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Nihilisn, Nationalism & Nazism


ReadTheGreatControversyEGW

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2 hours ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

As opposed to those valiant upstanding Christians who do so out of fear of Divine Judgement?

It is mainly due to fear of the Divine police and judges and hell-fire, as well as earning spiritual merit that fundamentalist christians and muslims adhere to virtuous conduct to a large extent. 

In sufism however, enlightenment ( fana) and total love was the focus of the practicing sufis.

Rabia , an Arab female practicing sufi of the eighth century A.D had stated in this regard...

Quote

"O God! If I worship You for fear of Hell, burn me in Hell, and if I worship You in hope of Paradise, exclude me from Paradise. But if I worship You for Your Own sake, grudge me not Your everlasting Beauty".

 

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On 9/29/2023 at 6:51 PM, XenoFish said:

I consider the goal of buddhism to be nihilistic in nature. By letting go of all attachments there is no belief, no faith, nothing. It is nihilism. 

 The goal of Buddhism is the cessation of psychological suffering (dukha). Enlightenment or Buddhahood just happen to be an another name for it.

Realizing the nature of impermanence, we decide not to be overly attached to any person or object or event, so as to prevent unnecessary suffering during the moment of parting.

 Considering that there are people who have died of psychological shock due to external losses, the philosophy of impermanence and non-attachment is obviously a wise thing to consider and practice, and is not nihilistic. It enables a person to live intelligently and efficiently in the world without being inordinately attached to it.

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22 minutes ago, Ajay0 said:

 The goal of Buddhism is the cessation of psychological suffering (dukha). Enlightenment or Buddhahood just happen to be an another name for it.

Realizing the nature of impermanence, we decide not to be overly attached to any person or object or event, so as to prevent unnecessary suffering during the moment of parting.

 Considering that there are people who have died of psychological shock due to external losses, the philosophy of impermanence and non-attachment is obviously a wise thing to consider and practice, and is not nihilistic. It enables a person to live intelligently and efficiently in the world without being inordinately attached to it.

So nihilism in a pretty package. 

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5 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

So nihilism in a pretty package. 

Time to give up your nihilist glasses. 

Non-attachment is considered to be a virtue in many religions such as Hinduism, Buddhism and Sikhism. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonattachment_(philosophy)#:~:text=Nonattachment%2C non-attachment%2C or,thus attains a heightened perspective.

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7 minutes ago, Ajay0 said:

Time to give up your nihilist glasses. 

Non-attachment is considered to be a virtue in many religions such as Hinduism, Buddhism and Sikhism. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonattachment_(philosophy)#:~:text=Nonattachment%2C non-attachment%2C or,thus attains a heightened perspective.

What's so different? When you've hit a point where nothing matters, you're not attached to anything. You see the illusions. 

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3 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

What's so different? When you've hit a point where nothing matters, you're not attached to anything. You see the illusions. 

Not really. There is attachment to Dharma and the Self or Buddha nature within, with the goal of enlightenment.

For the nihilist, nothing matters, even the defense of nihilism as it is just an illusion and an abstract notion.

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3 minutes ago, Ajay0 said:

Not really. There is attachment to Dharma and the Self or Buddha nature within, with the goal of enlightenment.

For the nihilist, nothing matters, even the defense of nihilism as it is just an illusion and an abstract notion.

The idea of dharma, enlightenment, buddhahood are illusions as well. So total negation of all attachments are impossible for the Buddhist. 

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2 hours ago, Ajay0 said:

 The goal of Buddhism is the cessation of psychological suffering (dukha). Enlightenment or Buddhahood just happen to be an another name for it.

Realizing the nature of impermanence, we decide not to be overly attached to any person or object or event, so as to prevent unnecessary suffering during the moment of parting.

 Considering that there are people who have died of psychological shock due to external losses, the philosophy of impermanence and non-attachment is obviously a wise thing to consider and practice, and is not nihilistic. It enables a person to live intelligently and efficiently in the world without being inordinately attached to it.

 

In Buddhism, It teaches that all things, including people, objects, and events, are subject to constant change. By recognizing and accepting this impermanence, individuals are encouraged to cultivate non-attachment and reduce unnecessary suffering.

Non-attachment, or non-clinging, simply suggests a balanced approach to life, where one learns to appreciate and engage with the present moment without becoming overly attached or consumed by it. By cultivating non-attachment, individuals can reduce the tendency for suffering arising from possessiveness, desire, and fear of loss etc.

This practice can lead to greater clarity, equanimity, and freedom from making things worse (suffering). By understanding the transient nature of things, one can develop compassion and cultivate a sense of interconnectedness with others, promoting a more harmonious and compassionate approach to life.

 

 

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2 hours ago, XenoFish said:

The idea of dharma, enlightenment, buddhahood are illusions as well. So total negation of all attachments are impossible for the Buddhist. 

 

 

Yep, in Zen Buddhism, there is a strong emphasis on recognizing the illusory nature of reality. Zen teachings often emphasize the idea that our ordinary, conceptual understanding of reality is incomplete and ultimately illusory. The aim of Zen practice is to move beyond conceptual thinking and directly experience reality as it is, without the influence of our conditioned thoughts, attachments, and illusions.

Zen encourages practitioners to engage in practices such as meditation, koan introspection, and mindfulness to cultivate a direct and non-conceptual awareness of the present moment. Through these practices, individuals are encouraged to let go of attachments to fixed views, concepts, and illusions, and to directly experience the nature of reality.

In Zen, there is a recognition that our ordinary way of perceiving reality is often clouded by conceptual thinking and the illusions created by our thoughts and interpretations. By cutting through these illusions, practitioners aim to awaken to a more direct and immediate experience of reality.

It is important to note that the emphasis on the illusory nature of reality in Zen does not negate the value or significance of everyday experience. Instead, it invites those interested to investigate and question the assumptions and illusions that often shape their understanding of reality. Ultimately, the aim is to develop a more direct and unmediated relationship with the world as it is, beyond our conceptual filters.


 

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10 hours ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

Why make a death cult when we have so many *cough*thecatholicchurch*cough* already?

A death cult, by my definition, is when you wish or expect the worst for everyone else but those in your little cult. 

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  I don’t really understand where  non attachment  leads, when it comes to love of , & compassion for, each other…family love..and love of  our  children.   People shouldn’t love each other TOO much…because it can lead to suffering?   I don’t really get that.    
     I do notice many , most, or even all,  people tend to see what they want to see, or expect to see.  ?     I’m all for, as Sherapy was talking about ^ … “a more direct and immediate experience of reality.”   & developing  “a more direct and unmediated relationship with the world as it is, beyond our conceptual filters.”       So illusion is more in us, than in the nature of reality?     I think I do get that!   maybe.     …actually, I do seem to be mostly unaffected by a lot of things that people seem to get bent about :P  …or put importance in…especially over assessments of self importance  .
       @Sherapy, I’ve been wanting to ask you if your new job took you to,,,or away from, the Castle overlooking the ocean?  Hope it’s all good anyway :)

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@Sherapy It's a lot like the idea of ego destruction. By focusing on destroying the ego, you maintain the ego because you're focused on destroying it..... never made much sense to me. Same thing with attachments, by trying to be detached from the world around you, you're still attached to the idea of being detached. Like a never ending circle....

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13 minutes ago, lightly said:

  I don’t really understand where  non attachment  leads, when it comes to love of , & compassion for, each other…family love..and love of  our  children.   People shouldn’t love each other TOO much…because it can lead to suffering?   I don’t really get that.    
     I do notice many , most, or even all,  people tend to see what they want to see, or expect to see.  ?     I’m all for, as Sherapy was talking about ^ … “a more direct and immediate experience of reality.”   & developing  “a more direct and unmediated relationship with the world as it is, beyond our conceptual filters.”       So illusion is more in us, than in the nature of reality?     I think I do get that!   maybe.     …actually, I do seem to be mostly unaffected by a lot of things that people seem to get bent about :P  …or put importance in.
       @Sherapy, I’ve been wanting to ask you if your new job took you to,,,or away from, the Castle overlooking the ocean?  Hope it’s all good anyway :)

Yes, I left behind the Castle, but my new gig is on the ocean too. Now, I am on the esplanade in Redondo Beach and it is incredible in a more interactive way if that makes sense. I will take pics tomorrow and post them. 

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17 hours ago, XenoFish said:

The idea of dharma, enlightenment, buddhahood are illusions as well. So total negation of all attachments are impossible for the Buddhist. 


Buddha has never said that the potential for enlightenment in every human being is an illusion or falsehood. If that is the case, he would never have engaged in the pursuit of the trivial and superficial.

You are just habitually echoing the nihilist viewpoint to everything and considering them all as mental abstractions without relevance to reality.

Nihilism stems from western philosophy and it should be understood that western philosophy has never produced a Buddha. The fact is that western philosophy does not have the timeline of ancient eastern philosophy which is  time-tested, and consequently lacks in maturity and wisdom.

This can result in an erroneous thought process and decision-making mechanism that can be fatal in the long run due to the inherent weakness and superficiality in falsehood.

 If the compass or chart is faulty, there is no guarantee that the ship can reach the harbor safely and accurately steer away from the rocks and reefs.

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4 hours ago, Ajay0 said:


Buddha has never said that the potential for enlightenment in every human being is an illusion or falsehood. If that is the case, he would never have engaged in the pursuit of the trivial and superficial.

You are just habitually echoing the nihilist viewpoint to everything and considering them all as mental abstractions without relevance to reality.

Nihilism stems from western philosophy and it should be understood that western philosophy has never produced a Buddha. The fact is that western philosophy does not have the timeline of ancient eastern philosophy which is  time-tested, and consequently lacks in maturity and wisdom.

This can result in an erroneous thought process and decision-making mechanism that can be fatal in the long run due to the inherent weakness and superficiality in falsehood.

 If the compass or chart is faulty, there is no guarantee that the ship can reach the harbor safely and accurately steer away from the rocks and reefs.

Maybe Buddha wasn't Buddha. And like all such ideology it's based on opinion. I also think you over exaggerate the value of eastern philosophy. 

An opinion, especially in the spirituality and philosophy sense can shape our perception of reality and the actions we take therein, however it doesn't exist outside of us. If chanting 'ooh, booh, doo, hoo" three hundred and thirty five times a day for 335 day can lead to total enlightenment, people would do it. All because they believe such a nonsensical statement had power. 

I'll repeat, total negation is not possible. Even nihilism itself is unsustainable. Eat, sleep, drink before enlightenment, eat, sleep, drink, after. 

If we go by what constitute 'enlightenment' then even I have achieved that. 

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34 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

If we go by what constitute 'enlightenment' then even I have achieved that. 

"enlightenment" as it is currently being interpreted in the thread, yes... 

~

 

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7 minutes ago, SHaYap said:

"enlightenment" as it is currently being interpreted in the thread, yes... 

~

 

I still think the concept is just a gimmick.

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18 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

I still think the concept is just a gimmick.

As it is currently presented, yes... 

There is a great fundamental difference between this new age pseudo religious / spirituality practices are the monastic actualisation of the discipline. 

Though that is also not to say that "all" monasteries are equal in regards of the "true" way... 

~

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3 minutes ago, SHaYap said:

As it is currently presented, yes... 

There is a great fundamental difference between this new age pseudo religious / spirituality practices are the monastic actualisation of the discipline. 

Though that is also not to say that "all" monasteries are equal in regards of the "true" way... 

~

Could you expand on the true enlightenment?

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1 hour ago, XenoFish said:

Maybe Buddha wasn't Buddha. And like all such ideology it's based on opinion. I also think you over exaggerate the value of eastern philosophy. 

Buddhism is more of a philosophy than an ideology .  I have already stated that eastern philosophy having a more ancient timeline is more seasoned and time-tested and perhaps a better tool or discipline to inform one's judgement.

Quote

I'll repeat, total negation is not possible. Even nihilism itself is unsustainable.

But then you would not be true to your nihilist beliefs even though you keep defending it.

Quote

Eat, sleep, drink before enlightenment, eat, sleep, drink, after.

 If we go by what constitute 'enlightenment' then even I have achieved that. 

 

Even if you have a concept of enlightenment which may or may not be true, it is still an abstraction as per nihilism. So why cling to illusions then !

Also without anything to cling upon to, what do you set yourself upon other than say, mere habit ! Shouldn't it be renounced as well as a mere illusion !

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6 hours ago, Ajay0 said:

Nihilism stems from western philosophy and it should be understood that western philosophy has never produced a Buddha. The fact is that western philosophy does not have the timeline of ancient eastern philosophy which is  time-tested, and consequently lacks in maturity and wisdom.

Heraclitus and Gautama must have been rough contemporaries (ca. 500 BCE, although some would place Gautama's life dates more like centered around 400). There are interpretations of each that are not so far apart, suggesting that they both participated in an "Indo-European" culture where the twain very much did meet.

What I get from the quoted paragraph is condescension and snobbery - and of course preaching. It certainly doesn't sound "enlightened," or if that is enlightenment, then you can keep it.

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22 hours ago, Sherapy said:

 

In Buddhism, It teaches that all things, including people, objects, and events, are subject to constant change. By recognizing and accepting this impermanence, individuals are encouraged to cultivate non-attachment and reduce unnecessary suffering.

Non-attachment, or non-clinging, simply suggests a balanced approach to life, where one learns to appreciate and engage with the present moment without becoming overly attached or consumed by it. By cultivating non-attachment, individuals can reduce the tendency for suffering arising from possessiveness, desire, and fear of loss etc.

This practice can lead to greater clarity, equanimity, and freedom from making things worse (suffering). By understanding the transient nature of things, one can develop compassion and cultivate a sense of interconnectedness with others, promoting a more harmonious and compassionate approach to life.

 

 

Like my being able to acknowledge my farm was looted and destroyed without getting too upset, move on a build something new knowing it isn't permanent either. 

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1 minute ago, eight bits said:

What I get from the quoted paragraph is condescension and snobbery - and of course preaching. It certainly doesn't sound "enlightened," or if that is enlightenment, then you can keep it.

But you do realize that the two world wars and holocaust originated in europe, and probably  the third and final one as well. 

Holocaust survivor and philosopher Viktor Frankl had credited nihilist beliefs with the brutality of the wars and holocaust. 

I am only stating here emphatically that western philosophy and nihilism may be wrong in their conclusions,and it is important to investigate all philosophical perspectives in this regard, not just western.

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6 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Could you expand on the true enlightenment?

I'm no expert, or qualified. To my understanding, that question is by and of itself, nonsense because it implies "false" enlightenment exists, or that there is more to what is "enlightenment"

If anything or anyone skirts and avoids the principle of "karma" in the teaching ... You can with good confidence assure them that they know not what they are making noises about. 

Karma is at the core and central of all things Buddha ... this is the foundation of "awakening" 

Karma just is, there is no bad or good karma and karma is not about what is desired or undesired karma... This is the foundation of "enlightenment"

~

 

 

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On 10/3/2023 at 1:20 AM, Ajay0 said:


 All rules are not man-made. The law of gravity is not man-made and is a truth independent of your likes and dislikes. If you fall hard from a tree or mountain, you will fall hard, whether you like it or not.

I am not talking about following one's wishes but following the truth and all that it implies. 

Enlightenment is similarly considered as a truth in ancient eastern philosophy and culture, and virtuous conduct is considered as a potent way to attain it.

Wholesome virtuous behavior progressively leads to the foremost.~ Buddha AN 10.1

 Western philosophers were not aware of enlightenment in general and consequently came up with philosophies like nihilism to denigrate and disparage values and virtuous conduct. The nazis and other like-minded ideologues and criminals utilized the same ideas to drive their own diabolical agenda with a reasoning and narrative to present it as coherent and euphemistic.
 

Buddhism was born out of Indo-European thought as was Nazism. Buddhism expanded and flourished because of the Greeks who Ashoka's missionaries converted. Ashoka's words were later added to the Gospels to give Jesus, the doomsday prophet some deeper meaning. 

The concept of East-West philosophy is outdated and what set the West back was Catholic Christianity. 

 

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