One in five Britons insist their home is haunted

[XenoFish]

14 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

And what I see is an unfair characterization of PG from one too negative to the likelihood of the paranormal in many cases. Nothing personal. Who's right? We are each our own judge on that one.

We can only go by you. Over the years you've more than assumed things were always to some higher than normal degree, paranormal. 

[papageorge1]

Just now, XenoFish said:

We can only go by you. Over the years you've more than assumed things were always to some higher than normal degree, paranormal. 

My point was who is judging that it is a ‘higher than normal’ degree as opposed to a ‘reasonable’ degree?  Who is our official judge? No one.

 

[XenoFish]

Just now, papageorge1 said:

Who is our official judge?

You seem to be. You're the only one I have know to throw a percent on paranormal and supernatural claims. Like its an expert opinion. Plus it seem to be easy for you to dismiss any opinion that doesn't conform to your notion of what you believe. 

[Antigonos]

1 hour ago, papageorge1 said:

And what I see is an unfair characterization of PG from one too negative to the likelihood of the paranormal in many cases.

If this is what you think, you’re either incapable or unwilling to understand what my position is. Not to mention NOT reading any of my many posts. In fact Papa, what is anyone’s individual thoughts on this subject? Do you even care? Have you ever attempted to try to understand what anybody else who posts here’s position is? It’s actually rude. We all know what your position is, you’re constantly making it clear. Many others here have a more nuanced outlook.

understand this subject far better than you do and have read far more widely than you have, two other things that come across very clearly in your posts.

My attitude is far more respectful, protective and tolerant of the possibility of the reality of these phenomena than yours is, because I loathe hoaxers and don’t blindly accept every story that comes along. The most passionate paranormal researchers were relentless in exposing hoaxes because they hated how they damaged the ultimate credibility of the field. For all of your alleged “reading” about the paranormal that you have done,  that fact mysteriously  seems to have escaped you.

 The fact that you can’t understand that you can believe some of these phenomena are real yet still reject hoaxes is very telling. It reveals how one dimensional your thinking process about the paranormal really is.
 

What is this manic need you have to embrace hoaxes and defend the hoaxers? To you, anybody who doesn’t blindly accept every tale that comes along as real is an “unbeliever” in these phenomena. You have no set of standards, everything is legitimate to you or automatically deserves the benefit of the doubt. What happened to extraordinary claims requiring extraordinary evidence? If the evidence is strong enough it will stand up to scrutiny. You either want no scrutiny or always have something negative to say about it.
 

You are not neutral no matter how many times you protest otherwise when called out on it. You’re deliberately credulous. This is nothing less than a belief system for you. Just admit you’re a full blown believer already and drop the pretense. At least then you’ll be intellectually honest with everyone here not to mention yourself.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 30, 2023 by Antigonos

[papageorge1]

2 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

You seem to be. You're the only one I have know to throw a percent on paranormal and supernatural claims. Like its an expert opinion. Plus it seem to be easy for you to dismiss any opinion that doesn't conform to your notion of what you believe. 

What’s wrong with a personal estimate of likelihood all things considered. It is the best way to approach an unexplained mystery as opposed to taking a definite certain position with mock bravado.

I fairly consider all opinions.

[XenoFish]

1 minute ago, papageorge1 said:

I fairly consider all opinions.

That the crux of the issue. You do not. You claim you do, but you really don't. Others have tried to encourage you to be more critical, apply more thought and real research before the assumptions. We can't make you, can't change you. Just hope one day you will think. Good luck, PG. I'm bored so I'm moving on.

Just a suggestion. Never assume something is true until you've burned it to the ground and find the bone of it. Even if those bone do not agree with beliefs.

[papageorge1]

4 minutes ago, Antigonos said:

If this is what you think, you’re either incapable or unwilling to understand what my position is. I understand this subject far better than you do and have read far more widely than you have, two other things that come across very clearly in your posts.

My attitude is far more respectful, protective and tolerant of the possibility of the reality of these phenomena than yours is, because I loathe hoaxers and don’t blindly accept every story that comes along. The most passionate paranormal researchers were relentless in exposing hoaxes because they hated how they damaged the ultimate credibility of the field. For all of your alleged “reading” about the paranormal that you have done,  that fact mysteriously  seems to have escaped you.

 The fact that you can’t understand that you can believe some of these phenomena are real yet still reject hoaxes is very telling. It reveals how one dimensional your thinking process about the paranormal really is.
 

What is this manic need you have to embrace hoaxes and defend the hoaxers? To you, anybody who doesn’t blindly accept every hoax that comes along as real is an “unbeliever” in these phenomena. You have no set of standards, everything is legitimate to you or automatically deserves the benefit of the doubt. What happened to extraordinary claims requiring extraordinary evidence? If the evidence is strong enough it will stand up to scrutiny. You either want no scrutiny or always have something negative to say about it.
 

You are not neutral no matter how many times you protest otherwise when called out on it. Just admit you’re a full blown believer already and drop the pretense. At least then you’ll be intellectually honest with everyone here not to mention yourself.

My dislike of hoaxers is every bit as large as yours. They damage and confuse a serious subject.

I see a difference also between 'real hoaxing' and 'unproven claims of hoaxing'. I do believe many so-called skeptics will overly use the claim of hoaxing as that is just what they prefer to be the case. You'll probably accuse me of the opposite. Who is our official judge?

[Antigonos]

1 hour ago, XenoFish said:

 

Edited October 30, 2023 by Antigonos
duplicate

[Antigonos]

1 hour ago, papageorge1 said:

My dislike of hoaxers is every bit as large as yours. They damage and confuse a serious subject.

I see a difference also between 'real hoaxing' and 'unproven claims of hoaxing'. I do believe many so-called skeptics will overly use the claim of hoaxing as that is just what they prefer to be the case. You'll probably accuse me of the opposite. Who is our official judge?

Fair enough.

No accusations, and nothing personal as I said. It wasn’t my intention to offend you if I did. 

It’s a subject that obviously we are both passionate about. 

Edited October 30, 2023 by Antigonos

[TashaMarie]

On 10/30/2023 at 12:24 AM, openozy said:

You have to remember most people wouldn't talk about it in conversation for obvious reasons.

Look at what people are happy to share on social media do you really think people wouldn't talk about spooky things happening in their homes?

[openozy]

8 hours ago, TashaMarie said:

Look at what people are happy to share on social media do you really think people wouldn't talk about spooky things happening in their homes?

I see your point but I doubt the people that have to jibber constantly on facebook are very sensitive or aware people to begin with and probably wouldn't notice the truck that drove through their house let alone a paranormal entity, lol. The people that do are often quiet, sensitive types that usually keep things to themselves until questioned. I still believe most people will not admit this stuff due to social ridicule. I feel the number of homes affected is much higher than one in five.

[TashaMarie]

17 hours ago, openozy said:

I see your point but I doubt the people that have to jibber constantly on facebook are very sensitive or aware people to begin with and probably wouldn't notice the truck that drove through their house let alone a paranormal entity, lol. The people that do are often quiet, sensitive types that usually keep things to themselves until questioned. I still believe most people will not admit this stuff due to social ridicule. I feel the number of homes affected is much higher than one in five.

People who claim to have these experiences are no more special or sensitive than those who do not.  More suggestible, possibly but nothing more.  

[openozy]

5 hours ago, TashaMarie said:

People who claim to have these experiences are no more special or sensitive than those who do not.  More suggestible, possibly but nothing more.  

Yes they are more sensitive and not as self absorbed.

Edited November 1, 2023 by openozy

[XenoFish]

52 minutes ago, openozy said:

Yes they are more sensitive and not as self absorbed.

Sensitive to suggestibility. 

[openozy]

51 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Sensitive to suggestibility. 

Yeah, I'm not influenced by influencers, leave that to the facebook losers.

[+Liquid Gardens]

On 10/30/2023 at 5:26 PM, papageorge1 said:

I do believe many so-called skeptics will overly use the claim of hoaxing as that is just what they prefer to be the case.

But you clearly want the paranormal to exist also, you've many times mentioned, usually irrelevantly, that this all fits into your religious beliefs.  Almost everyone wants their religious beliefs to be true, so there's not much to support that you are truly being 'neutral' and there's reason to suspect you are not.

[XenoFish]

15 hours ago, openozy said:

Yeah, I'm not influenced by influencers, leave that to the facebook losers.

Doesn't matter, suggestion isn't isolated. It's memetic. An idea here or there. Something on TV, the internet, even hearsay. Subtle suggestions can become subconscious influences. No matter who you are this happens. 

[papageorge1]

1 hour ago, Liquid Gardens said:

But you clearly want the paranormal to exist also, you've many times mentioned, usually irrelevantly, that this all fits into your religious beliefs.  Almost everyone wants their religious beliefs to be true, so there's not much to support that you are truly being 'neutral' and there's reason to suspect you are not.

I will argue my spiritual beliefs are reason based and not faith based. I would even question if the word 'religion' is appropriate for people like me. I am not a member of any organization but find the philosophy of Advaita Vedanta (non-dual Hinduism) to make the greatest sense of this reality.

If the paranormal exists, and I believe the evidence strongly suggests it does, then there must be an explanation even if that explanation is beyond current mainstream science. That search for explanation is what eventually came to create my spiritual views.

So, I will argue my spiritual beliefs were stage two in the process. Your quote is trying to imply I started with a religion and then have a zealous desire to make the so-called paranormal fit that. I am saying I did not lead as a religious zealot.

[XenoFish]

18 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

I will argue my spiritual beliefs are reason based and not faith based. I would even question if the word 'religion' is appropriate for people like me. I am not a member of any organization but find the philosophy of Advaita Vedanta (non-dual Hinduism) to make the greatest sense of this reality.

If the paranormal exists, and I believe the evidence strongly suggests it does, then there must be an explanation even if that explanation is beyond current mainstream science. That search for explanation is what eventually came to create my spiritual views.

So, I will argue my spiritual beliefs were stage two in the process. Your quote is trying to imply I started with a religion and then have a zealous desire to make the so-called paranormal fit that. I am saying I did not lead as a religious zealot.

Your spiritual beliefs affect how you interpret paranormal claims. It's a mental filter.

[papageorge1]

1 minute ago, XenoFish said:

Your spiritual beliefs affect how you interpret paranormal claims. It's a mental filter.

Right, we must always work to consider with a fair mind and not let emotions get in the way. Probably nobody is perfect. But in my most honest moments I do feel I am on the right page.

[XenoFish]

Just now, papageorge1 said:

Right, we must always work to consider with a fair mind and not let emotions get in the way. Probably nobody is perfect. But in my most honest moments I do feel I am on the right page.

You feel that way because you're looking for information that confirms your beliefs. While ignoring other explanations and evidence that proves something isn't paranormal.

[papageorge1]

4 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

You feel that way because you're looking for information that confirms your beliefs. While ignoring other explanations and evidence that proves something isn't paranormal.

Not true. I do not ignore normal explanations. In the end I will typically give them considerable chance too on the Papameter.

 

Edited November 2, 2023 by papageorge1

[XenoFish]

9 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

Not true. I do not ignore normal explanations. In the end I will typically give them considerable chance too on the Papameter.

 

When is normally positive in favor of the paranormal. 

Beliefs shape perception PG. The paranormal is a belief. Those who believe in it on some level can and often do see the world through that lens. You can see this in the OP article. 

[papageorge1]

2 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

When is normally positive in favor of the paranormal. 

Beliefs shape perception PG. The paranormal is a belief. Those who believe in it on some level can and often do see the world through that lens. You can see this in the OP article. 

I will repeat what I said above:

Right, we must always work to consider with a fair mind and not let emotions get in the way. Probably nobody is perfect. But in my most honest moments I do feel I am on the right page.

Edited November 2, 2023 by papageorge1

[XenoFish]

Just now, papageorge1 said:

I will repeat what I said above:

Right, we must always work to consider with a fair mind and not let emotions get in the way. Probably nobody is perfect. But in my most honest moments I do feel I am on the right page.

Sure. Okay. Just don't get upset when you're proven wrong by someone. A claim is shown to be wrong or people question the validity of your opinions. 

I'm not even going to bother with you any longer.