Why "osiris" Didn't Exist Before The 5th Dynasty.

[Kenemet]

27 minutes ago, cladking said:

No!  Ancient Language speakers were NEITHER human NOR superior.  They were perceived as superior by early homo omnisciencis who called them "Nephilim" but these early people were incorrect about being inferior to them. 

Ohboy.  We're way in the weeds here.  So... nonhumans, eh?  That really borks up your ideas and makes it boil down to "Aliens Did It to the Pyramid Texts!"  

I'm gonna go with "nah."

And you protest that it's not racist... and then double down on the exclusivity to bloodline/species (although it's clear you don't know what a species is) ... and in spite of there not being any skeletons/DNA to prove your race of aliens among humans.

Frankly, you did better with geysers.

[Wepwawet]

58 minutes ago, cladking said:

 

There was a written language but it is not translatable.  The PT is written in this language.  

Can you say then what language image 1 is written in, and what language image 2 is written in.

 

[cladking]

1 minute ago, Kenemet said:

Ohboy.  We're way in the weeds here.  So... nonhumans, eh?  That really borks up your ideas and makes it boil down to "Aliens Did It to the Pyramid Texts!"  

Jeesh.  Homo sapiens were not aliens.  They were similar to proto-humans which arose 2 1/2 million years ago but lacked complex language which is what creates "humans".  Complex language creates "humans" by allowing knowledge to accumulate over the generations.  Every bird has to learn about the world from square one but "humans" have parents, teachers, and giants from the past to help them.  "Humans" stand on the shoulders of giants.  

The original complex language was an elaboration on the language of proto-humans.  Proto-humans had simple language and every individual had to start at square one.  Homo sapiens came about when a mutation allowed the invention of complex language.  They went extinct when the nature of language changed in 2000 BC.  They went extinct when pidgin language became the official language.  

No aliens and no magic.  No incantation.  Superstition and belief make people WEAK and lead to DEATH they do not make people strong and wise.  That ancient people were strong because of superstition is just an old wives' tale, a superstition. 

10 minutes ago, Kenemet said:

Frankly, you did better with geysers.

Geysers don't go away when you stop thinking of them.  Andernacht is still tossing inundations even as we sleep or look at other things.  Reality doesn't care about opinion or attention.  

[Piney]

23 minutes ago, cladking said:

Jeesh.  Homo sapiens were not aliens.  They were similar to proto-humans which arose 2 1/2 million years ago but lacked complex language which is what creates "humans".  Complex language creates "humans" by allowing knowledge to accumulate over the generations.  Every bird has to learn about the world from square one but "humans" have parents, teachers, and giants from the past to help them.  "Humans" stand on the shoulders of giants.  

The original complex language was an elaboration on the language of proto-humans.  Proto-humans had simple language and every individual had to start at square one.  Homo sapiens came about when a mutation allowed the invention of complex language.  They went extinct when the nature of language changed in 2000 BC.  They went extinct when pidgin language became the official language.  

No aliens and no magic.  No incantation.  Superstition and belief make people WEAK and lead to DEATH they do not make people strong and wise.  That ancient people were strong because of superstition is just an old wives' tale, a superstition. 

Geysers don't go away when you stop thinking of them.  Andernacht is still tossing inundations even as we sleep or look at other things.  Reality doesn't care about opinion or attention.  

Let me correct you here.

Hunter-gatherer languages are more complexed because they had to bend to nature and manipulate it where and when they could. It also gave them a lot of time to think.

What you call "superstition" is the personification of nature and human nature so as to preserve and protect the next generation and keep them following the rules of nature in order to survive.

Being "primitive" is only living as part of a ecosystem and knowing where and when you can make changes in order to preserve the ecosystem yet use it to the utmost advantage. 

It takes a LOT more thinking than stacking rocks.

And @Kenemet is right. Your uneducated ideas are racist as hell.

 

 

 

[cormac mac airt]

1 hour ago, cladking said:

Homo sapiens were not aliens.  They were similar to proto-humans which arose 2 1/2 million years ago but lacked complex language which is what creates "humans". 

All of which is BS. Homo sapiens, which date circa 300,000 BP are far closer to our subspecies Homo sapiens sapiens than to the Australopithecines 2.5 million years ago, both in body build and genetics. Even a part of the oldest physical language apparatus, the hyoid bone, dates to at least 60,000 BP which is obviously well before your fictitious 2000 BC claim. 
 

cormac

[XenoFish]

1 hour ago, cladking said:

Superstition and belief make people WEAK and lead to DEATH they do not make people strong and wise.  That ancient people were strong because of superstition is just an old wives' tale, a superstition. 

So the fear of a monster in the dark is weak. I can't help but think that "black cats are bad luck" was born out of feline predators munching on us. Even magic was born from an early attempt to understand cause and effect, which later on birthed science. The magic herbs and potions are primitive chemistry. They didn't know fully how one plant could cure and the other kill. The tribal Shaman performing a ritual to the tribes hunter god might give the young hunters the right amount of confidence.

[cladking]

28 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Even magic was born from an early attempt to understand cause and effect, which later on birthed science. The magic herbs and potions are primitive chemistry. They didn't know fully how one plant could cure and the other kill. The tribal Shaman performing a ritual to the tribes hunter god might give the young hunters the right amount of confidence.

You may well be right but I wager these things apply to our species and not to homo sapiens. Their science and chemistry were different than ours but were not "magical" and involved no belief or incantation. 

[cladking]

1 hour ago, cormac mac airt said:

Even a part of the oldest physical language apparatus, the hyoid bone, dates to at least 60,000 BP which is obviously well before your fictitious 2000 BC claim. 

Again.  I maintain it is complex language which creates human progress and not the collapse of Ancient Language which defined our predecessor species.  

I don't know of a simpler way to say any of this.  

[XenoFish]

5 minutes ago, cladking said:

You may well be right but I wager these things apply to our species and not to homo sapiens. Their science and chemistry were different than ours but were not "magical" and involved no belief or incantation. 

So aliens.

[cormac mac airt]

6 minutes ago, cladking said:

Again.  I maintain it is complex language which creates human progress and not the collapse of Ancient Language which defined our predecessor species.  

I don't know of a simpler way to say any of this.  

And I maintain that you are hopelessly incompetent and know nothing meaningful about the origins of human language in general nor the AE language specifically, as attested by your 15+ year round of making crap up as you go along. As the evidence supports my view it’s time to move on. 
 

cormac

[cormac mac airt]

17 minutes ago, cladking said:

You may well be right but I wager these things apply to our species and not to homo sapiens. Their science and chemistry were different than ours but were not "magical" and involved no belief or incantation. 

That’s an asinine thing to say as we are Homo sapiens. 
 

cormac

[cladking]

4 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

That’s an asinine thing to say as we are Homo sapiens. 
 

 

And you know this because you are homo omnisciencis.  Homo omnisciencis means "all knowing man".   Since this is your species it follows you know that no speciation event happened after atum became osiris.  Of course you know the pyramid builders were homo sapiens and not aliens. 

Truly remarkable.  Kudos on missing every point. Kudos on knowing everything. 

[cormac mac airt]

3 minutes ago, cladking said:

And you know this because you are homo omnisciencis.  Homo omnisciencis means "all knowing man".   Since this is your species it follows you know that no speciation event happened after atum became osiris.  Of course you know the pyramid builders were homo sapiens and not aliens. 

Truly remarkable.  Kudos on missing every point. Kudos on knowing everything. 

Nope I know this because we, as Homo sapiens sapiens, ARE A SUBSPECIES of Homo sapiens. Homo sapiens sapiens (US) date to as early as circa 100,000 BP which is about the time we reached both behavioral modernity AND achieved modern cranial morphology. 
 

cormac

[cladking]

12 hours ago, cormac mac airt said:

Nope I know this because we, as Homo sapiens sapiens, ARE A SUBSPECIES of Homo sapiens. Homo sapiens sapiens (US) date to as early as circa 100,000 BP which is about the time we reached both behavioral modernity AND achieved modern cranial morphology. 

And I'm telling you there are other ways to interpret the exact same evidence. It may be complex language that created humanity and a totally different brain can fit in the exact same cranium. Indeed, the largest difference is merely that a second speech center arose. Now it's very hard to even see that osiris is dead atum because we can't think like the people who invented atum or osiris. 

[cormac mac airt]

54 minutes ago, cladking said:

And I'm telling you there are other ways to interpret the exact same evidence. It may be complex language that created humanity and a totally different brain can fit in the exact same cranium. Indeed, the largest difference is merely that a second speech center arose. Now it's very hard to even see that osiris is dead atum because we can't think like the people who invented atum or osiris. 

Yeah, yours is called BS, we hear that from you all the time. Nobody is buying it. 
 

cormac

[Trelane]

2 hours ago, cladking said:

And I'm telling you there are other ways to interpret the exact same evidence. It may be complex language that created humanity and a totally different brain can fit in the exact same cranium. Indeed, the largest difference is merely that a second speech center arose. Now it's very hard to even see that osiris is dead atum because we can't think like the people who invented atum or osiris. 

A different brain you say? Like one made of cheese? or a brain made out of play-doh? The kind of brain that sputters nonsense and is repeatedly shown how wrong they are but they continue to babble on on about rubbish? Interesting.....tell me more.

Edited October 31, 2023 by Trelane

[Wepwawet]

2 hours ago, cladking said:

osiris is dead atum

How then do you explain that Atum is very much alive through all the thousands of years AE culture existed. What evidence do you have to prove that Osiris is the dead Atum, which texts can you present.

Speaking of texts, there are two posts of mine where I have asked you some questions, I'm sure you know which ones, so, any answers.

[cormac mac airt]

4 hours ago, cladking said:

And I'm telling you there are other ways to interpret the exact same evidence. It may be complex language that created humanity and a totally different brain can fit in the exact same cranium. Indeed, the largest difference is merely that a second speech center arose. Now it's very hard to even see that osiris is dead atum because we can't think like the people who invented atum or osiris. 

With Homo sapiens dating to circa 300,000 BP, Omo Kibish (Homo sapiens) to circa 233,000 BP with modern Y Chromosome and Mitochondrial DNA origins being roughly contemporary with same, Herto remains (Homo sapiens Idaltu) to circa 160,000 BP, Homo sapiens sapiens (Us) to circa 100,000 BP at the earliest and contemporary or nearly so with behavioural modernity and modern cranial morphology, the earliest hyoid bone from circa 60,000 BP, the necessity for the existence of language during the Out-of-Africa phase roughly contemporary to the hyoid bone and the earliest modern (Hss) genetic evidence dating to circa 45,000 BP there is ZERO evidence of your fabricated mutation either being necessary or having occurred. 

Yours isn't an interpretation, it's garbage. 

cormac

[cladking]

3 hours ago, Trelane said:

A different brain you say? Like one made of cheese? or a brain made out of play-doh? The kind of brain that sputters nonsense and is repeatedly shown how wrong they are but they continue to babble on on about rubbish? Interesting.....tell me more.

All life, all brains, all consciousness lives operates and thinks in four dimensions.  Every part of the entire brain/ body is  the consciousness so life doesn't really "think" at all.  Homo omnisciencis is different.  We are the odd man out because our second speech center that each of us develops in undifferentiated brain tissue operates the brain.  Before the so called Tower of Babel humans were exactly like other animals and could not experience thought.  This is why they had no word for "thought".  Our word for thought may well have come from the scientific word for "human progress" that we mistranslate as the God "Thot". 

This really isn't complicated but people choose to not pay attention.  

We can't even imagine that language changed and simply dismiss ancient sources that say it did.  we can't imagine a language that can't be translated so when we're told it's all just magical incantation and religion we foolishly believe it.  No matter how much I prove my theory it is dismissed.  Even the discovery of the Nurse Canal this year has no effect on people.  I knew it was there. I predicted it was there.  I knew a infrared scan would show it.  i campaigned for many years to do an infrared scan to show the canal.  Now they found the canal as well as the other spots I predicted and here we are.  People can't even believe the literal meaning of what the great pyramid builders actually said!!!  Now I'll tell you flat out there's vaterite in the Nurse Canal and copper hydroxide all over the north side but when it's found people will act as though it's a lucky guess.  Real science makes accurate predictions and Egyptology has never made any accurate predictions. You make predictions studying gobbledty gook and this is exactly what Egyptology is trying to do.  

[cladking]

3 hours ago, Wepwawet said:

How then do you explain that Atum is very much alive through all the thousands of years AE culture existed. What evidence do you have to prove that Osiris is the dead Atum, which texts can you present.

"Osiris" as I already showed was being written into the PT with our copy that dates to only the 5th dynasty.  If we had earlier copies it would always say "atum N".  

Atum was always the creator God whom created himself.  He will always be.  He built the great  pyramids.  

3 hours ago, Wepwawet said:

Speaking of texts, there are two posts of mine where I have asked you some questions, I'm sure you know which ones, so, any answers.

I said "I've begun to translate the language".  I'm way ahead of everyone else but I'm not very good at it yet.  Just because I know far more than any Egyptologist in the world doesn't mean I can translate an untranslatable language.  I'm, one man, not a miracle worker.  

[cladking]

1 hour ago, cormac mac airt said:

With Homo sapiens dating to circa 300,000 BP, Omo Kibish (Homo sapiens) to circa 233,000 BP with modern Y Chromosome and Mitochondrial DNA origins being roughly contemporary with same, Herto remains (Homo sapiens Idaltu) to circa 160,000 BP, Homo sapiens sapiens (Us) to circa 100,000 BP at the earliest and contemporary or nearly so with behavioural modernity and modern cranial morphology, the earliest hyoid bone from circa 60,000 BP, the necessity for the existence of language during the Out-of-Africa phase roughly contemporary to the hyoid bone and the earliest modern (Hss) genetic evidence dating to circa 45,000 BP there is ZERO evidence of your fabricated mutation either being necessary or having occurred. 

Yours isn't an interpretation, it's garbage. 

So?  You know a great deal more about these things than I do.  But the fact is you have no evidence of any sort that contradicts a single part of my theory.  Pushing the date of the mutation allowing complex language back another 20,000 years has no effect on my theory even if you're right. It is impossible to show that any brain from before 3200 BC lacked a broccas area.  It is impossible to show there was no universal metaphysical language.  There's a simple reason there isn'rt more evidence; history didn't really start until after language changed and this is one f the best pieces of evidence I'm right!!!!!  

Of course there'd be evidence aplenty I'm right if Egyptologists actually applied modern science in a systematic methodology to understanding ancient artefacts.  Are you aware there is technology from the 1880's that could have been used to show how the pyramid was built and it has never been published.  This is shameful.  Shame on them. 

[Antigonos]

8 minutes ago, cladking said:

 Just because I know far more than any Egyptologist in the world 

Keep away from sharp objects and seek help immediately.

 I’m serious. I used to think you were just stupid, a fraud and a bull**** artist, but now I genuinely believe you are mentally ill.

Edited October 31, 2023 by Antigonos

[cladking]

deleted

 

It is against my policy to respond at all to personal attacks. So post suggesting that I was misquoted has been deleted.  

Edited October 31, 2023 by cladking

[cormac mac airt]

2 minutes ago, cladking said:

Pushing the date of the mutation allowing complex language back another 20,000 years has no effect on my theory even if you're right.

It is impossible to show that any brain from before 3200 BC lacked a broccas area. 

There is ZERO evidence of any such mutation. 
 

The Broca’s area IS NOT solely responsible for language so you don’t have a point. 
 

cormac

[cormac mac airt]

19 minutes ago, Antigonos said:

Keep away from sharp objects and seek help immediately.

 I’m serious. I used to think you were just stupid, a fraud and a bull**** artist, but I genuinely now believe you are mentally ill.

Many of us believe that’s true. He needs help. 
 

cormac