The Golden Rule is not so golden.

[Doug1066]

To some, the Golden Rule is what nuns used to hit them with in Catholic school.  To others, it is an ideal to live by.

However, there are some practical limitations:

1.  Door knocking Christians fail to understand that some people don't want to be bothered with their religion.  How many doors slammed in their faces does it take to make them understand that these folks don't want to be done unto?

2.  A judge sentencing a prisoner cannot simultaneously sentence someone and apply the Golden Rule, unless of course, that judge wants to do time.

3.  Most people do not take pleasure from pain.  But some do.  They're called masochists.

4.  Genital mutilation of children (male and female).  How many people who support these practices would want somebody cutting on them?

5.  If I see someone I would like to have sex with, should I just go over and start having sex with them, even if they don't want to?  The Golden Rule is justification for rape.

 

Should we really "do unto others as we would have them do unto us?"

Doug

[pellinore]

45 minutes ago, Doug1066 said:

To some, the Golden Rule is what nuns used to hit them with in Catholic school.  To others, it is an ideal to live by.

However, there are some practical limitations:

1.  Door knocking Christians fail to understand that some people don't want to be bothered with their religion.  How many doors slammed in their faces does it take to make them understand that these folks don't want to be done unto?

2.  A judge sentencing a prisoner cannot simultaneously sentence someone and apply the Golden Rule, unless of course, that judge wants to do time.

3.  Most people do not take pleasure from pain.  But some do.  They're called masochists.

4.  Genital mutilation of children (male and female).  How many people who support these practices would want somebody cutting on them?

5.  If I see someone I would like to have sex with, should I just go over and start having sex with them, even if they don't want to?  The Golden Rule is justification for rape.

 

Should we really "do unto others as we would have them do unto us?"

Doug

I don't think any of the examples you have given have anything to do with the Golden Rule.

[XenoFish]

Guess people forget there is also a silver rule. Which compliments the golden rule. Both are applied on a individual level. 

And I agree with pellinore, none of your example fit. 

[cormac mac airt]

The Golden Rule being not so golden can just as well be used as an excuse to allow anyone/everyone to do as they please with no repercussions. 
 

cormac

[XenoFish]

I'm going to break this down before I go eat lunch.

1) That's up to the Joe's witnesses to decided. Once they're off my porch, I do not care. Doesn't mean I have to be rude (golden rule applied) to them. Just a simple no thanks works. 

2) If you're following the gold and silver rule you won't at least shouldn't, be in front of a judge. The judge applies the laws. That's all. Golden rule isn't applicable. 

3) 

4) That seems more along the lines of a personal question.....

5) I think you're also missing the silver rule, which is "don't do to others that which you wouldn't want done to you."

Both rules work together. And applying them is an individual judgement. I don't want to get punched in the face so I don't start fights (silver rule). I try to treat people well whenever I can. (golden rule). I think the issue is trying to apply the concepts on a macro-scale instead of the individual micro-scale. 

Edit: Seems to me what you actually addressing is the Iron Rule or "Might makes right".

Edited September 27, 2023 by XenoFish

[Hawken]

I've heard where whoever has the gold makes the rules.

[eight bits]

1 hour ago, Doug1066 said:

To some, the Golden Rule is what nuns used to hit them with in Catholic school.  To others, it is an ideal to live by.

Which of the "practical limitations" you detail has anything to do with Roman Catholicism?

Why are Catholic schools, and Catholic religious women, singled out as places and people who promote a Golden Rule?

[Doug1066]

2 hours ago, cormac mac airt said:

The Golden Rule being not so golden can just as well be used as an excuse to allow anyone/everyone to do as they please with no repercussions. 
 

cormac

You got the point.

Doug

[Doug1066]

2 hours ago, eight bits said:

Which of the "practical limitations" you detail has anything to do with Roman Catholicism?

Why are Catholic schools, and Catholic religious women, singled out as places and people who promote a Golden Rule?

Nothing against Catholics in general, but how would you like your knuckles rapped?  Is the nun applying it following the Golden Rule?

Meting out punishment of any kind is not an application of the Golden Rule.

Doug

[Abramelin]

I was tought by friars, "brothers", in primary school.

Glad to say I broke the jaw of one of them blackrobes when I paid him a visit when I was 25 years old.

Never felt better in my life.

Fkg perverts.

[eight bits]

1 hour ago, Doug1066 said:

Nothing against Catholics in general, but how would you like your knuckles rapped?  Is the nun applying it following the Golden Rule?

I wouldn't like it. However, well into the last century Boston public schools (you know Boston, Athens of America, Cradle of Liberty, Where America Began ... that Boston) also used "corporal punishment." It's legal elsewhere in the land of the free and the home of the brave:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5766273/

Quote

Meting out punishment of any kind is not an application of the Golden Rule.

You're a scientist, so let me speak plainly. The Golden Rule is a heuristic. Neither it nor its proponents claim that it provides infallible comprehensive advice for proper behavior in all situations. It does, however, provide good advice in the preponderance of ordinary situations, and is especially useful when there is little or no further information about the other persons in a transaction, and when the moral agent has no affirmative obligations to behave otherwise (e.g. a judge who has sworn to uphold the law). It also "degrades gracefully" (e.g. the occasional masochist whom I might mistreat by showing kindness can explain the true situation to me, and I can mend my ways promptly and ... oh, I don't know, ... rap their knuckles?). Following the heuristic, I am very unlikely to do irreparable harm.

It is an interesting and possibly discussable question which contributes more to human well-being: a brief, easily remembered, and intuitive maxim or a lengthy, detailed, but more nuanced volume of rules? A case could even be made that there is room for both in ethics and morality.

Personally, I am fond of the heuristic featured in Dan Aykroyd's Doctor Detroit film: Virtue is to do more than is required, but less than is allowed. But that's another thread.

[Doug1066]

1 hour ago, eight bits said:

The Golden Rule is a heuristic. Neither it nor its proponents claim that it provides infallible comprehensive advice for proper behavior in all situations.

That is exactly what an article in Free Inquiry said (October/November 2023).  It's where I got the idea for the post.

Doug

[Gecks]

On 9/27/2023 at 11:49 PM, Doug1066 said:

To some, the Golden Rule is what nuns used to hit them with in Catholic school.  To others, it is an ideal to live by.

However, there are some practical limitations:

1.  Door knocking Christians fail to understand that some people don't want to be bothered with their religion.  How many doors slammed in their faces does it take to make them understand that these folks don't want to be done unto?

2.  A judge sentencing a prisoner cannot simultaneously sentence someone and apply the Golden Rule, unless of course, that judge wants to do time.

3.  Most people do not take pleasure from pain.  But some do.  They're called masochists.

4.  Genital mutilation of children (male and female).  How many people who support these practices would want somebody cutting on them?

5.  If I see someone I would like to have sex with, should I just go over and start having sex with them, even if they don't want to?  The Golden Rule is justification for rape.

 

Should we really "do unto others as we would have them do unto us?"

Doug

This is really shallow thinking on the idea of do unto others as you would have them do unto you. 

Firstly in its biblical context, it's an encompassing rule of the commandments. Love god and love your neighbour as yourself.

So don't steal from someone as you wouldn't like to be robbed. Don't commit adultery with another's wife because you wouldnt like another sleeping with your wife. Etc

 

Secondly Hillel said it better as 'That which is hateful to you do not do to your fellow man'. 

So it boils down to dont do things that hurt others.

Lets say it again

Dont do things that hurt others. 

 

Lets look at your list..

1) Door knocking christians annoy me to, but theyre trying to extend their belief of salvation to you which they believe they would want someone to do to them. Its annoying but it's not hurting you. Now when you tell them 'no thankyou' theyre response under the rule should be to leave you alone and not annoy you further as they wouldnt want someone on their doorstep belting away either.

 

2)XenoFish said this pretty well. A judge sentencing a criminal has nothing to do with the golden rule and how you treat others. If that judge is jailing a murderer or rapist so they cannot hurt others in society is that not a positive thing? 

 

3)The rule is not apply your twisted fetish onto others because you like it. Pain is not pleasant for regular people. 

4)Genital mutilation of children is not and will never be ok and those advocating for it would not like to have their own genitals mutilated so it's not applying the rule anyway. This is adults with twisted perceptions of reality brainwashing kids because theyre vulnerable. 

5) How is the golden rule justification for rape? Again it is not carry out your twisted fetish because you like it. Do you want some huge burley bloke to jump out the bushes when youre walking alone and hold you down and rape you? Because by the logic of your comment he wants to so its ok.

That would hurt you so thats not ok for him/ or her to do. 

 

You seem to be confusing the golden rule of dont hurt others with 'do whatever you like to others because if you like it, its ok'. 

Imagine a world where people actually did follow those commandments.

No one stole today, no one cheated on their partners, no one was murdered. It wouldn't be a bad thing. 

 

Cheers

Edited September 28, 2023 by Gecks

[ReadTheGreatControversyEGW]

On 9/27/2023 at 8:49 AM, Doug1066 said:

1.  Door knocking Christians fail to understand that some people don't want to be bothered with their religion.  How many doors slammed in their faces does it take to make them understand that these folks don't want to be done unto?

The golden rule is doing for others what you would have them do for you. It doesn't conflict for a door knocker. They are doing what they would want you do for them if you were in their place. They are offering something worth more than anything in this world. And they believe you would want it too, if you could see its value. 

[ReadTheGreatControversyEGW]

On 9/27/2023 at 8:49 AM, Doug1066 said:

2.  A judge sentencing a prisoner cannot simultaneously sentence someone and apply the Golden Rule, unless of course, that judge wants to do time.

An honest, magnanimous judge would be applying the golden rule by sentencing the person, because they would want themselves to be sentenced in like manner if they committed the same crime. 

God sentenced and took the sentence on Himself (so His children don't have to bear it and be gone forever). Sentence and golden rule in one. 

*2 Samuel 14:14. 

https://biblehub.com/2_samuel/14-14.htm

 

[ReadTheGreatControversyEGW]

On 9/27/2023 at 8:49 AM, Doug1066 said:

3.  Most people do not take pleasure from pain.  But some do.  They're called masochists.

So doing for someone else what you would have them do for you is painful? Then why are you doing it? It clearly isn't something you would want them to do for you. 

Edit: Another way to look at your statement...--> 

The masochist would not want to do something to someone who isn't receptive, if he was applying the golden rule. He likes the pain supposedly. He would not welcome someone else doing that to him if he didn't like it, and so he would avoid doing the same to someone who does not welcome his behavior. 

The reason why he has pain inflicted on him is because he supposedly likes it. If he didn't like it, he would not want it to be done to him. So he would still be able to apply the golden rule in his horrible activities. 

Edited September 29, 2023 by ReadTheGreatControversyEGW

[ReadTheGreatControversyEGW]

On 9/27/2023 at 8:49 AM, Doug1066 said:

4.  Genital mutilation of children (male and female).  How many people who support these practices would want somebody cutting on them?

Not a Christian practice - can't comment on that one. 

[ReadTheGreatControversyEGW]

On 9/27/2023 at 8:49 AM, Doug1066 said:

5.  If I see someone I would like to have sex with, should I just go over and start having sex with them, even if they don't want to?  The Golden Rule is justification for rape.

How could it be? Since the perpetrator would definitely not want to be treated in a way that he don't approve of... i.e. someone else he finds utterly repulsive doing the same thing to him. 

[spartan max2]

I try to do the to each their own as long as you're not hurting someone else rule.

[ReadTheGreatControversyEGW]

On 9/27/2023 at 8:49 AM, Doug1066 said:

Should we really "do unto others as we would have them do unto us?"

Yes the world would be a happier place. If of course, all that we do to others is indeed what we truly wanted to be done to us in return. Do you truly want someone else to jump before you and almost break check you because you're going too slow? Lol no not truly. 

[eight bits]

1 hour ago, ReadTheGreatControversyEGW said:

The golden rule is doing for others what you would have them do for you. It doesn't conflict for a door knocker. They are doing what they would want you do for them if you were in their place. They are offering something worth more than anything in this world. And they believe you would want it too, if you could see its value. 

I guess knocking on strangers' doors has a special meaning for you .

But yeah, this is a neat illustration of why the Golden Rule is only a heuristic: it only gives good advice sometimes, but useful all the same, especially since when it gives bad advice, only rarely is the harm grievous.

Edited September 29, 2023 by eight bits

[Piney]

2 hours ago, ReadTheGreatControversyEGW said:

An honest, magnanimous judge would be applying the golden rule by sentencing the person, because they would want themselves to be sentenced in like manner if they committed the same crime. 

God sentenced and took the sentence on Himself (so His children don't have to bear it and be gone forever). Sentence and golden rule in one. 

*2 Samuel 14:14. 

https://biblehub.com/2_samuel/14-14.htm

 

?????

The verse talks about David's exile of Absalom and the woman of Tekoa pleading his cause.

"We are all mortal; we are like water spilt on the ground, which cannot be gathered up again, nor does God raise up a corpse; let the king therefore make plans for his banished son not to remain far away from him in exile." 

Edited September 30, 2023 by Piney
The End Times is for hopeless losers

[+joc]

I personally like the late great Bruce Lee's philosophy the best.  Be water my friend.  You pour water into a teapot, it becomes the teapot.  Pour the water into a glass it becomes the glass.  Water can flow, and water can crash...be water my friend.

If you want me to be nice to you, be nice to me.  If you want me to be an *******, treat me like an *******.  If you want me to help you, ask.  I probably will.  But I might not.  It's my prerogative.   

The real golden rule is just the reverse of that.  If I want you to be nice to me, I should be nice to you.  If I am not, then I have by my own actions created an *******.  That is all.

[SHaYap]

2 minutes ago, joc said:

I personally like the late great Bruce Lee's philosophy the best. 

Bruce was no philosopher, he's an actor, pretender and self promoting salesman designed to fool the western society of his day for personal popularity and gain. 

~

[+joc]

28 minutes ago, SHaYap said:

Bruce was no philosopher, he's an actor, pretender and self promoting salesman designed to fool the western society of his day for personal popularity and gain. 

~