Wilderness woes

[Slowlydawning]

I will try and keep this as short as possible, but some things just need to be said.

I was raised in a Christian cult, and brainwashed from birth throughout my development and into adulthood, and I was not a rebellious teenager (that would maybe have been better) but I embraced every aspect of the religion. My whole personality, my entire being was forged by what god wanted, what he approved. Who I was was defined completely by the faith.

We were not allowed to mingle with non believers, we were not allowed access to information outside the faiths books, and I have to emphasize how strict this was, and it was under the guise of protection against demonic influence. I vividly remember whenever someone said anything contrary to what my god taught, I whole heartedly believed a demon or the devil was actively attacking me, and I had to fill my mind with prayer, and trust in god's strength...sigh.

Anyway, the control went further and heavily influenced my view of the world. Material things were thought of as just temporary, and any desire to own anything was met with, and countered by meditation on scriptures like 1John 2:15 - "Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. 17And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever." Growing up with that in mind, it became how I saw things. I remember as a child finding a toy car, and it was so wonderful. It was a small red sports car, and had doors that could open, but I immediately knew it would be a problem, so I played with it in secret. But my mom caught me, and my dad stepped on it with his boot, crushing it. I remember my mom's concerned face as she asked me: "Don't you want to go to heaven?".

Beyond those traumas, another part of me that was heavily shaped was my purpose in life, and the meaning of life. My whole purpose was to please god, and the meaning of life was to worship him so closely, that I lived in union with him. Succes in the materialistic world was the purpose of the evildoers and 'worldly' people, and they would perish in the cataclysm and those in union with god would enter paradise.

Now, I know there are people, and I've seen them here on this forum, who judge and ridicule people with faith, and think to themselves: "I would have gotten out early, I would have never been that stupid, or how could they believe such nonsense without proof." All I can say is sometimes vulnerability to religion isn't an intellect issue. Even though I am not faithfull anymore it angers me when people with conviction, and who preach their faith are ridiculed or degraded, maybe because those attacks feel personal somehow. I guess that's why I've been reluctant to comment here, and won't stay long probably.

Regardless, to get to the point, I've been out of that faith for 10 - 15 years now, and went through the trauma of shunning and all that, but even now I am struggling to get to grips with reality. The contrast is immense. As an example, I used to look up at the stars and feel god was looking down on me, I felt he was powerful and cared about me, and not just that, he was planning my way forward, and I would cry tears of joy amidst the comfort and contentment of that place of mind. Now I look up and see only planets and satellites reflecting sunlight, or globes of gas burning light-years away. It is marvelous, but cold and empty. The grand spectacle reminds me of my insignificance and how alone I am. Alone at the mercy of nature, and alone in the face of death. I still find this hard to process. More than that, and maybe because my brain was wired like that all those years, I see no meaning or purpose in this material world. I have no drive to be successfull, and all the shiny things are hollow. Even love appears as just a carnal lust. But now I am left with nothing beyond that, no paradise or eternal life of bliss. No matter how hard I try to face reality, it's just pretty scary. I try to tell myself - it is what it is, deal with it or don't, but I find myself drawn to magic inevitably.

For all the evil and lies that comes with magic (religion), it does come with hope. I feel hopeless, and things seem pointless without its greater meaning, even though it is false hope.

Lately I have developed this irretating inkling, a nagging desire to experience that kind of hope again. Like the Israelites wanted to go back to Egypt when they were hungry in the wilderness (if that even happened lol). 

But there is no going back. Yes there was hope in faith, but it and it's rewards lie outside reality, and is a cage for the mind, although one with comforts. I cannot lie to myself and believe again just to experience that hope, but I can't process the cold hopeless emptiness of reality considering where I come from. I feel the lies of religion have dealt me a death blow.

So my question is: How do I find hope in the face of my human fear of death, and my vulnerability to nature? How do I find meaning and purpose when we are just animals? How do I find comfort when no one above all these things is guiding me? What does hope even look like in a magicless world? I feel I don't have the mental tools for this

And please, you intelligent folks, please remember where this question is coming from before you judge or mock. And my questions are direct and deliberate, not sarcastic or deceiving, it's really how I feel, even though the answers may be obvious.

Thanks

[XenoFish]

18 minutes ago, Slowlydawning said:

So my question is: How do I find hope in the face of my human fear of death, and my vulnerability to nature? How do I find meaning and purpose when we are just animals? How do I find comfort when no one above all these things is guiding me? What does hope even look like in a magicless world? I feel I don't have the mental tools for this

And please, you intelligent folks, please remember where this question is coming from before you judge or mock. And my questions are direct and deliberate, not sarcastic or deceiving, it's really how I feel, even though the answers may be obvious.

I can try my best to answer the first paragraph, but the second one feels a tad suspicious.

So how do you find hope in a hopeless world, depends on the type of hope. I don't hope or expect much in life, it just happens. I'm probably not the best person to answer any of your questions considering I'm pretty much an optimistic nihilist. No meaning, no point, no purpose, just living life the best I can. I don't expect much either. 

The reason your second paragraph is odd to me is that you expect that members here will obey it. Good chance it probably won't happen. Though maybe, which depends entirely on how you further interact with the other members. 

Good luck.

[+Desertrat56]

1 hour ago, Slowlydawning said:

I will try and keep this as short as possible, but some things just need to be said.

I was raised in a Christian cult, and brainwashed from birth throughout my development and into adulthood, and I was not a rebellious teenager (that would maybe have been better) but I embraced every aspect of the religion. My whole personality, my entire being was forged by what god wanted, what he approved. Who I was was defined completely by the faith.

We were not allowed to mingle with non believers, we were not allowed access to information outside the faiths books, and I have to emphasize how strict this was, and it was under the guise of protection against demonic influence. I vividly remember whenever someone said anything contrary to what my god taught, I whole heartedly believed a demon or the devil was actively attacking me, and I had to fill my mind with prayer, and trust in god's strength...sigh.

Anyway, the control went further and heavily influenced my view of the world. Material things were thought of as just temporary, and any desire to own anything was met with, and countered by meditation on scriptures like 1John 2:15 - "Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. 17And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever." Growing up with that in mind, it became how I saw things. I remember as a child finding a toy car, and it was so wonderful. It was a small red sports car, and had doors that could open, but I immediately knew it would be a problem, so I played with it in secret. But my mom caught me, and my dad stepped on it with his boot, crushing it. I remember my mom's concerned face as she asked me: "Don't you want to go to heaven?".

Beyond those traumas, another part of me that was heavily shaped was my purpose in life, and the meaning of life. My whole purpose was to please god, and the meaning of life was to worship him so closely, that I lived in union with him. Succes in the materialistic world was the purpose of the evildoers and 'worldly' people, and they would perish in the cataclysm and those in union with god would enter paradise.

Now, I know there are people, and I've seen them here on this forum, who judge and ridicule people with faith, and think to themselves: "I would have gotten out early, I would have never been that stupid, or how could they believe such nonsense without proof." All I can say is sometimes vulnerability to religion isn't an intellect issue. Even though I am not faithfull anymore it angers me when people with conviction, and who preach their faith are ridiculed or degraded, maybe because those attacks feel personal somehow. I guess that's why I've been reluctant to comment here, and won't stay long probably.

Regardless, to get to the point, I've been out of that faith for 10 - 15 years now, and went through the trauma of shunning and all that, but even now I am struggling to get to grips with reality. The contrast is immense. As an example, I used to look up at the stars and feel god was looking down on me, I felt he was powerful and cared about me, and not just that, he was planning my way forward, and I would cry tears of joy amidst the comfort and contentment of that place of mind. Now I look up and see only planets and satellites reflecting sunlight, or globes of gas burning light-years away. It is marvelous, but cold and empty. The grand spectacle reminds me of my insignificance and how alone I am. Alone at the mercy of nature, and alone in the face of death. I still find this hard to process. More than that, and maybe because my brain was wired like that all those years, I see no meaning or purpose in this material world. I have no drive to be successfull, and all the shiny things are hollow. Even love appears as just a carnal lust. But now I am left with nothing beyond that, no paradise or eternal life of bliss. No matter how hard I try to face reality, it's just pretty scary. I try to tell myself - it is what it is, deal with it or don't, but I find myself drawn to magic inevitably.

For all the evil and lies that comes with magic (religion), it does come with hope. I feel hopeless, and things seem pointless without its greater meaning, even though it is false hope.

Lately I have developed this irretating inkling, a nagging desire to experience that kind of hope again. Like the Israelites wanted to go back to Egypt when they were hungry in the wilderness (if that even happened lol). 

But there is no going back. Yes there was hope in faith, but it and it's rewards lie outside reality, and is a cage for the mind, although one with comforts. I cannot lie to myself and believe again just to experience that hope, but I can't process the cold hopeless emptiness of reality considering where I come from. I feel the lies of religion have dealt me a death blow.

So my question is: How do I find hope in the face of my human fear of death, and my vulnerability to nature? How do I find meaning and purpose when we are just animals? How do I find comfort when no one above all these things is guiding me? What does hope even look like in a magicless world? I feel I don't have the mental tools for this

And please, you intelligent folks, please remember where this question is coming from before you judge or mock. And my questions are direct and deliberate, not sarcastic or deceiving, it's really how I feel, even though the answers may be obvious.

Thanks

Thank you for being honest about this.  I am sorry you feel so lost, it should be temporary, a space between equilibriums.   I have to say I am one of those who judged and sometimes ridiculed people with faith, but it is not the faith I was judging and ridiculing, it was the lack of understanding of how the world actually works and the judgemental sillyness of "them vs us" attitudes, based on fear.   Nowadays I try to be respectful and ask questions, rather than accusing people of being "idiots".   It is very frustrating for me because of my relatives who have judged me and one who still keeps my name on the  non-believer's prayer list even though he has never asked me what I believe.

There is so much "magic" and wonder in the world without any belief in a fatherly diety (which often seems insane and bi-polar because of people's misuse of the deity as the authority to manipulate people).   You know about the manipulation that is used in the name of some god, how it really is just some nacissist control freak needing a group to lead and control.   The lies are abundant about what passages in some holy book mean and how "God said..." when it said no such thing.   I have always been a question asker and as a child I have had adults screaming at me because of my questions or the ability to read and know punctuation means something in a complete sentence.   

It will get better.  Just find one thing that amazes you in nature, something you can separate from the beliefs you were indoctrinated with as a child.   Or, take a pottery or painting class, something creative that gives you  an outlet for your feelings, as well as an idea that we are all creators in some way.  

We are all more than the sum of our physical parts and that does not require a belief in any deity, it requires a belief in ourselves and a thirst for knowledge, for understanding how things work.   Space is cold and mostly empty from our perspective, but it isn't really as empty as it seems.  The "vacum" of space is not really a vacum, just an indication that humans can't survive unaided in space.   

Maybe you could go to the NASA website and look at some of the photos coming back from the Hubble Telescope.   To me those are amazingly beautiful, and beauty is something to be amazed at, whether it is a flower, a lady bug, a bird, a human, or a plethora of other things.

Don't give up.   You are just in a between place and sometimes that can seem like it takes a long time but you can get to the other side of it.

[+OverSword]

So you are feeling hopeless because you won't or may not last forever?  When I look up at the night sky I feel wonder at the immenseness and intricacies of a universe that could provide a platform for our existence, not a cold emptiness.  I don't believe in organized religion but I do believe in God or a creator whether that be a vast intelligence that somehow created a physical universe capable of providing a context in which beings like us can evolve or whether it is an evolving computer simulation.  Either way it's the same thing.  Your feeling of hopelessness is a bit of a choice.  The world, our lives, our interactions and relationships with others are something to be enjoyed to the fullest and love is real and a choice.  The more you give the more you get.  Who cares if there is a heaven or a hell?  That is for when life is over and until then you have to live life in the most positive way that you can and love doing so.

[+Desertrat56]

Was it Carl Sagan that said "we are made of star stuff"?   I think we are and we go back to that when our bodies decay after we die.

Edited September 26 by Desertrat56

[XenoFish]

15 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

Was it Carl Sagan that said "we are made of star stuff"?   I think we are and we go back to that when our bodies decay after we die.

Pretty much true. When our parent star has died, and our once blue marble begins to break apart. Dust and rust, cast out through the cosmos. One small speckle some-thing so small to not be noticed. That particle might have been you. Destined to drift the void. 

Edited September 26 by XenoFish

[Guyver]

Love your honesty Slowlydawning.  I wish I could give you an answer that could help, but…I’m in the same boat that you are in.  I too am struggling to find meaning after losing faith and un-brainwashing myself.  I know it’s a difficult journey. One piece of advice that was given to me was to embrace your angels and slay your demons.  What that means is find things that give you enjoyment, and do them.  Things that hurt you, cut them off.

[jmccr8]

4 hours ago, Slowlydawning said:

I will try and keep this as short as possible, but some things just need to be said.

I was raised in a Christian cult, and brainwashed from birth throughout my development and into adulthood, and I was not a rebellious teenager (that would maybe have been better) but I embraced every aspect of the religion. My whole personality, my entire being was forged by what god wanted, what he approved. Who I was was defined completely by the faith.

We were not allowed to mingle with non believers, we were not allowed access to information outside the faiths books, and I have to emphasize how strict this was, and it was under the guise of protection against demonic influence. I vividly remember whenever someone said anything contrary to what my god taught, I whole heartedly believed a demon or the devil was actively attacking me, and I had to fill my mind with prayer, and trust in god's strength...sigh.

Anyway, the control went further and heavily influenced my view of the world. Material things were thought of as just temporary, and any desire to own anything was met with, and countered by meditation on scriptures like 1John 2:15 - "Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. 17And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever." Growing up with that in mind, it became how I saw things. I remember as a child finding a toy car, and it was so wonderful. It was a small red sports car, and had doors that could open, but I immediately knew it would be a problem, so I played with it in secret. But my mom caught me, and my dad stepped on it with his boot, crushing it. I remember my mom's concerned face as she asked me: "Don't you want to go to heaven?".

Beyond those traumas, another part of me that was heavily shaped was my purpose in life, and the meaning of life. My whole purpose was to please god, and the meaning of life was to worship him so closely, that I lived in union with him. Succes in the materialistic world was the purpose of the evildoers and 'worldly' people, and they would perish in the cataclysm and those in union with god would enter paradise.

Now, I know there are people, and I've seen them here on this forum, who judge and ridicule people with faith, and think to themselves: "I would have gotten out early, I would have never been that stupid, or how could they believe such nonsense without proof." All I can say is sometimes vulnerability to religion isn't an intellect issue. Even though I am not faithfull anymore it angers me when people with conviction, and who preach their faith are ridiculed or degraded, maybe because those attacks feel personal somehow. I guess that's why I've been reluctant to comment here, and won't stay long probably.

Regardless, to get to the point, I've been out of that faith for 10 - 15 years now, and went through the trauma of shunning and all that, but even now I am struggling to get to grips with reality. The contrast is immense. As an example, I used to look up at the stars and feel god was looking down on me, I felt he was powerful and cared about me, and not just that, he was planning my way forward, and I would cry tears of joy amidst the comfort and contentment of that place of mind. Now I look up and see only planets and satellites reflecting sunlight, or globes of gas burning light-years away. It is marvelous, but cold and empty. The grand spectacle reminds me of my insignificance and how alone I am. Alone at the mercy of nature, and alone in the face of death. I still find this hard to process. More than that, and maybe because my brain was wired like that all those years, I see no meaning or purpose in this material world. I have no drive to be successfull, and all the shiny things are hollow. Even love appears as just a carnal lust. But now I am left with nothing beyond that, no paradise or eternal life of bliss. No matter how hard I try to face reality, it's just pretty scary. I try to tell myself - it is what it is, deal with it or don't, but I find myself drawn to magic inevitably.

For all the evil and lies that comes with magic (religion), it does come with hope. I feel hopeless, and things seem pointless without its greater meaning, even though it is false hope.

Lately I have developed this irretating inkling, a nagging desire to experience that kind of hope again. Like the Israelites wanted to go back to Egypt when they were hungry in the wilderness (if that even happened lol). 

But there is no going back. Yes there was hope in faith, but it and it's rewards lie outside reality, and is a cage for the mind, although one with comforts. I cannot lie to myself and believe again just to experience that hope, but I can't process the cold hopeless emptiness of reality considering where I come from. I feel the lies of religion have dealt me a death blow.

So my question is: How do I find hope in the face of my human fear of death, and my vulnerability to nature? How do I find meaning and purpose when we are just animals? How do I find comfort when no one above all these things is guiding me? What does hope even look like in a magicless world? I feel I don't have the mental tools for this

And please, you intelligent folks, please remember where this question is coming from before you judge or mock. And my questions are direct and deliberate, not sarcastic or deceiving, it's really how I feel, even though the answers may be obvious.

Thanks

Hi Slowly

Really none of us can tell you what to do and only share what works for us individually. I have worked with my hands most of my life and enjoy being a creator, taking an idea from my mind or someone else's and making it real.

I habe had a fulll and active life full of many aspects of what it is to be human, challenges, doubts, successes, failures each contributing to a better understanding of who I am and the world I live in.

Many years ago I came to the conclussion that god is a word to describe our intelligence and ability to think and adapt both ourselves and environment for our needs, to create.

I was a bit of a wild child and never expected to see 30 and yet am still here near 40 years after that. Eternal life is not a desire of mine and am content that I have this life to experience so focus on making it worthwhile.

I don't know what you do for work or even if you have a job or hobby that you enjoy. I do know that doing what I do gives me satisfaction and a sense of purpose/reward so learning new things has always been a part of how I live and enjoy my work/life.

All I can suggest is to explore your interests and develop them in a way that gives you a sense of purpose and reward.

 

[+Sherapy]

5 hours ago, Slowlydawning said:

I will try and keep this as short as possible, but some things just need to be said.

I was raised in a Christian cult, and brainwashed from birth throughout my development and into adulthood, and I was not a rebellious teenager (that would maybe have been better) but I embraced every aspect of the religion. My whole personality, my entire being was forged by what god wanted, what he approved. Who I was was defined completely by the faith.

We were not allowed to mingle with non believers, we were not allowed access to information outside the faiths books, and I have to emphasize how strict this was, and it was under the guise of protection against demonic influence. I vividly remember whenever someone said anything contrary to what my god taught, I whole heartedly believed a demon or the devil was actively attacking me, and I had to fill my mind with prayer, and trust in god's strength...sigh.

Anyway, the control went further and heavily influenced my view of the world. Material things were thought of as just temporary, and any desire to own anything was met with, and countered by meditation on scriptures like 1John 2:15 - "Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. 17And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever." Growing up with that in mind, it became how I saw things. I remember as a child finding a toy car, and it was so wonderful. It was a small red sports car, and had doors that could open, but I immediately knew it would be a problem, so I played with it in secret. But my mom caught me, and my dad stepped on it with his boot, crushing it. I remember my mom's concerned face as she asked me: "Don't you want to go to heaven?".

Beyond those traumas, another part of me that was heavily shaped was my purpose in life, and the meaning of life. My whole purpose was to please god, and the meaning of life was to worship him so closely, that I lived in union with him. Succes in the materialistic world was the purpose of the evildoers and 'worldly' people, and they would perish in the cataclysm and those in union with god would enter paradise.

Now, I know there are people, and I've seen them here on this forum, who judge and ridicule people with faith, and think to themselves: "I would have gotten out early, I would have never been that stupid, or how could they believe such nonsense without proof." All I can say is sometimes vulnerability to religion isn't an intellect issue. Even though I am not faithfull anymore it angers me when people with conviction, and who preach their faith are ridiculed or degraded, maybe because those attacks feel personal somehow. I guess that's why I've been reluctant to comment here, and won't stay long probably.

Regardless, to get to the point, I've been out of that faith for 10 - 15 years now, and went through the trauma of shunning and all that, but even now I am struggling to get to grips with reality. The contrast is immense. As an example, I used to look up at the stars and feel god was looking down on me, I felt he was powerful and cared about me, and not just that, he was planning my way forward, and I would cry tears of joy amidst the comfort and contentment of that place of mind. Now I look up and see only planets and satellites reflecting sunlight, or globes of gas burning light-years away. It is marvelous, but cold and empty. The grand spectacle reminds me of my insignificance and how alone I am. Alone at the mercy of nature, and alone in the face of death. I still find this hard to process. More than that, and maybe because my brain was wired like that all those years, I see no meaning or purpose in this material world. I have no drive to be successfull, and all the shiny things are hollow. Even love appears as just a carnal lust. But now I am left with nothing beyond that, no paradise or eternal life of bliss. No matter how hard I try to face reality, it's just pretty scary. I try to tell myself - it is what it is, deal with it or don't, but I find myself drawn to magic inevitably.

For all the evil and lies that comes with magic (religion), it does come with hope. I feel hopeless, and things seem pointless without its greater meaning, even though it is false hope.

Lately I have developed this irretating inkling, a nagging desire to experience that kind of hope again. Like the Israelites wanted to go back to Egypt when they were hungry in the wilderness (if that even happened lol). 

But there is no going back. Yes there was hope in faith, but it and it's rewards lie outside reality, and is a cage for the mind, although one with comforts. I cannot lie to myself and believe again just to experience that hope, but I can't process the cold hopeless emptiness of reality considering where I come from. I feel the lies of religion have dealt me a death blow.

So my question is: How do I find hope in the face of my human fear of death, and my vulnerability to nature? How do I find meaning and purpose when we are just animals? How do I find comfort when no one above all these things is guiding me? What does hope even look like in a magicless world? I feel I don't have the mental tools for this

And please, you intelligent folks, please remember where this question is coming from before you judge or mock. And my questions are direct and deliberate, not sarcastic or deceiving, it's really how I feel, even though the answers may be obvious.

Thanks

Geez, I am so sorry you experienced this. What courage it took to share your story, thank you for that. 

 

Many of us on here have been through our own trauma's with religion and have found our way out. And, so will you. You have done the hardest part you let go. Now you get to live on your own terms, will you have bad days, yes, will you have challenges, yes, will it be rough at times, yes. Will you want to give up.in despair, yes. I cant tell you how to write your next chapter, but from where I sit you have so much to look forward too. All the best,just take things one step at a time and stick around, you will find friends here too. 

Edited September 26 by Sherapy

[+Hammerclaw]

The heart of love is hope. We wake up with hope, hope through the day and lay our heads down hoping at days end. Hope does, indeed, flow eternal from the wellspring if the soul. Hope is the magic we, ourselves, weave into the world, the stuff of stardust and dreams. So, don't walk with head downcast. Shrug off the weight of the world laid upon your shoulders by others and embrace the clear blue sky and the promise of tomorrow. Tomorrow belongs to you.

[DieChecker]

6 hours ago, Slowlydawning said:

So my question is: How do I find hope in the face of my human fear of death, and my vulnerability to nature? How do I find meaning and purpose when we are just animals? How do I find comfort when no one above all these things is guiding me? What does hope even look like in a magicless world? I feel I don't have the mental tools for this

Well, you did kind of admit religion has its place. And you kind of yearn to go back to having the comfort of religion's rules/God. Your problem is the religion you were raised in was anti-social and overbearing in its authoritarianism. 

Know that not all religion is like that. There's religions that are accepting of nearly anything (universalism). And many Christian denominations that are loving and biblical, but very liberal and not controlling. 

Failing that, there's clubs, and groups, that are community, or hobby, based, that can meet a lot of your social needs.

I've found a lot of comfort and meaning (hope) in being part of a family. Raising kids is hard, but rewarding, as you see them doing the right things as you taught them. Having a very strong circle of friends can give nearly the same thing, as you all support and help each other through life. Believe me, a wife can be just as controlling as any god out there. If that's what you're looking for.

Kids also feel, in a way, like you'll exist after you're gone. As they remember you, and treasure, the stories, and memories, you made with them. 

Failing that, you should work to leave something positive behind. Help construct a park. Or volunteer to help the poorest, and homeless. Doing good for good's sake can being hope and meaning.

It's when people sit and do nothing. Simply living day to day, that things seem the worst. Doing things will give you a purpose and hope. And it hopefully will snowball from there.

Many will say getting mental health help will help. And thats true too, as a mental health professional will understand what you're looking for and have resources, and contacts, to get you moving.

1. Check out other denominations.

2. Check out other religions.

3. Clubs and social groups.

4. Family and friends.

5. Volunteer.

6. Counseling.

7. Don't just do nothing.

[XenoFish]

7 hours ago, Slowlydawning said:

Lately I have developed this irretating inkling, a nagging desire to experience that kind of hope again. Like the Israelites wanted to go back to Egypt when they were hungry in the wilderness (if that even happened lol). 

 

I've been thinking about this some today. Why not just have the faith without the religion? It's spirituality without all the cultural and dogmatic trappings. 

[+joc]

7 hours ago, Slowlydawning said:

So my question is: How do I find hope in the face of my human fear of death, and my vulnerability to nature? How do I find meaning and purpose when we are just animals? How do I find comfort when no one above all these things is guiding me? What does hope even look like in a magicless world? I feel I don't have the mental tools for this

Everyone has opinions...these are just mine.  First of all, hope changes nothing except the way we 'feel'.   Hope is a false feeling...false and fleeting.

The only thing that will change anything in our lives is action.  So, if you can change a thing...change it.  If you cannot, then find someone else who can help you.  But 'hoping' things will change is a pointless, wearisome exercise.  So, forget hope.  What you have to do is grasp the bare, raw, truth.  Everything that is had a beginning.  That does not necessarily mean that we weren't created.  It's quite possible actually.  But not by an omnipotent being that has always been...even the 'creator' had a beginning.  If there even was one.  The truth is, we don't really know that we weren't created.  

Secondly, you must take to heart an irrefutable truth...people are stupid.  You are stupid, I'm stupid, we are all stupid.  The definition of stupid being:  We don't know the answers to much.  Some...but not much.  Therefore, if you are seeking someone to guide you...you will very soon, no doubt, find yourself back in another cult of some kind.

Lastly, you don't need Magic...as you call Religion.  It is all Superstitious Paranoia.  What you need really is The Truth...not a truth or some truth but...The...Truth.   

And here is 'the' truth.  We know something of our universe.  We don't know we are alone.  And we may in fact not be alone really at all.  We just don't know.  So take what we do know...provable truth...and focus on that.  Stay out of the weeds that are mostly in your own brain.  Figure it out yourself.  You can.  You are smart.  And when you get it figured out your self...you will be in control of you.  And that is what you ultimately want.  To be in control of yourself.  Just my thoughts... 

Edited September 26 by joc

[jmccr8]

2 hours ago, DieChecker said:

Well, you did kind of admit religion has its place. And you kind of yearn to go back to having the comfort of religion's rules/God. Your problem is the religion you were raised in was anti-social and overbearing in its authoritarianism

Hi Die

Not sure it isn't a withdrawal symptom like what a booze or drug addict goes through either though. It's tough for some people to make their own way on their own two feet.

I'm not saying religion has no social values like being in a group. I socialize well but very am much a loner in several senses so don't feel a need to be part of anyone particular group and have always interacted with multiple groups even if they didn't like each other.

[DieChecker]

37 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Die

Not sure it isn't a withdrawal symptom like what a booze or drug addict goes through either though. It's tough for some people to make their own way on their own two feet.

I'm not saying religion has no social values like being in a group. I socialize well but very am much a loner in several senses so don't feel a need to be part of anyone particular group and have always interacted with multiple groups even if they didn't like each other.

Historically, I'm a introvert loner also. And I try to avoid large scale social gatherings. But, really, going to church for an hour, or hour and a half, while interacting with various church related individuals during the week hasn't been too hard.

I often show up to b-day parties late, and leave early, because I can't handle hours and hours of chit chat, which to my wife is like a steak dinner and desert... she loves it.

I'd agree leaving a religion, or just a denomination of a religion, is hard. Especially if you grew up in it. And especially if it was authoritarian. Just like an abused wife, of a controlling husband, often has no idea how to take care of herself.

What the OP describes is abuse. Community sanctioned, but still abuse. Christianity should increase one's love for others, and forgiveness for others, and tolerance. But, in practice that's not the way it gets taught. 

[+Sherapy]

12 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

Historically, I'm a introvert loner also. And I try to avoid large scale social gatherings. But, really, going to church for an hour, or hour and a half, while interacting with various church related individuals during the week hasn't been too hard.

I often show up to b-day parties late, and leave early, because I can't handle hours and hours of chit chat, which to my wife is like a steak dinner and desert... she loves it.

I'd agree leaving a religion, or just a denomination of a religion, is hard. Especially if you grew up in it. And especially if it was authoritarian. Just like an abused wife, of a controlling husband, often has no idea how to take care of herself.

What the OP describes is abuse. Community sanctioned, but still abuse. Christianity should increase one's love for others, and forgiveness for others, and tolerance. But, in practice that's not the way it gets taught. 

The OP does sound like abuse, as a child of religious abuse myself I feel for this poster. Right now this poster is dealing with the trauma and the stress from it. I think you had a few great ideas on your list get therapy and get a support system. 

Edited September 26 by Sherapy

[openozy]

10 hours ago, Slowlydawning said:

 

So my question is: How do I find hope in the face of my human fear of death, and my vulnerability to nature

Find your own spiritual path without religion. We are born alone and die alone so we need to tailor our own way of living and looking at life, not follow other people.

Edited September 26 by openozy

[SHaYap]

'Meditations' by Marcus Aurelius... 

The complete twelve books in two hours... 

Quote

 

[00.01:56"32]

~

 

[+Sherapy]

24 minutes ago, SHaYap said:

'Meditations' by Marcus Aurelius... 

The complete twelve books in two hours... 

[00.01:56"32]

~

 

[Guyver]

2 hours ago, Sherapy said:

The OP does sound like abuse, as a child of religious abuse myself I feel for this poster. Right now this poster is dealing with the trauma and the stress from it. I think you had a few great ideas on your list get therapy and get a support system. 

Maybe thats true, but something about the word abuse seems really harsh to me as a former believer.  I can say that the things I did, and the way that I acted was a result of me believing I was doing the right thing.  So, I had belief plus action, and in addition, I used spiritual principles from the Bible to live my life.  Many people in America admire this sort of thing.  But, in hindsight….I didn’t force religion down my children’s throats, but when they embraced my religion I was glad.  I’m not glad about it now, and I wish I could go back and do it again.  I would say, if I had religion, and I hope I wouldn’t….but if I did, I would say seek your own path, find your own way, explore many religious options before choosing one, if you are interested in religion.

[Guyver]

Wilderness woes is a very fitting title for this thread. For, when one loses their religion there is a hole in their life.

 

[+Sherapy]

10 hours ago, Guyver said:

Maybe thats true, but something about the word abuse seems really harsh to me as a former believer.  I can say that the things I did, and the way that I acted was a result of me believing I was doing the right thing.  So, I had belief plus action, and in addition, I used spiritual principles from the Bible to live my life.  Many people in America admire this sort of thing.  But, in hindsight….I didn’t force religion down my children’s throats, but when they embraced my religion I was glad.  I’m not glad about it now, and I wish I could go back and do it again.  I would say, if I had religion, and I hope I wouldn’t….but if I did, I would say seek your own path, find your own way, explore many religious options before choosing one, if you are interested in religion.

I understand that the word "abuse" seems harsh, especially as someone who used to believe in a particular religion. and when discussing the potential harm caused by religion, it does not automatically imply that every religious belief or practice is abusive. Yet, some approaches to religious beliefs and practices can sometimes lead to harmful consequences, particularly when they are used to manipulate, control, or harm others.

It seems like you had good intentions and genuinely believed that you were doing the right thing based on your religious beliefs. However, looking back, you may now realize that there were aspects of your approach that you would have handled differently, as a parent just like you this applies across the board the good ones tend to look back and see where they could have been better. This just doesn’t sound like an abusive parent to me Guyv.

Encouraging your children (age appropriate) to explore their own paths, seek their own truth, include their own voice and conclusions while exploring various options is a wonderful approach. It allows them the freedom to develop their own beliefs, values, and understandings of the world, this is the approach I used too.

[+Desertrat56]

---deleted--- 

Edited September 27 by Desertrat56

[+Desertrat56]

17 hours ago, joc said:

The only thing that will change anything in our lives is action.  So, if you can change a thing...change it.  If you cannot, then find someone else who can help you.  But 'hoping' things will change is a pointless, wearisome exercise.  So, forget hope.  What you have to do is grasp the bare, raw, truth.  Everything that is had a beginning.  That does not necessarily mean that we weren't created.  It's quite possible actually.  But not by an omnipotent being that has always been...even the 'creator' had a beginning.  If there even was one.  The truth is, we don't really know that we weren't created.  

And sometimes the only thing we can change is how and what we think.  nothing is personal unless you decide it is, so if someone seems to offer offence it is still your choice to take or not.   I agree with you about hope, it is as useless as faith.   Those two "feelings" are lies you tell yourself to get you through the day or to justify something you know is wrong.

Edited September 27 by Desertrat56

[+Liquid Gardens]

On 9/26/2023 at 9:25 AM, Slowlydawning said:

So my question is: How do I find hope in the face of my human fear of death, and my vulnerability to nature? How do I find meaning and purpose when we are just animals? How do I find comfort when no one above all these things is guiding me? What does hope even look like in a magicless world? I feel I don't have the mental tools for this

I could try to explain my answers to your questions but I'm not sure it would help because they are my answers and were ones I had to come to on my own, I'm not sure trying to explain them would be any more understandable to you than someone trying to explain to me how their religion provides answers to the above would be for me.  I would just make sure that you cut yourself enough slack and give yourself enough space and time to work through the above points, I think everyone, even non-believers, work through those same or very similar questions, they are some of the most profound ones we all encounter and have to grapple with.

You may feel like you don't have the tools for this but I'd bet you do, it's just that through no fault of your own you haven't had much practice using those tools for these questions; I'm not comfortable using a power-saw either because I'm not familiar enough with that tool and I like having fingers, but I'm sure I could learn.  The fact that you are analyzing and pondering these questions indicates to me at least that you do have these mental tools and are exercising them well here, I think with more time you will find your peace.