose to the life we live, our “action, suffering, willing and feeling” will have no meaning. [1] One who embraces these values, and thus understands that individuals may set their own purpose for life, is defined by Nietzsche as an “Ubermensch,” or a “superman.”

"In his rise to power, Hitler built the concept of the Aryan race upon Nietzsche’s “Ubermensch.” Germany during the 1930’s was a nation with a majority that faced burdens from the first World War — burdens put on them by their previous generation—which, naturally, they wished to blame on others. Hitler defined the qualities of an “Ubermensch”—one who is intelligent enough to set their own purpose for life—as qualities exclusively inherent of the Aryan race. On the other hand, Hitler coined the term “Untermenschen” to describe Jews, homosexuals, and black people, as well as all others, meaning “inferior humans.” Hitler saw in his people a self-focused mentality, as well as a lack of care for understanding the meaning of others’ suffering because of that." 

https://slcpoliticalreview.com/2017/12/11/anarchy-from-nihilism-to-nationalism-to-nazism/

"once one understands that there is no higher purpose to the life we live, our “action, suffering, willing and feeling” will have no meaning." 

No higher purpose to life? Then 'let's eat and drink for tomorrow we die' Everything you do have no meaning? Oh but it does! 

Nihilism - the belief that all values are baseless and that nothing can be known or communicated. He actually proposed new values, calling it the lack thereof.   

What he provided was a belief system that left no fundamental basis for good and evil, right and wrong. The problem is that, what is right to one may be wrong and even harmful for another. 

The article said that certain people misused Nietzsche’s ideas. Well why not? It teaches anarchy, but in a subtle way.  Anarchy - defined as the 'absence of any cohesive principle, such as a common standard or purpose.'      
 

[XenoFish]

And existentialist also create their own meaning to their lives, those who embrace the absurdity of life can live without a hard meaning or defined purpose. So what's your point? 

 

Edited September 22, 2023 by XenoFish

[+joc]

15 minutes ago, ReadTheGreatControversyEGW said:

Are all truths subjective? Are there any objective truths? 

If all truths are subjective, then there is no truth at all and the world is in chaos. Because nothing is true. Order and truth are inseparably linked. What do you think of all this?   

Truth is defined as facts, actuality or reality. The reality of a situation. This is truth. Are all truths easily or immediately discernible/perceivable? I don't think so.   

"Nietzsche’s assessment was as follows: once one understands that there is no higher purpose to the life we live, our “action, suffering, willing and feeling” will have no meaning. [1] One who embraces these values, and thus understands that individuals may set their own purpose for life, is defined by Nietzsche as an “Ubermensch,” or a “superman.”

"In his rise to power, Hitler built the concept of the Aryan race upon Nietzsche’s “Ubermensch.” Germany during the 1930’s was a nation with a majority that faced burdens from the first World War — burdens put on them by their previous generation—which, naturally, they wished to blame on others. Hitler defined the qualities of an “Ubermensch”—one who is intelligent enough to set their own purpose for life—as qualities exclusively inherent of the Aryan race. On the other hand, Hitler coined the term “Untermenschen” to describe Jews, homosexuals, and black people, as well as all others, meaning “inferior humans.” Hitler saw in his people a self-focused mentality, as well as a lack of care for understanding the meaning of others’ suffering because of that." 

https://slcpoliticalreview.com/2017/12/11/anarchy-from-nihilism-to-nationalism-to-nazism/

"once one understands that there is no higher purpose to the life we live, our “action, suffering, willing and feeling” will have no meaning." 

No higher purpose to life? Then 'let's eat and drink for tomorrow we die' Everything you do have no meaning? Oh but it does! 

Nihilism - the belief that all values are baseless and that nothing can be known or communicated. He actually proposed new values, calling it the lack thereof.   

What he provided was a belief system that left no fundamental basis for good and evil, right and wrong. The problem is that, what is right to one may be wrong and even harmful for another. 

The article said that certain people misused Nietzsche’s ideas. Well why not? It teaches anarchy, but in a subtle way.  Anarchy - defined as the 'absence of any cohesive principle, such as a common standard or purpose.'      
 

You have no concept of real truth.  

[Antigonos]

“Subjective truths” 

Will Due’s famous phrase.

[XenoFish]

Quote

An optimistic nihilist is one who believes that in the absence of a true meaning to life, one must work towards their own personal happiness. While this way of life may seem harmless to others, we must acknowledge the broader effect of a societally nihilist mindset: one which validates self-concern, must in turn invalidate the concerns of others. The current rise of nihilism as a dominant philosophical belief inherently brings about nationalism as its broadened version of self-focus. I will go on to argue that this “broadened self-focus” fomented by nihilism today is the nascent state of what will become radical nationalism; or in other words, Nazism.

An optimistic nihilist sees through the illusions of life and embraces what life has to offer. Since nothing matters then there is no reason to accept anything dogmatically. 

The pursuit of individual happiness is not necessarily with moral or self regulation. It doesn't automatically make such a person a hedonist. 

An angry nihilist is one searching for meaning, the optimist nihilist know that meaning is trival. 

[Alchopwn]

5 hours ago, ReadTheGreatControversyEGW said:

Are all truths subjective? Are there any objective truths? 

There are a great many objective truths.  Science, as an observation of the Universe and the Natural World is able to predict the behavior of a great many physical systems with a precision that beggars the imagination.  An excellent example involves the working of the very form of computer you are using presently.  Despite the apparently randomness of quantum physics, the fact is that chaos theory tells us that systems are only random until you understand their fluctuations to enough decimal places, and then they become utterly predictable.  Every computer is a wonder of the objective truths of science's ability to know exactly what is going to happen next and levels so small they are really quite extraordinary.  While not every science presently provides this level of predictive capacity, there are a great many things that human beings now understand thanks to mathematics and the scientific method that can pretty readily be described as objectively being true.  Remember also that subjective and objective are not opposites; this is a common mistake people fall into.  Something can be both subjectively and objectively true at the same time.

Edited September 22, 2023 by Alchopwn

[Alchopwn]

5 hours ago, ReadTheGreatControversyEGW said:

 "Nietzsche’s assessment was as follows: once one understands that there is no higher purpose to the life we live, our “action, suffering, willing and feeling” will have no meaning. [1] One who embraces these values, and thus understands that individuals may set their own purpose for life, is defined by Nietzsche as an “Ubermensch,” or a “superman.”

"In his rise to power, Hitler built the concept of the Aryan race upon Nietzsche’s “Ubermensch.” Germany during the 1930’s was a nation with a majority that faced burdens from the first World War — burdens put on them by their previous generation—which, naturally, they wished to blame on others. Hitler defined the qualities of an “Ubermensch”—one who is intelligent enough to set their own purpose for life—as qualities exclusively inherent of the Aryan race. On the other hand, Hitler coined the term “Untermenschen” to describe Jews, homosexuals, and black people, as well as all others, meaning “inferior humans.” Hitler saw in his people a self-focused mentality, as well as a lack of care for understanding the meaning of others’ suffering because of that." 

https://slcpoliticalreview.com/2017/12/11/anarchy-from-nihilism-to-nationalism-to-nazism/

I should add that this is a gross mischaracterization of Nietzsche's philosophy.  The Nazis didn't properly understand Nietzsche, and so they shamelessly cherry picked things they liked.  Nietzsche personally and passionately loathed Anti-Semites and often told people exactly that.

Also the idea that in a world where religion is no longer the source of meaning, this is not a source of submission to dark impulses.  Consider if you will the horrors of Christianity and its totalitarian grasp on the human psyche and all the evil that it wrought.  Centuries of religious persecution of other religions, no respect for a person's freedom of conscience, mass execution of people who didn't conform and the wholesale loss, disrespect and destruction of the material culture that went before Christianity, as well as the incalculable loss of so many books from antiquity, not to mention the collapse of urban infrastructure and the loss of medical knowledge that the destruction of the Classical world by Christianity entailed.  In any case it is more than possible to point to the fact that Hitler, Franco, and Mussolini were all Catholics, and indeed there is a growing body of literature that views the growth of Fascism as a covert attempt by the Vatican to create a counter-force to Communism that would re-Feudalize Europe and return the Church to its former status as the governing totalitarian thought police force.  This rather flips your whole argument on its head.

[eight bits]

8 hours ago, ReadTheGreatControversyEGW said:

"In his rise to power, Hitler built the concept of the Aryan race upon Nietzsche’s “Ubermensch.” Germany during the 1930’s was a nation with a majority that faced burdens from the first World War — burdens put on them by their previous generation—which, naturally, they wished to blame on others. Hitler defined the qualities of an “Ubermensch”—one who is intelligent enough to set their own purpose for life—as qualities exclusively inherent of the Aryan race. On the other hand, Hitler coined the term “Untermenschen” to describe Jews, homosexuals, and black people, as well as all others, meaning “inferior humans.” Hitler saw in his people a self-focused mentality, as well as a lack of care for understanding the meaning of others’ suffering because of that." 

So, in sum, Hitler & Company did for Nietzsche’s term Ubermensch ("Superman") what you yourself did recently with the King James's term science. You liked the sound of it, and that sound fit your agenda, so you preached that sound as if the sound were the term's meaning, even though that was not the meaning intended by the original users of the term.

Read your fracking quote. Individuals setting their own purpose for life is the very antithesis of fascism.

[XenoFish]

1 hour ago, eight bits said:

Individuals setting their own purpose for life is the very antithesis of fascism.

An add too.

https://philosophybreak.com/articles/ubermensch-explained-the-meaning-of-nietzsches-superman/

[Sojo]

Truth. Such a strange thing. Some truth may be objective, that is, set and unchanging. Seen the same by everyone regardless of perspective.

Some truth is subjective, that is, true for the perspective from which it is seen by an observer. Another observer may be seeing something different from their different perspective.

Some truth is temporal, that is, true for a time but then not true as things change. Some things that were true in the past are no longer true today. Some things that are true today will not be true in the future.

The only authority who would be able to speak to the full, complete truthfulness of anything would be someone with the absolute greatest perspective possible. who could see all angles and perspectives.

And, when truth gets into the incorporation of emotions, feelings, and incomplete analysis of available information, then even strict rules of logic and semantics are greatly challenged.

I guess that leaves us all established as full-blown seekers of truth unless and until we can find some source or intelligence that has been around long enough to actually know whats what and is willing to share it with those who truly and sincerely seek it.

The problem is, if there is an original source intelligence that has complete and total understanding of all that has transpired and will continue to transpire throughout the universe, how would one know whether a source of information is that very one that we can rely on to lead or guide us (that is even if they were so inclined to do so) into all truth.

If a greater understanding of truth is to be had by anyone, I think it would have to be revealed by a greater source of understanding providing it to a lesser source of understanding.

Of course life and experience is quite a reveal of how many truths are. We simply experience things and learn what happens as a result of this or that action.

But when some truth in the hands of unrighteous beings is used in deceptive manner, then whole groups of people can be swayed due to their lack of understanding about what is happening.

This is why I do believe in a Spirit of Truth that can help guide and lead me through all my worldly experiences as I continue to strive and sincerely seek to improve myself and learn how to be a better citizen.

Regards,

Sojo

[+Sherapy]

11 hours ago, ReadTheGreatControversyEGW said:

Are all truths subjective? Are there any objective truths? 

If all truths are subjective, then there is no truth at all and the world is in chaos. Because nothing is true. Order and truth are inseparably linked. What do you think of all this?   

Truth is defined as facts, actuality or reality. The reality of a situation. This is truth. Are all truths easily or immediately discernible/perceivable? I don't think so.   

"Nietzsche’s assessment was as follows: once one understands that there is no higher purpose to the life we live, our “action, suffering, willing and feeling” will have no meaning. [1] One who embraces these values, and thus understands that individuals may set their own purpose for life, is defined by Nietzsche as an “Ubermensch,” or a “superman.”

"In his rise to power, Hitler built the concept of the Aryan race upon Nietzsche’s “Ubermensch.” Germany during the 1930’s was a nation with a majority that faced burdens from the first World War — burdens put on them by their previous generation—which, naturally, they wished to blame on others. Hitler defined the qualities of an “Ubermensch”—one who is intelligent enough to set their own purpose for life—as qualities exclusively inherent of the Aryan race. On the other hand, Hitler coined the term “Untermenschen” to describe Jews, homosexuals, and black people, as well as all others, meaning “inferior humans.” Hitler saw in his people a self-focused mentality, as well as a lack of care for understanding the meaning of others’ suffering because of that." 

https://slcpoliticalreview.com/2017/12/11/anarchy-from-nihilism-to-nationalism-to-nazism/

"once one understands that there is no higher purpose to the life we live, our “action, suffering, willing and feeling” will have no meaning." 

No higher purpose to life? Then 'let's eat and drink for tomorrow we die' Everything you do have no meaning? Oh but it does! 

Nihilism - the belief that all values are baseless and that nothing can be known or communicated. He actually proposed new values, calling it the lack thereof.   

What he provided was a belief system that left no fundamental basis for good and evil, right and wrong. The problem is that, what is right to one may be wrong and even harmful for another. 

The article said that certain people misused Nietzsche’s ideas. Well why not? It teaches anarchy, but in a subtle way.  Anarchy - defined as the 'absence of any cohesive principle, such as a common standard or purpose.'      
 

It is important to note that not all truths are necessarily subjective. There are known objective truths that are independent of personal opinions or perspectives. For example, scientific facts, mathematical principles, and historical events can all be considered objective truths.

And, there are also many aspects of truth that can be subjective. Personal beliefs, values, and experiences can shape how individuals perceive and interpret reality. This subjectivity can lead to differences in perspectives and opinions about what is true, this is basically what is going on with you.

Regarding the connection between truth and chaos, it is worth noting that while subjective truths can lead to diverse perspectives, it doesn't necessarily mean that chaos ensues. Societies can establish consensus and shared values based on subjective truths, allowing for order and cooperation. Additionally, objective truths can serve as a foundation for understanding and organizing our world.

As for the reference to Nietzsche and the concept of the Ubermensch, it is important to understand that Nietzsche's philosophy has been interpreted in various ways and applied differently by different individuals. While some may argue that his ideas can lead to anarchy or a lack of moral guidance, it is also possible to interpret Nietzsche as encouraging individuals to take responsibility for their own lives and find their own meanings and values, rather than relying solely on external sources.

The nature of truth is complex and multifaceted, encompassing both objective and subjective elements. It is on you to critically examine various perspectives and strive for a balanced understanding of truth.

 

[spartan max2]

1 hour ago, XenoFish said:

An add too.

https://philosophybreak.com/articles/ubermensch-explained-the-meaning-of-nietzsches-superman/

That is what I was going to share.

Nietzsche thing was that once we accept that life it ultimately meaningless that we both as individuals and as the human race could either give in to despair or rise to become our greatest selfs, the Superman.

[XenoFish]

I like using objective truth and subjective opinion. For some reason the term subjective truth doesn't feel like. 

[XenoFish]

1 minute ago, spartan max2 said:

That is what I was going to share.

Nietzsche thing was that once we accept that life it ultimately meaningless that we both as individuals and as the human race could either give in to despair or rise to become our greatest selfs, the Superman.

Sometime the despair is needed for growth. 

[spartan max2]

2 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Sometime the despair is needed for growth. 

Experiencing negative emotions sometimes is healthy. I was just sharing Nietzsche philosophy more to OP.

Edited September 22, 2023 by spartan max2

[XenoFish]

22 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

Experiencing negative emotions sometimes is healthy. I was just sharing Nietzsche philosophy more to OP.

I know, I'm just going from personal experience. 

[ReadTheGreatControversyEGW]

12 hours ago, ReadTheGreatControversyEGW said:

Nietzsche’s assessment was as follows: once one understands that there is no higher purpose to the life we live, our “action, suffering, willing and feeling” will have no meaning. [1] One who embraces these values, and thus understands that individuals may set their own purpose for life, is defined by Nietzsche as an “Ubermensch,” or a “superman.”

"In his rise to power, Hitler built the concept of the Aryan race upon Nietzsche’s “Ubermensch.” Germany during the 1930’s was a nation with a majority that faced burdens from the first World War — burdens put on them by their previous generation—which, naturally, they wished to blame on others. Hitler defined the qualities of an “Ubermensch”—one who is intelligent enough to set their own purpose for life

We do not need him to tell us some craziness like - life has no real meaning and what we do also means nothing - to be able to set our own purpose for how we are going to live. We already do that all time. And telling us something like that Is dangerous because we humans can be pretty evil at times lol ... 

[spartan max2]

6 minutes ago, ReadTheGreatControversyEGW said:

We do not need him to tell us some craziness like - life has no real meaning and what we do also means nothing - to be able to set our own purpose for how we are going to live. We already do that all time. And telling us something like that Is dangerous because we humans can be pretty evil at times lol ... 

If you woke up tommorow and no longer believed in God. What would you do?

[XenoFish]

10 minutes ago, ReadTheGreatControversyEGW said:

We do not need him to tell us some craziness like - life has no real meaning and what we do also means nothing - to be able to set our own purpose for how we are going to live. We already do that all time. And telling us something like that Is dangerous because we humans can be pretty evil at times lol ... 

And yet the lack of meaning and a defined purpose can be pure freedom. The freedom to choose and be fully responsible for those choices. 

[+Sherapy]

30 minutes ago, ReadTheGreatControversyEGW said:

We do not need him to tell us some craziness like - life has no real meaning and what we do also means nothing - to be able to set our own purpose for how we are going to live. We already do that all time. And telling us something like that Is dangerous because we humans can be pretty evil at times lol ... 

Read, it isn’t unusual for an armchair philosopher to misunderstand Nietzsche. The craziness is your interpretation. 

Nietzsche argued that there is no inherent higher purpose to life. According to him, our actions, suffering, desires, and emotions have no universal or objective meaning. However, Nietzsche believed that individuals have the ability to create their own purposes and meaning in life.

Nietzsche termed those who embrace this perspective and set their own purpose as "Ubermensch," or "superman." The Ubermensch is someone who recognizes the absence of inherent meanings, embraces their personal autonomy, and shapes their own values and goals.

In the context of Adolf Hitler and Nazi Germany, it is important to note that Hitler distorted Nietzsche's ideas to suit his own ideology. Hitler drew upon the concept of the Ubermensch to propagate his idea of the Aryan race's superiority. He claimed that the German people, as the Ubermensch, should assert their dominance over others.

It is important to understand that Nietzsche himself did not promote or endorse the discriminatory and hateful ideology propagated by Hitler. Nietzsche's philosophy was open to individual interpretations, and Hitler's misappropriation of his ideas served his own political agenda.

Read once again, it's crucial to critically analyze and separate the original philosophy from how it was distorted and misused in historical contexts like Nazi Germany.

 

 

Edited September 22, 2023 by Sherapy

[XenoFish]

3 hours ago, ReadTheGreatControversyEGW said:

what we do also means nothing - to be able to set our own purpose for how we are going to live

So what is your alternative? Are we free to define our own lives or are we to live by the dictates of others?

[+Sherapy]

2 hours ago, XenoFish said:

So what is your alternative? Are we free to define our own lives or are we to live by the dictates of others?

My two cents: 

The concept of "what we do also means nothing" doesn't imply to me that my actions and choices  lack meaning or significance, instead it gives me the freedom and autonomy to determine my own purpose in life.  I recently left behind a job that was fulfilling but not what I think of as sustainable long term. I came to a new place due to my experiences and challenges and decided I could have both fulfilling and sustainable. I found a new job in 2 hours, it is exactly what I want. 

For me this perspective, has  empowered me to shape my life according to my values, goals, and desires. Instead of feeling burdened by external expectations or societal norms, or limited by them.or defined by them,  I have the ability to create my own path and find meaning through the choices I make. 

Ultimately, the idea is that my actions carry the weight and importance that I assign to them. In embracing this notion this changes my purpose to being self-determined the objective for me is to live authentically and pursue a fulfilling existence based on my own individual aspirations and beliefs. Works for me and at the end of the day that is what matters.

Edited September 22, 2023 by Sherapy

[XenoFish]

33 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

Ultimately, the idea is that my actions carry the weight and importance that I assign to them. In embracing this notion this changes my purpose to being self-determined the objective for me is to live authentically and pursue a fulfilling existence based on my own individual aspirations and beliefs. Works for me and at the end of the day that is what matters.

What is meaningful to you is what you give meaning too. 

That's the interest thing, each one of use either defines our own lives or let's other define it for us.

[+Liquid Gardens]

17 hours ago, ReadTheGreatControversyEGW said:

What he provided was a belief system that left no fundamental basis for good and evil, right and wrong.

And all evidence, or its lack, seems to show that he was correct about that.  The key word is 'fundamental' though - just because there is no 'fundamental' basis for right and wrong does not mean there is no basis at all.

[+Sherapy]

1 hour ago, XenoFish said:

What is meaningful to you is what you give meaning too. 

That's the interest thing, each one of use either defines our own lives or let's other define it for us.

Exactly. 

Edited September 22, 2023 by Sherapy