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Nihilisn, Nationalism & Nazism


ReadTheGreatControversyEGW

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7 hours ago, Sojo said:

The problem is, if there is an original source intelligence that has complete and total understanding of all that has transpired and will continue to transpire throughout the universe, how would one know whether a source of information is that very one that we can rely on to lead or guide us (that is even if they were so inclined to do so) into all truth.

There are many sources of information that will seek to lead and guide one into what they call "truth," masquerading as the original source intelligence. Many voices speaking in the world, this or that is the "truth," saying, "Stolen waters are sweet, and bread eaten in secret is pleasant." So it has been and so it will be to the end of time. 

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12 minutes ago, ReadTheGreatControversyEGW said:

There are many sources of information that will seek to lead and guide one into what they call "truth," masquerading as the original source intelligence. Many voices speaking in the world, this or that is the "truth," saying, "Stolen waters are sweet, and bread eaten in secret is pleasant." So it has been and so it will be to the end of time. 

This also applies to your belief system as well. So nothing new under the sun.

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7 hours ago, spartan max2 said:

Nietzsche thing was that once we accept that life it ultimately meaningless

That's the thing though. Life is definitely not meaningless. This is one reason why I reject supposed "scientific theory" that calls foolish everything that cannot be seen or tested or observed in a lab. Science is in no position to make that determination. It is not all knowing, and never will be.  Some don't believe there is more to life than meets the eye and that's ok. In the event that there is more, as per the witness of many millions, that would be a a risk not worth taking.   

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7 hours ago, spartan max2 said:

If you woke up tommorow and no longer believed in God. What would you do?

That won't happen. I'm pass that point. Everywhere I look I see clearly that there is something going on. Even if I hadn't had any encounter with God, this is pretty obvious from many different angles, Christian and non-Christian. So basically, I know there is more to life than meets the eye, even without the Bible in the picture. This includes my many encounters with the supernatural. 

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8 minutes ago, ReadTheGreatControversyEGW said:

That won't happen. I'm pass that point. Everywhere I look I see clearly that there is something going on. Even if I hadn't had any encounter with God, this is pretty obvious from many different angles, Christian and non-Christian. So basically, I know there is more to life than meets the eye, even without the Bible in the picture. This includes my many encounters with the supernatural. 

Are you unable to imagine the theoretical though? That's all I'm asking. I know you're a strong believer.

You wake up tomorrow and no longer believe in God. What do you do?

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7 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

Are you unable to imagine the theoretical though? That's all I'm asking. I know you're a strong believer.

You wake up tomorrow and no longer believe in God. What do you do?

I don't think that thought experiment is even possible for Read. It also doesn't seem like any other view or perspective is wanted either. At least it appears that way.

Edited by XenoFish
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5 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

Are you unable to imagine the theoretical though? That's all I'm asking. I know you're a strong believer.

You wake up tomorrow and no longer believe in God. What do you do?

Ok, I'm trying lol. If there is no God, no superintellect behind the world. Then the world doesn't make sense. It's just simply impossible. But let me think, if there were only humans in the Universe and no one else - Nietzsche’s views are still controversial to me. It places a focus on self. This is how it easily ends up "misunderstood" and "abused." There is and will always be greater meaning to life for me. Would Nietzsche agree with me when I say, people are invaluable and important and their lives should be guarded as sacred and cherished? Their feelings matter? Their pain matter? We are humanity. The suffering of one is our suffering and our pain. Doesn't even evolution teach that there is a common ancestor where the X/Y chromosomes came from? That is my view. Whether or not God is in the picture. Our “action, suffering, willing and feeling” have meaning - because we are valuable and important.  

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2 hours ago, XenoFish said:

I wonder when the OP will be back to tell us how wrong we are? 

I have no disagreements with you. My disagreements are with certain views. 

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28 minutes ago, ReadTheGreatControversyEGW said:

Ok, I'm trying lol. If there is no God, no superintellect behind the world. Then the world doesn't make sense. It's just simply impossible. But let me think, if there were only humans in the Universe and no one else - Nietzsche’s views are still controversial to me. It places a focus on self. This is how it easily ends up "misunderstood" and "abused." There is and will always be greater meaning to life for me. Would Nietzsche agree with me when I say, people are invaluable and important and their lives should be guarded as sacred and cherished? Their feelings matter? Their pain matter? We are humanity. The suffering of one is our suffering and our pain. Doesn't even evolution teach that there is a common ancestor where the X/Y chromosomes came from? That is my view. Whether or not God is in the picture. Our “action, suffering, willing and feeling” have meaning - because we are valuable and important.  

Thanks for answering. 

I noticed that you would continue to be a good person even if you didn't believe in God. 

I think if someone is good. It won't make a difference if they are a believer or an atheist.  

I agree with Nietzsche that their isn't really an objective meaning to life from some supernatural entity. Which for myself, makes me feel that my choices matter even more. No one is going to save us, or correct a wrong. I see it as the reason why as humans we should strive for a better world. As an atheist I feel that we as a species decide our fate. If it all burns or if we make utopia, it's because of our choices.

Edited by spartan max2
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28 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

our choices

Choices definitely matter and are important in the grand scheme of things. What I love about God is that He places a worth on humanity that is out of this world. Like infinite value. 

Edited by ReadTheGreatControversyEGW
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9 hours ago, ReadTheGreatControversyEGW said:

And telling us something like that Is dangerous because we humans can be pretty evil at times lol ... 

Seems like we can get pretty evil when we think we are serving a  higher purpose.   I suspect it is a lot easier to get soldiers to die if they think there is a higher purpose and an afterlife.

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21 hours ago, ReadTheGreatControversyEGW said:

Truth is defined as facts, actuality or reality. The reality of a situation. This is truth. Are all truths easily or immediately discernible/perceivable? I don't think so.

I'll give you an example of how I perceive the word 'fact':

The Eiffel tower is in Paris. This is not a gut feeling, a belief or an opinion- it's a 'fact', the truth.

what does the word 'fact' mean to you? Just out of interest ;)

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Hi @ReadTheGreatControversyEGW  I noticed you mention fossils the other day.  You were saying we shouldn’t be surprised when we find fossils “ON mountains” because The Flood would have carried them? or the creatures they were? to the tops of the mountains.   I almost responded because fossils are found WITHIN nearly every Layer of the surface of the earth.    I almost posted a picture of the Grand Canyon ..because a fairly complete history of fossilized life forms from that area are Evident within it’s layers.     So, anyway,  I’m just curious please… how old do you believe/think the earth is?

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46 minutes ago, ReadTheGreatControversyEGW said:

Choices definitely matter and are important in the grand scheme of things. What I love about God is that He places a worth on humanity that is out of this world. Like infinite value. 

Here's the thing about that 'value' it is a man-made concept, not God's. You're religion is just a form of meaning making. People created it, made it up. Tacked on their own wishes and desires as if God dictated it. It is a human construct. It only exist and has value solely because you believe it does. That belief doesn't make it real or true.

Edited by XenoFish
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2 hours ago, ReadTheGreatControversyEGW said:

Ok, I'm trying lol. If there is no God, no superintellect behind the world. Then the world doesn't make sense. It's just simply impossible. But let me think, if there were only humans in the Universe and no one else - Nietzsche’s views are still controversial to me. It places a focus on self. This is how it easily ends up "misunderstood" and "abused." There is and will always be greater meaning to life for me. Would Nietzsche agree with me when I say, people are invaluable and important and their lives should be guarded as sacred and cherished? Their feelings matter? Their pain matter? We are humanity. The suffering of one is our suffering and our pain. Doesn't even evolution teach that there is a common ancestor where the X/Y chromosomes came from? That is my view. Whether or not God is in the picture. Our “action, suffering, willing and feeling” have meaning - because we are valuable and important.  

Thanks for your view. 

For me: it is worth mentioning that Nietzsche did write about compassion, empathy, and recognizing the suffering of others. He viewed empathy and compassion not as inherent moral imperatives, but as natural human instincts that arise from our social nature. While Nietzsche does not explicitly discuss the sacredness or inherent value of human life, his philosophy does not discount the importance of human emotions and experiences.

Read, It's important to engage in critical thinking and consider different philosophical perspectives when contemplating the meaning of life and our values. Nietzsche's ideas are meant to challenge conventional beliefs and encourage individuals to explore their own understanding of meaning and value. Philosophy is meant to encourage deep thinking and questioning. 


 

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3 hours ago, ReadTheGreatControversyEGW said:

That's the thing though. Life is definitely not meaningless. This is one reason why I reject supposed "scientific theory" that calls foolish everything that cannot be seen or tested or observed in a lab. Science is in no position to make that determination. It is not all knowing, and never will be.  Some don't believe there is more to life than meets the eye and that's ok. In the event that there is more, as per the witness of many millions, that would be a a risk not worth taking.   

You’re back to bashing science. That didn’t take long. 

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2 hours ago, ReadTheGreatControversyEGW said:

Choices definitely matter and are important in the grand scheme of things. What I love about God is that He places a worth on humanity that is out of this world. Like infinite value. 

God stands by and does nothing while humans slaughter each other by the millions. What infinite value he found them. These fanciful notions of God's love are entirely a human invention. It's individuals sharing in a collective delusion that bears no resemblance to stark reality and the naked truth of human existence. Why anyone would speak of a God that allowed his own son to suffer and die, nailed to a tree as loving is bewildering. The love of this God bears no resemblance to human love. 

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It's funny, but this thread feels just like a Manwon Lender/Grim Reaper 6 thread. :huh:

Edited by Hammerclaw
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1 hour ago, Hammerclaw said:

Manwon Lender/Grim Reaper 6

Now that you mention it...where did he go?

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1 hour ago, joc said:

Now that you mention it...where did he go?

Mybe he didn't.

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On 9/22/2023 at 6:48 AM, ReadTheGreatControversyEGW said:

Are all truths subjective? Are there any objective truths? 

If all truths are subjective, then there is no truth at all and the world is in chaos. Because nothing is true. Order and truth are inseparably linked. What do you think of all this?   

Truth is defined as facts, actuality or reality. The reality of a situation. This is truth. Are all truths easily or immediately discernible/perceivable? I don't think so.   

"Nietzsche’s assessment was as follows: once one understands that there is no higher purpose to the life we live, our “action, suffering, willing and feeling” will have no meaning. [1] One who embraces these values, and thus understands that individuals may set their own purpose for life, is defined by Nietzsche as an “Ubermensch,” or a “superman.”

"In his rise to power, Hitler built the concept of the Aryan race upon Nietzsche’s “Ubermensch.” Germany during the 1930’s was a nation with a majority that faced burdens from the first World War — burdens put on them by their previous generation—which, naturally, they wished to blame on others. Hitler defined the qualities of an “Ubermensch”—one who is intelligent enough to set their own purpose for life—as qualities exclusively inherent of the Aryan race. On the other hand, Hitler coined the term “Untermenschen” to describe Jews, homosexuals, and black people, as well as all others, meaning “inferior humans.” Hitler saw in his people a self-focused mentality, as well as a lack of care for understanding the meaning of others’ suffering because of that." 

https://slcpoliticalreview.com/2017/12/11/anarchy-from-nihilism-to-nationalism-to-nazism/

"once one understands that there is no higher purpose to the life we live, our “action, suffering, willing and feeling” will have no meaning." 

No higher purpose to life? Then 'let's eat and drink for tomorrow we die' Everything you do have no meaning? Oh but it does! 

Nihilism - the belief that all values are baseless and that nothing can be known or communicated. He actually proposed new values, calling it the lack thereof.   

What he provided was a belief system that left no fundamental basis for good and evil, right and wrong. The problem is that, what is right to one may be wrong and even harmful for another. 

The article said that certain people misused Nietzsche’s ideas. Well why not? It teaches anarchy, but in a subtle way.  Anarchy - defined as the 'absence of any cohesive principle, such as a common standard or purpose.'      
 

 

 I would say that this shows the limitations of western philosophy due to its limited timeline. Eastern philosophy, which is more ancient and has a longer timeline, has stated that values and virtues are not abstract contrivances( as nihilism and existentialism does) , and that their practice would enable a person to get enlightened or Buddhahood.

Enlightened masters like the Buddha, Anandamayi Ma, Rajini Menon have highlighted virtuous conduct as a means to enlightenment, and Rajini Menon is a modern enlightened master who attained enlightenment through this means alone. 

https://rajiniji.com/rajini-ma/

I have highlighted Rajini Menon in this thread of mine...

These sayings would highlight how values and virtuous conduct is interpreted as in eastern philosophy...

Quote

 

When even one virtue becomes our nature, the mind becomes clean and tranquil. Then there is no need to practice meditation; we will automatically be meditating always. ~ Swami Satchidananda

Wholesome virtuous behavior progressively leads to the foremost.~ Buddha AN 10.1

If you do right, irrespective of what the other does, it will slow down the (turbulent) mind. ~ Rajini Menon

 

 

Edited by Ajay0
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18 hours ago, spartan max2 said:

If you woke up tommorow and no longer believed in God. What would you do?

Evangelise for Atheism I presume. 

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5 hours ago, joc said:

Now that you mention it...where did he go?

He posted a few hours ago:

On the larger question, while I think the topic might interest him, there's nothing SDA about Grim's postings.

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10 hours ago, ReadTheGreatControversyEGW said:

Ok, I'm trying lol. If there is no God, no superintellect behind the world. Then the world doesn't make sense. It's just simply impossible. But let me think, if there were only humans in the Universe and no one else - Nietzsche’s views are still controversial to me. It places a focus on self. This is how it easily ends up "misunderstood" and "abused." There is and will always be greater meaning to life for me. Would Nietzsche agree with me when I say, people are invaluable and important and their lives should be guarded as sacred and cherished? Their feelings matter? Their pain matter? We are humanity. The suffering of one is our suffering and our pain. Doesn't even evolution teach that there is a common ancestor where the X/Y chromosomes came from? That is my view. Whether or not God is in the picture. Our “action, suffering, willing and feeling” have meaning - because we are valuable and important.  

You need God to tell you people matter? 
How…. Sad. 

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