Nihilisn, Nationalism & Nazism

[+Sherapy]

1 hour ago, ReadTheGreatControversyEGW said:

Throwing out all because 'people said it' is wise? Is it not better to review what people say to see if it is true and wise? The notion that there is no good and no evil strikes directly at the root of all morality, destabilizing any code of good conduct, virtue or integrity, virtually saying, 'there is no right or wrong.' In other words, 'do what thou wilt shalt be the whole of the law.' 

Read, 

It is important to note that the absence of an objective or universal moral framework does not mean that there are no principles or values upon which one can base their conduct, virtue, or integrity. Many ethical theories propose alternative approaches to morality that do not rely on the existence of absolute good or evil.

For example, some ethical systems emphasize the importance of promoting human well-being, respect for autonomy, or the cultivation of virtues. These approaches provide a basis for making ethical decisions that takes into account the well-being and interests of individuals and communities.

It is also worth mentioning that societal norms and legal systems often establish rules and standards that define acceptable and unacceptable behavior. These norms help guide individuals and shape their moral conduct within a given society.

While the absence of absolute good or evil can spark philosophical debates, it does not imply moral nihilism or an absence of ethical guidance. Many individuals and societies have developed ethical frameworks and codes of conduct that promote cooperation, empathy, and the well-being of oneself and others.

 

 

Edited September 30, 2023 by Sherapy

[ReadTheGreatControversyEGW]

4 hours ago, XenoFish said:

6 hours ago, ReadTheGreatControversyEGW said:

You support their purpose or ideologies as being 'a direction'? It was criminal. Unethical. Unless we treat each other as equals, despite ethnicity, social status or even religious views, terrible evils will result in society. We forget this and another genocide will be on the way. I think these are the philosophies of the self-styled 'elitists' planning world population reduction in their new world order mess. 

Do Not Put Words In My Mouth!

You can't deny that you said this. 

Quote

They had purpose, a terrible one at that, but a direction none the less. It just got too big. 

[XenoFish]

3 hours ago, ReadTheGreatControversyEGW said:

You can't deny that you said this. 

You suggested that I supported it, which is a damn lie. Which means you're a liar and a religious one at that. 

[+Sherapy]

11 hours ago, ReadTheGreatControversyEGW said:

You can't deny that you said this. 

Read, there are various expressions of religion, some of which are truly inspiring while others may not be as appealing. It is crucial to actively listen to how individuals apply their religious beliefs in their lives. It's equally important to note that not everyone who subscribes to a nihilistic worldview supports harm or engages in heinous acts towards others as a result, least of all Xeno. 

By applying the above, we can gain a better understanding of people's intentions and values, regardless of their religious or philosophical beliefs. This open-minded approach allows us to foster empathy, promote understanding, and bridge gaps between individuals with different perspectives.

As we navigate conversations about religion or nihilism, it's essential to remember that not all expressions of belief are the same, and we should not hastily assume that someone's worldview automatically translates into negative actions. 

It is best, at this point, to stand corrected and move on. 

Edited October 1, 2023 by Sherapy

[+Sherapy]

7 hours ago, XenoFish said:

You suggested that I supported it, which is a damn lie. Which means you're a liar and a religious one at that. 

No one that knows you would conclude that you support genocide for any reason. The comment is clearly intended to flame bait you due to the posters own issues of unhealed anger and hostility or it’s his style of fire and brimstone preaching. IMHO

[Antigonos]

11 hours ago, ReadTheGreatControversyEGW said:

You can't deny that you said this. 

What can’t be denied at this point is that you haven’t read any Nietzsche for yourself.

You constantly argue from ignorance… about everything. Like a child.

[XenoFish]

16 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

No one that knows you would conclude that you support genocide for any reason. The comment is clearly intended to flame bait you due to the posters own issues of unhealed anger and hostility or it’s his style of fire and brimstone preaching. IMHO

When you know nothing matters and society is held together by illusions, sometimes even delusions. Then you ask yourself why take any of it too serious. 

An angry nihilist is one who has just broken their illusions and struggles for meaning.

The depressed nihilist knows that no matter the meaning it'll just be an illusion. And it's a point of frustration.

A nihilist who has survived both places either creates a meaning to suits them while accepting to synthetic nature of it, or the just embrace life for what it is. 

I just find it to be freeing. Not having to lock myself into something. 

 

[+Sherapy]

6 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

When you know nothing matters and society is held together by illusions, sometimes even delusions. Then you ask yourself why take any of it too serious. 

An angry nihilist is one who has just broken their illusions and struggles for meaning.

The depressed nihilist knows that no matter the meaning it'll just be an illusion. And it's a point of frustration.

A nihilist who has survived both places either creates a meaning to suits them while accepting to synthetic nature of it, or the just embrace life for what it is. 

I just find it to be freeing. Not having to lock myself into something. 

 

 

Overall, you have explored/lived different emotional responses and attitudes towards nihilism. It sounds like the wisdom you are offering is that one can either struggle with the absence of meaning, become disillusioned and frustrated by it, or find personal liberation and autonomy by either creating one's own meaning or accepting existential uncertainty.

Well said. 
 

[+Hammerclaw]

Don't make a death cult out of life. 

[+Sherapy]

22 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

Don't make a death cult out of life. 

An add to:

At their extreme, religions can sometimes develop into what can be perceived as death cults too. This refers to groups or sects that place a significant emphasis on death, often in relation to the afterlife or some form of transcendence. Comments such as, “I only want a connection to god” otherwise life has no meaning. In these cases, death is viewed as a means to achieve spiritual liberation, salvation, or some delusion for a higher state of existence.

In such extreme manifestations, the focus on death becomes so pronounced that it frames and permeates the entire belief system and shapes the motivations, actions, and rituals of the adherents. 

Extremist religious groups that develop into death cults discount the value of earthly life and prioritize the afterlife or a future transcendent state as the ultimate goal. This can lead to the devaluation of present life and a willingness to engage in extreme practices in the pursuit of this perceived higher purpose.

Death cults often isolate themselves from mainstream society and maintain strict and exclusive belief systems. This isolation can foster an environment where extremist ideologies can thrive, as members may become increasingly susceptible to manipulative tactics and coercive control.

Cult leaders in such groups may exert significant influence and control over their followers, often employing charismatic tactics to maintain loyalty and devotion. Manipulation techniques, including psychological, emotional, and even physical/verbal abuse, may be used to enforce group cohesion, obedience, and “unquestioning” commitment.

This particular poster and another one is starting a lot of threads that project onto Xeno a lot of these themes. IMHO

Edited October 1, 2023 by Sherapy

[+Hammerclaw]

1 hour ago, Sherapy said:

An add to:

At their extreme, religions can sometimes develop into what can be perceived as death cults too. This refers to groups or sects that place a significant emphasis on death, often in relation to the afterlife or some form of transcendence. Comments such as, “I only want a connection to god” otherwise life has no meaning. In these cases, death is viewed as a means to achieve spiritual liberation, salvation, or some delusion for a higher state of existence.

In such extreme manifestations, the focus on death becomes so pronounced that it frames and permeates the entire belief system and shapes the motivations, actions, and rituals of the adherents. 

Extremist religious groups that develop into death cults discount the value of earthly life and prioritize the afterlife or a future transcendent state as the ultimate goal. This can lead to the devaluation of present life and a willingness to engage in extreme practices in the pursuit of this perceived higher purpose.

Death cults often isolate themselves from mainstream society and maintain strict and exclusive belief systems. This isolation can foster an environment where extremist ideologies can thrive, as members may become increasingly susceptible to manipulative tactics and coercive control.

Cult leaders in such groups may exert significant influence and control over their followers, often employing charismatic tactics to maintain loyalty and devotion. Manipulation techniques, including psychological, emotional, and even physical/verbal abuse, may be used to enforce group cohesion, obedience, and “unquestioning” commitment.

This particular poster and another one is starting a lot of threads that project onto Xeno a lot of these themes. IMHO

I see Xeno as a realist who loves life, troubled by existential questions common to a lot of us. What, if anything, happens after death will take care of itself, as it is the destination common to us all. The only purpose life has is to live it to the full; to squeeze every drop of pleasure out of it and endure its pains, its adversities and its sorrows as best one can. We are all children of Earth, molded by divine providence through evolution from its living clay. We are not separate and distinct from it, but every bit a part of the skein of life as any other creature that creeps, swims and flies upon the face of the Earth.

[+Sherapy]

1 minute ago, Hammerclaw said:

I see Xeno as a realist who loves life, troubled by existential questions common to a lot of us. What, if anything, happens after death will take care of itself, as it is the destination common to us all. The only purpose life has is to live it to the full; to squeeze every drop of pleasure out of it and endure its pains, its adversities and its sorrows as best one can. We are all children of Earth, molded by divine providence through evolution from its living clay. We are not separate and distinct from it, but every bit a part of the skein of life as any other creature that creeps, swims and flies upon the face of the Earth.

[+joc]

On 9/30/2023 at 2:58 PM, Hammerclaw said:

Sounds like Vice Grip Garage.

That's because it is...I changed my spark plugs and wires about a year ago.  Being really extra careful...I disconnected the battery.  But when I was putting the battery cables back on, one of the connectors snapped in half.  No problem...I actually did take a pair of vice grips and it stayed on there holding that battery cable in place for at least a couple or three months.   Maaco wanted $5785 to paint my truck.  I think I can do a decent job for less than a grand.

[+joc]

9 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

I see Xeno as a realist who loves life, troubled by existential questions common to a lot of us. What, if anything, happens after death will take care of itself, as it is the destination common to us all. The only purpose life has is to live it to the full; to squeeze every drop of pleasure out of it and endure its pains, its adversities and its sorrows as best one can. We are all children of Earth, molded by divine providence through evolution from its living clay. We are not separate and distinct from it, but every bit a part of the skein of life as any other creature that creeps, swims and flies upon the face of the Earth.

Thanks I just learned a new word...Skein!

[Guyver]

On 9/30/2023 at 2:50 PM, ReadTheGreatControversyEGW said:

Nihilism at the heart. Values are meaningless. So you don't have to care about human lives. Nothing matters. Morality and compassion - meaningless. This is nihilism.

'The doctrine that nothing actually exists or that existence or values are meaningless.
Relentless negativity or cynicism suggesting an absence of values or beliefs.
Political belief or action that advocates or commits violence or terrorism without discernible constructive goals.'

Your God of the Bible has terrible values.  The Old Testament God is supposed to be the same as the New, you know, Jesus’ father….and that God of Abraham is mean and likes to kill people.  

Edited October 2, 2023 by Guyver

[+Hammerclaw]

2 hours ago, joc said:

That's because it is...I changed my spark plugs and wires about a year ago.  Being really extra careful...I disconnected the battery.  But when I was putting the battery cables back on, one of the connectors snapped in half.  No problem...I actually did take a pair of vice grips and it stayed on there holding that battery cable in place for at least a couple or three months.   Maaco wanted $5785 to paint my truck.  I think I can do a decent job for less than a grand.

[Guyver]

9 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

Talk about vice grip garage, this guys a master.

[+joc]

14 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

Thanks ...never heard of him before but he's kind of awesome!

[+joc]

4 hours ago, Guyver said:

Talk about vice grip garage, this guys a master.

Speaking of nazis, nihillism and such...I bought my paint and primer and ordered a spray gun from amazon...it'll be here tomorrow.

[+joc]

15 hours ago, Guyver said:

The Old Testament God is supposed to be the same as the New, you know, Jesus’ father….and that God of Abraham is mean and likes to kill people.

But, and...in defense of the OT God.  He isn't really killing nice people...he is killing really bad people.  And he's thorough.  No, don't just kill them...you annihilate them!  Kill the old ones, the young ones...the in-between ones.  All of them!  But the reason is because hey, they were teaching their children to become the same treacherous humans they were.  So...kill all of them.  Nothing wrong with being thorough.

But the people themselves!  Cain for instance...of course despicable, murdered his brother in a jealous rage...but more to the point Abraham himself...the guy was bonzo nutcase!  "Hey Abe honey, where you off to with Isaac, supper is almost ready."  "We are...uh...just gonna run down the road a bit to the altar and I'm gonna sacrifice Isaac to God."  "What??...why..."      "Because that's what God told me to do, so..uh..yeah don't set but two plates tonight.  Be back in a bit."  

[Ajay0]

On 9/30/2023 at 5:45 PM, XenoFish said:

Yet again the rules are man-made. The idea of winning at the game is a dog chasing its tail.  Playing and achieving personal goals makes a good player. Just because your goals and wishes are not equal to another person's doesn't make them less of a player. Because they are trying to do some-thing. Again you're assuming that people have to follow a well worn path in life. 

 

 All rules are not man-made. The law of gravity is not man-made and is a truth independent of your likes and dislikes. If you fall hard from a tree or mountain, you will fall hard, whether you like it or not.

I am not talking about following one's wishes but following the truth and all that it implies. 

Enlightenment is similarly considered as a truth in ancient eastern philosophy and culture, and virtuous conduct is considered as a potent way to attain it.

Wholesome virtuous behavior progressively leads to the foremost.~ Buddha AN 10.1

 Western philosophers were not aware of enlightenment in general and consequently came up with philosophies like nihilism to denigrate and disparage values and virtuous conduct. The nazis and other like-minded ideologues and criminals utilized the same ideas to drive their own diabolical agenda with a reasoning and narrative to present it as coherent and euphemistic.
 

[jmccr8]

13 minutes ago, Ajay0 said:

 All rules are not man-made. The law of gravity is not man-made and is a truth independent of your likes and dislikes. If you fall hard from a tree or mountain, you will fall hard, whether you like it or not.

I am not talking about following one's wishes but following the truth and all that it implies. 

Enlightenment is similarly considered as a truth in ancient eastern philosophy and culture, and virtuous conduct is considered as a potent way to attain it.

Wholesome virtuous behavior progressively leads to the foremost.~ Buddha AN 10.1

 Western philosophers were not aware of enlightenment in general and consequently came up with philosophies like nihilism to denigrate and disparage values and virtuous conduct. The nazis and other like-minded ideologues and criminals utilized the same ideas to drive their own diabolical agenda with a reasoning and narrative to present it as coherent and euphemistic.
 

Hi Ajay

Just bevause a person is a nihilist does not mean that they do not treat people well, lives according to law or gives charity. It just doesn't have meaning for them or make them a bad person.

I have asked openly as well as directly what is the relationship with nihilism and nazism? Seems to me the purpose of nazism is about faith and belief in their system, they were interested in Christian mysticism and artifacts.

A nihilist wouldn't give a sh!t about it and that it is futile with no point. So what is the relationship do you and Read see with them and what point are you trying to make.

[Ajay0]

26 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Ajay

Just bevause a person is a nihilist does not mean that they do not treat people well, lives according to law or gives charity. It just doesn't have meaning for them or make them a bad person.

Such a person without any conviction would be treating people well, living according to law and gives charity out of mere habit or fear of police or public censure. There would be no inner conviction in him, and given an ideal situation without such inhibitions, would be disposed to engage in his likes and dislikes even if they are vicious, utilizing nihilist reasoning as a source of conviction.

 

Quote

 

I have asked openly as well as directly what is the relationship with nihilism and nazism?

I have already  quoted  Jewish holocaust survivor and philosopher and psychiatrist Viktor Frankl in this regard. I will place it over here for you as well.

“If we present a man with a concept of man which is not true, we may well corrupt him. When we present man as an automaton of reflexes, as a mind-machine, as a bundle of instincts, as a pawn of drives and reactions, as a mere product of instinct, heredity and environment, we feed the nihilism to which modern man is, in any case, prone.

I became acquainted with the last stage of that corruption in my second concentration camp, Auschwitz. 

The gas chambers of Auschwitz were the ultimate consequence of the theory that man is nothing but the product of heredity and environment; or as the Nazi liked to say, ‘of Blood and Soil.’

I am absolutely convinced that the gas chambers of Auschwitz, Treblinka, and Maidanek were ultimately prepared not in some Ministry or other in Berlin, but rather at the desks and lecture halls of nihilistic scientists and philosophers.”- Viktor Frankl

 

Quote

 

Seems to me the purpose of nazism is about faith and belief in their system, they were interested in Christian mysticism and artifacts.

They were interested in the occult and whatever information Christian mysticism and other religious traditions could offer in this regard. 

 

Quote

 

A nihilist wouldn't give a sh!t about it and that it is futile with no point. So what is the relationship do you and Read see with them and what point are you trying to make.

The nazis used nihilism to disparage values like non-violence, compassion, kindness, humanism and universality as it stood in the way of implementation of their ideological objectives of genocide and subjugation of other nations.

The occult was a subject they studied as well with respect to its applications so as to achieve their objectives.

Edited October 3, 2023 by Ajay0

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

On 10/2/2023 at 2:06 AM, Hammerclaw said:

Don't make a death cult out of life. 

Why make a death cult when we have so many *cough*thecatholicchurch*cough* already?

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

2 hours ago, Ajay0 said:

Such a person without any conviction would be treating people well, living according to law and gives charity out of mere habit or fear of police or public censure. .

As opposed to those valiant upstanding Christians who do so out of fear of Divine Judgement?