The Cost of Illegal Immigrants

[caffene]

ok it is like talking to a monkey,but whatever. all u scary cats need to know is that u cant stop it,u can slow it down but u cant stop it, think of it as a small jab of karma. the upper cut is yet to come.

god bless those"illegal aliens"

[morpheas]

-Post removed-

Edited April 8, 2005 by morpheas

[__Kratos__]

ok my fellow americans, lets do a history lesson and go back 50 years. 50 years ago your government and the UK i might add, were implementing a military coup to overthrow the democratic government of iran, all because you greedily wanted their oil. now iran is in the state it is in, the people are starving, poverty is everywhere, what will you say to an iranian who is fleeing their theocratic government? sorry, no more allowed, you have to put up with the government you have, regardless of the fact you could be living under a democratic government if we hadnt poked our noses in. 

562877[/snapback]

We call those people "collateral damage". Sure, they should stick with their goverment and country to make it better. Look at the American Civil War. The south broke off and the north didn't like that much. We fought a bloody war just to bring up our goverment and country. Blaming the US for something we might have done over 50 years ago, has NOTHING to do with this topic.

[TheOriginalF]

The thing about this topic is that we all seem to be divided into two different camps; those who think we don't owe the Mexican citizens anything, and those who feel they have a right to live we ever they want regardless of the consequences. Both sides are equally valid, and both sides have their drawbacks.

Like it or not we do exist in a world community and we do have a responsiblity to our foreign neighbors. Just because they aren't American doesn't mean they aren't people, people in need of a hand that we north of the border should be able to give to them once in awhile. Let's knock off the whole us vs them mentality and start thinking of them the same way we would our own neighbors. Perhaps if we weren't so self involved and gave of ourselves a little bit more than the folks of Mexico wouldn't have a reason to crash the borders and come here. I've seen a lot of talk about "cleaning up our own backyard first", of course we need to take care of our own problems, but lets not forget that people outside of our borders are people too.

However on the flipside we only have so much room to spare. I think it's an unfair analogy to say that we have always been a destination for immigrants so there for everybody should be allowed to come here. 100 years ago we had the room to do that but unfortunately now that space doesn't exist and at some point we are going to have to close our doors or at the very least be realistic about who we let into US. I know the existence in other countries can be kind of crumby but if they all come here we are going to begin to damage what ever great things we have. The infrastructure of a country can only support so many people before it becomes a burden and perhaps ultimately brings down the system.

I think a reasonable solution would be to lend a hand when and where we can to help elevate the situations that make these countries undesirable in the first place. Perhaps if we lend a bit of a hand to help straighten out the govt of Mexico they may not be clamoring to come here as they are now.

As for immigration we have to make sure that those crossing the border have a viable reason to be here and aren't putting an undo burden on our system, it's harsh but in this day and age it's necessary.

[gsr]

Along with the two camps as you put it, we need to clarify that these are illegel immigrants not legal. Most on either side of the issue including myself, have no problem with legal immigration from anywhere. The problem is whether illegal immigrants should be treated with the same rignts and benifits as legal ones. Myself I think not. Why? Then the whole naturalization process breaks down. And due to budget limitations, local, state, and national governments will eventually be oevrrun by illegals pressurring the system in their direction.

I think you will find a similar chapter on this subject in The Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire.

[Babs]

There are alot of elements trying to drag our country down, I hope they don't succeed.

[__Kratos__]

Like it or not we do exist in a world community and we do have a responsiblity to our foreign neighbors. Just because they aren't American doesn't mean they aren't people, people in need of a hand that we north of the border should be able to give to them once in awhile. Let's knock off the whole us vs them mentality and start thinking of them the same way we would our own neighbors. Perhaps if we weren't so self involved and gave of ourselves a little bit more than the folks of Mexico wouldn't have a reason to crash the borders and come here. I've seen a lot of talk about "cleaning up our own backyard first", of course we need to take care of our own problems, but lets not forget that people outside of our borders are people too.

America already helps a lot of countries already. Heck, I even think we give money already to Mexico.

But some administrators question why the U.S. government would invest in Mexico while U.S. hospitals are struggling.

Source

Mexico, which received a $50 billion multilateral bailout thanks to U.S. urging in 1994, 8 received over $15 million in assistance from the United States in FY 1998. Nevertheless, Mexico voted against the United States 67 percent of the time in the 53rd Session. Indeed, Mexico received over $56 million in bilateral U.S. economic assistance between 1993 and 1998, yet it voted against the United States an average of 65 percent of the time over that period.

Source

All that money given to them. They may be people outside our borders, but once inside our borders, we call them illegal people. Notice the word "illegal". The word "illegal" makes them all criminals. Criminals are to be delt with to protect society. Society like being protected from criminals like, murders, rapists and illegal immigrants.

[TheOriginalF]

Like it or not we do exist in a world community and we do have a responsiblity to our foreign neighbors. Just because they aren't American doesn't mean they aren't people, people in need of a hand that we north of the border should be able to give to them once in awhile. Let's knock off the whole us vs them mentality and start thinking of them the same way we would our own neighbors. Perhaps if we weren't so self involved and gave of ourselves a little bit more than the folks of Mexico wouldn't have a reason to crash the borders and come here. I've seen a lot of talk about "cleaning up our own backyard first", of course we need to take care of our own problems, but lets not forget that people outside of our borders are people too.

America already helps a lot of countries already. Heck, I even think we give money already to Mexico.

But some administrators question why the U.S. government would invest in Mexico while U.S. hospitals are struggling.

Source

Mexico, which received a $50 billion multilateral bailout thanks to U.S. urging in 1994, 8 received over $15 million in assistance from the United States in FY 1998. Nevertheless, Mexico voted against the United States 67 percent of the time in the 53rd Session. Indeed, Mexico received over $56 million in bilateral U.S. economic assistance between 1993 and 1998, yet it voted against the United States an average of 65 percent of the time over that period.

Source

All that money given to them. They may be people outside our borders, but once inside our borders, we call them illegal people. Notice the word "illegal". The word "illegal" makes them all criminals. Criminals are to be delt with to protect society. Society like being protected from criminals like, murders, rapists and illegal immigrants.

564745[/snapback]

Yes we do give money to Mexico, but monetary help isn't the only thing that we should be doing. Throwing money at the problem does help eleviate the situation but it's not fixing the social problems facing Mexico. The US govt should be inserting it's power as a means of making Mexico fix it's problems with the poor. A good start would be to deny Mexico access to the FFTA unless it institutes a livable minimum wage, paying close attention to the US companies (because they most likely can pay a higher wage than most local businesses) sending jobs over the border to save money on the cost of labor. I know Mexico is in serious debt, but with the amount of businesses setting up shop there somebody should be regulating the situation to make sure that those who have a job are compensated well enough that they don't have to crash the borders to provided for their family. It will be slow going but these steps need to be taken if we want the illegal immigration problems to subside.

Huh? Just because somebody does something illegal doesn't mean they are no longer people who deserve to be treated with dignity and due process. I totally disagree with with illegal immigration, but at the same time, we can still treat these people with compassion and try to understand their problem. Understanding what makes people crash the border may be the key to stopping it.

Edited April 9, 2005 by TheOriginalF

[The Caspian Hare]

Fixing Mexico's economy is a tall order. We need solutions that can be implemented now.

I'll tell you what I think would put a dent in it:

You find a place where you suspect there are illegal immigrants being employed and shut down the business for a significant period of time(say, a month or so) while you investigate their hiring practices.

You'll find employers will become a lot more discriminating about who they hire. Fewer jobs for illegals will mean fewer illegals coming over for jobs. And after all, the people hiring them are as much a part of the problem as the illegals themselves.

The flip side of that is that you may end up hurting some Americans whose only crime was to hire an illegal immigrant.

[__Kratos__]

Fixing Mexico's economy is a tall order. We need solutions that can be implemented now.

I'll tell you what I think would put a dent in it:

You find a place where you suspect there are illegal immigrants being employed and shut down the business for a significant period of time(say, a month or so) while you investigate their hiring practices.

You'll find employers will become a lot more discriminating about who they hire. Fewer jobs for illegals will mean fewer illegals coming over for jobs. And after all, the people hiring them are as much a part of the problem as the illegals themselves.

The flip side of that is that you may end up hurting some Americans whose only crime was to hire an illegal immigrant.

565092[/snapback]

I like that idea. Wal-mart would be screwed in Texas!

Yes we do give money to Mexico, but monetary help isn't the only thing that we should be doing. Throwing money at the problem does help eleviate the situation but it's not fixing the social problems facing Mexico. The US govt should be inserting it's power as a means of making Mexico fix it's problems with the poor. A good start would be to deny Mexico access to the FFTA unless it institutes a livable minimum wage, paying close attention to the US companies (because they most likely can pay a higher wage than most local businesses) sending jobs over the border to save money on the cost of labor. I know Mexico is in serious debt, but with the amount of businesses setting up shop there somebody should be regulating the situation to make sure that those who have a job are compensated well enough that they don't have to crash the borders to provided for their family. It will be slow going but these steps need to be taken if we want the illegal immigration problems to subside.

O, so now America shouldn't focus most of its energy and resources TOWARDS America? What help we give is a favor to them. We shouldn't have to take on Mexico's problems. Mexico has to fix Mexico.

Huh? Just because somebody does something illegal doesn't mean they are no longer people who deserve to be treated with dignity and due process. I totally disagree with with illegal immigration, but at the same time, we can still treat these people with compassion and try to understand their problem. Understanding what makes people crash the border may be the key to stopping it.

Treat them nicely? For what? Stealing from America? Ok, lets put it this way. A man goes out and horribly rapes and kills a 14 year old girl. He is now a criminal. Should we respect him? Should we try and understand his reasoning and grant him respect and dignity? Lets say his reason was he was acting out a fantasy. Do you respect that man now? DO YOU WANT TO REASON WITH HIM?

[dmgspycat]

If you ask me...I think S. America should have had more balls and supporte Castro and Che Guevara when they all had a chance...but instead they cooed like little girls into the arms of those responsible for the Bay of Pigs! Those responsible were corporations who were making easy money paying off despotic regimes to keep it so, of course with the aid of the corporate intelligence agency...the lowest and most despicable agency ever on the face of the earth! This was about freedom and fairness and workers rights! But instead the American inner heirarchy worked against labor rights in S America and used their leaders as tools to stamp out the peoples rights!

American right-wing is what made Castro turn to the USSR to defend himself. They were raping his country! Still we enforce the embargo...corrupt! If Americans are so self serving as not to care for what happens to Cubans and S. Americans under brutal Corporate supported death squads and despotic dictators then she desrves to have these people force their way into our country to escape the Hell that WE created for them! You damned ignorant American hypocrites! Learn your damned history! Show EMPATHY!

[__Kratos__]

Show EMPATHY!

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Show emapthy for criminals that seek to steal from America? I think not. Its not the past we should be worrying about, its the present and future. They have no right coming into America illegally, no matter what the reason is. Its the fact that its being done ILLEGALLY. Criminals shouldn't be shown pity or respect because they broke the law. Laws are in society for a reason, they are not guildlines they are laws! You don't get to pick and choose which ones you want to follow and which ones you want to break.

[dmgspycat]

Show EMPATHY!

565182[/snapback]

Show emapthy for criminals that seek to steal from America? I think not. Its not the past we should be worrying about, its the present and future. They have no right coming into America illegally, no matter what the reason is. Its the fact that its being done ILLEGALLY. Criminals shouldn't be shown pity or respect because they broke the law. Laws are in society for a reason, they are not guildlines they are laws! You don't get to pick and choose which ones you want to follow and which ones you want to break.

565207[/snapback]

How dare you chastise someone trying to enter this country trying to earn their daily bread while you lay in luxury playing your X-Box drinking your beer and watching football lazing around like Jabba the Hut. You have absolutely NO perspective on HISTORY...NONE! And you think you are some kind of patriot?! You make me want to puke. That was the mentality of the Nazi's...you fail to see it is THIS countrys fault! How?

Chile, Guatemala(twice), Argentina, Columbia, Cuba...all replete with examples of the worst kind of criminal behavior...it is us the US who stole away the future of the S. American people by installing dictators over and over again and it was those brutal dictators that stole the wealth of the people along with the CIA and the Corporations that support the CIA...we were behind the right -wing death squads...we were behind the contras! Those people in Guatemala were eating off of trash dumps while Reagan sent missionaries there to assure them everything was gonna be alright just keep praying to Jesus....you would steal away these

peoples future by supporting such outrageous liars...It is us that is to blame! We created the problem through our greed now you would fix the problem by calling these poor immigrants criminals and jailing them? It is those in power reponsible for this outrage that should be Jailed...Reagan, Bush, Poindexter, Ollie North...grow up and read! There are more examples...United Fruit Co., ITT, Zapata Petroleum, Freeport Sulpher(now Freeport Mcmowran) etc...

Go post your smarmy right-wing crap on some republican website...oh excuse me...I mean "conservative"...where it will be warmly recieved...I won't stand for it and I will post how I feel about it as you can see.

Edited April 10, 2005 by dmgspycat

[__Kratos__]

^I would encourage everybody just to ignore that post. Stuff like that has no place on the forums.

Please Keep All Posts Civil In Nature!

[dmgspycat]

^I would encourage everybody just to ignore that post. Stuff like that has no place on the forums.

Please Keep All Posts Civil In Nature!

565291[/snapback]

You have no respect for rights of other unjustly wronged and it is your post that incites hatred towards immigrants that has NO place anywhere on this website! You lack history, perspective and empathy for others and I am angry that you would post something as wreckless as this. You offer No valid solution but hold the unjustly wronged party guilty.

[__Kratos__]

You have no respect for rights of other unjustly wronged and it is your post that incites hatred towards immigrants that has NO place anywhere on this website! You lack history, perspective and empathy for others and I am angry that you would post something as wreckless as this. You offer No valid solution but hold the unjustly wronged party guilty.

Hate for Illegal Immigrants mind you. Not legal immigrants. Didn't know I needed empathy to post... I mean posting is not a miss america contest. A valid solution is to hold the criminals responsible for breaking the law. Laws are in place for good reasons.

Edited April 10, 2005 by __Kratos__

[Magikman]

Everyone could be well advised to keep their opinions more respectful and civil, lets stay focused on arguing the merits of someone's stance instead of reacting 'emotionally' to their viewpoints. Anymore derogatory comments will successfully bring this discussion to an end.

MM

[dmgspycat]

Kratos, what has caused you to feel this way towards poor people unjustly put in these compromising positions? Just reverse the roles, put yourself in thier shoes...what would you do? Now reverse again...what can you do to help? Do you really want to call these mothers and fathers criminals simply because they were born into a world with no empathy or justice...no job...no money...

Why don't you try and look at it like why are they in that position in the first place...if it was OUR policies...then don't you think a good start is to STOP the unjust policies...no you don't have to open the borders...you might...but a good first step would be to stop corporate exploitation of their land by foriegn powers...it was us who took thier wealth...I think some kind of reparation is in store...don't you?

[dmgspycat]

ok my fellow americans, lets do a history lesson and go back 50 years. 50 years ago your government and the UK i might add, were implementing a military coup to overthrow the democratic government of iran, all because you greedily wanted their oil. now iran is in the state it is in, the people are starving, poverty is everywhere, what will you say to an iranian who is fleeing their theocratic government? sorry, no more allowed, you have to put up with the government you have, regardless of the fact you could be living under a democratic government if we hadnt poked our noses in. 

562877[/snapback]

Exactly my point. Well said.

[TheOriginalF]

O, so now America shouldn't focus most of its energy and resources TOWARDS America? What help we give is a favor to them. We shouldn't have to take on Mexico's problems. Mexico has to fix Mexico.

Treat them nicely? For what? Stealing from America? Ok, lets put it this way. A man goes out and horribly rapes and kills a 14 year old girl. He is now a criminal. Should we respect him? Should we try and understand his reasoning and grant him respect and dignity? Lets say his reason was he was acting out a fantasy. Do you respect that man now? DO YOU WANT TO REASON WITH HIM?

565119[/snapback]

Kratos;

When did I ever say America shouldn't be focusing energy and resources towards America? You seem to be missing the point here. Sure the things we do for Mexico are a favor but it's a favor that we wind up benefiting from in the long run. We should take on Mexico's problems because ultimately it will result in lowering the amount of illegal immigrants we have to deal with and benefit the US as a result. If Mexico is better off we will benefit from stronger more balanced trade relationships, less illegal immigration, and an overall stronger border along the southern hemisphere of the US. A stronger peso wouldn't hurt either because more Mexicans can come across the border and spend their money here in our stores. We live in a global community and the actions that one country takes generally have implications on those around them.

I never said treat them nicely (although in the case of illegal immigrants I don't see why we shouldn't, I said treat them with dignity and allow them due process. The example you provide is an unfair analogy, those crashing the border from Mexico aren't coming here to intentionally hurt you, they are coming here with hopes of bettering their own lives. A rapist isn't trying to better his own life or the lives of his family, chances are he's a deranged individual who as an undiagnosed mental illness. A better analogy would be to ask weather or not we should treat somebody who stole a loaf of bread to feed his family with dignity. There are different levels of criminal activity, you can't just treat every crime large and small with a blanket attitude. Petty theft is different from mass murder and should be treated as such.

As for the rapist, yes we should try to understand his reasoning because it will result in a better understanding of why he commited the crime and prehaps prevent future crimes of that nature from occuring. It's just like I said in an earlier post, if you try to understand the situation instead of just hating it you might be able to find a realistic solution.

Edited April 10, 2005 by TheOriginalF

[__Kratos__]

Here are some examples of the most common violations of United States Immigration laws:

Examples (not a complete list of violations):

" filing false statements on applications or petitions

" making a false claim that you are a United States citizen

" making, altering or using counterfeit immigration documents

" making, altering or using counterfeit documents to support immigration applications or petitions

" failing to report the arrival of illegal aliens

" assisting or encouraging aliens to come to the United States in violation of the law

" harboring an illegal alien

" knowingly employing aliens who do not have permission to work in the United States

" recruiting or referring for a fee aliens who do not have permission to work in the United States

" failing to complete and maintain immigration Form I-9 for all new employees, whether citizens or aliens

" failing to depart the United States when ordered removed (deported)

" entering or attempting to enter the United States at a time or place which is not authorized

" attempting to enter the United States by misrepresenting (lying about) material facts

" entering into a marriage to circumvent the immigration laws

" entering or attempting to enter the United States without permission after having been removed (deported)

" assisting an alien to enter the United States for prostitution or other immoral purposes

Source

Laws being broken by CRIMINALS.

      Illegal immigration has a huge negative impact upon America and contributes significantly to school overcrowding, health care crisis, highway congestion, wage depression, unemployment of citizens, and environmental degradation.

      Illegal employers deserve massively more scrutiny and enforcement to combat their employment of illegal workers.  Many employment laws such as the I-9 form were designed more to shield corporations from responsibility than to enforce immigration and labor laws for the protection of citizens and this must be corrected.  Illegal employers should be considered anti-American, otherwise they would be hiring Americans at a livable wage.

      Illegal immigration has resulted in mass lawlessness which creates an ominous double-standard where citizens are expected to obey the law but illegal aliens are not. 

      Immigration is an issue of limits and lawfulness, not of race and culture.  When immigration is viewed only racially and culturally, limits and legality will never be imposed.  The debate must focus on limitations and lawfulness, otherwise open borders will make the United States a marketplace and not a country.

      Illegal immigration is actually an issue of nationalism, not racism.  All countries have the right to protect its borders from those who enter illegally.  This means foreign nationals do not have the right to violate immigration laws.

      Violating U.S. immigration law is not a human right.  The United Nations state; “Every one has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country.”  The human rights proclamation provides global citizens the right of emigration and return to their home country but does not include the right to violate the immigration laws of the host country of their choice.

      Illegal aliens should return voluntarily to their home country.  Once in their home country foreigners can apply for residency via proper procedures. The American public increasingly is opposing amnesty and the likelihood of future amnesties is declining rapidly.

      Americans indeed should help global citizens, where they are at.  Americans need to address the root causes of migration including poverty, corruption and illiteracy, which will require significant changes in US foreign policy.  Immigration is not the solution to global problems.

      Illegal aliens are an exploited underclass.  The existence and condoning of this underclass is fundamentally against the principle of "All men are created equal" upon which America was founded.  Ending the exploitation of the illegal alien underclass will end only when politicians, media, and others truly oppose illegal immigration in word and deed.

Source

I agree. America can only do so much for other countries though. We may be one of the richest, but even that can only go so far.

In Los Angeles, 95 percent of all outstanding warrants for homicide (which total 1,200 to 1,500) target illegal aliens. Up to two-thirds of all fugitive felony warrants (17,000) are for illegal aliens.

In 2000, nearly 30 percent of federal prisoners were foreign-born.

Source

So much more crime from illegal immigrants. I mean they just can't stop themselves at breaking immigration laws, they need to go out and break more laws. Truely sad.

• A confidential California Department of Justice study reported in 1995 that 60 percent of the 20,000-strong 18th Street Gang in southern California is illegal; police officers say the proportion is actually much greater. The bloody gang collaborates with the Mexican Mafia, the dominant force in California prisons, on complex drug-distribution schemes, extortion, and drive-by assassinations, and commits an assault or robbery every day in L.A. County. The gang has grown dramatically over the last two decades by recruiting recently arrived youngsters, most of them illegal, from Central America and Mexico.

• The leadership of the Columbia Lil’ Cycos gang, which uses murder and racketeering to control the drug market around L.A.’s MacArthur Park, was about 60 percent illegal in 2002, says former assistant U.S. attorney Luis Li. Francisco Martinez, a Mexican Mafia member and an illegal alien, controlled the gang from prison, while serving time for felonious reentry following deportation.

Source

Even more crime on illegal immigrants. Believe me, it keeps on getting worse. All those poor people suffering and living in fear all over illegal immigrants. Why don't we ever think of them?

gang of five Mexicans—four of them illegal—abducted and brutally raped a 42-year-old mother of two near some railroad tracks in Queens.

Source

You know, its hard to think as illegal immigrants kindly with them doing this. Don't you feel deeply saddened by the fact that this lady of 2 kids was horribly attacked? Don't you wonder how that is going to affect her and her kids lifes?

The friend and six other men held the woman at the home for at least six hours and repeatedly raped her, Richardson said.

"It's not the victim's fault," Richardson said. "I believe people should be able to go where they want to go and be safe."

Huntersville police visited the home Sunday afternoon to collect evidence and found the men were in the country illegally.

Source

I believe people should be able to to anywhere and feel safe to. What those illegal immigrants did to that poor women is unspeakable and most sickening.

Two 16-year-old girls from New York City have been arrested on immigration charges after federal authorities said they planned to become suicide bombers, according to a published report.

Source

Illegal immigrants trying to kill Americans. Deeply disturbing.

Fresh from picking up dozens of illegal immigrants in Suffolk County for deportation because they'd been convicted of sex crimes, federal immigration officers have spread their net to neighboring Nassau.

About 85 percent of the convicted sex offenders victimized children, some as young as 9, said Salvatore Dalessandro, deputy special agent in charge of the New York office of the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

Source

That is just sick. They come to America to rape and molest innocent children. That just makes me sick to my stomach. Those poor kids being preyed on.

Authorities said the two men are illegal immigrants from Mexico, which has led to the involvement of federal immigration and customs officials.

Daniel Rodrigues Arriaga, 25, and Carlos Suarez, 18, are in jail for allegedly raping the young woman Wednesday night. Three additional suspects, however, are still on the loose.

Source

How many women need to suffer being raped by illegal immigrants?

MS-13, which stands for La Mara Salvatrucha, is an extremely violent organization with roots in El Salvador.

Among the most notorious local crimes attributed to MS-13 was the gang rape of two deaf girls, one 14, the other 17, in a Somerville park in 2002. Three MS-13 gang members were charged in the brutal rapes, during which one victim was knocked from her wheelchair before the assault.

Source

I nearly vomited when reading this. Its just SICK on how low they will go. MS-13 is a gang made up of almost all illegal immigrants.

Wiggins responded: "I believe some or all of (the) three may be illegal immigrants, though I haven't heard anything mentioned about it at any of their court hearings."

Reynaldo Tuyub, 21, Carlos Soberanis, 34, and Lorenzo Varguez, 28, have been arrested and charged with sexual assault, kidnapping and third-degree assault.

Authorities say the three men kidnapped a woman from a gas station near Grand Junction and took her in a van to a Colorado National Monument on August 22.

Source

Yet, another poor women.

In 2002, Hernandez went to Georgia, where he was arrested and deported. He told immigration authorities he was Mexican, so they sent him to Mexico, he told police. He quickly reentered the United States through Texas. Later that year, he robbed and beat a small child in Houston and was arrested.

A Salvadoran gang member admitted yesterday in a Fairfax County courtroom that he led the gang rape of a Falls Church area woman in the summer of 2001, then kicked her in the neck with such force that it killed her.

Source

Beating small children, raping a woman then killing her... where does it stop?

Ok, I really can't stand reading any more accounts. Its just so overwelming. I feel so angry and sad. I just hate this all! How can illegal immigrants just be so cruel? How can they come all the way to America for a better life and do THIS? Its so sad how many lifes illegal immigrants have ruined.

[TheOriginalF]

Kratos:

I'm not sure what the point of your post is, I don't think anybody here is arguing that Illegal Immigrants aren't doing anything wrong, they break the laws every day just like the rest of us.

Yes, they are breaking laws, but the laws you mentioned in your first source are all done simply in conjunction with the ultimate crime of illegally crossing the border. Of course they are filing false statements and failing to report the arrival of illegal aliens otherwise they wouldn't be illegal.

Again in your second source you simply seem to be reiterating the fact that what the Illegal Immigrants are doing is illegal. Yes it causes problems. Yes our country is overpopulated and is having a hard time supporting illegal immigration. We have a problem, now what are we going to do about it? As I mentioned in an earlier post if we (meaning the US and perhaps even the world) took it upon ourselves to flex our political might and stop turning a blind eye to the plights facing Mexico we might be able fix many if not all of these problems. It seems to me that you just want the problems with illegal immigration to just disappear with out having to get our hands dirty, but if we don't work towards fixing the social issues facing Mexico than I fail to how any of this is going to go away any time soon. In many ways this is a situation similar to the war on drugs, just passing laws and arresting people is only a quick fix, we won't truly win the war on drugs until we educate people and fix the social problems causing people to deal and use drugs.

"In Los Angeles, 95 percent of all outstanding warrants for homicide (which total 1,200 to 1,500) target illegal aliens. Up to two-thirds of all fugitive felony warrants (17,000) are for illegal aliens.

In 2000, nearly 30 percent of federal prisoners were foreign-born."

This is complete BS. Lets check out our sources shall we? Joseph Farrah sites Heather McDonald as the source for this in his article on World Net Daily, lets see what Heather has to say on the matter.

"Police commanders may not want to discuss, much less respond to, the illegal-alien crisis, but its magnitude for law enforcement is startling. Some examples:

• In Los Angeles, 95 percent of all outstanding warrants for homicide (which total 1,200 to 1,500) target illegal aliens. Up to two-thirds of all fugitive felony warrants (17,000) are for illegal aliens.

• A confidential California Department of Justice study reported in 1995 that 60 percent of the 20,000-strong 18th Street Gang in southern California is illegal; police officers say the proportion is actually much greater. The bloody gang collaborates with the Mexican Mafia, the dominant force in California prisons, on complex drug-distribution schemes, extortion, and drive-by assassinations, and commits an assault or robbery every day in L.A. County. The gang has grown dramatically over the last two decades by recruiting recently arrived youngsters, most of them illegal, from Central America and Mexico.

• The leadership of the Columbia Lil’ Cycos gang, which uses murder and racketeering to control the drug market around L.A.’s MacArthur Park, was about 60 percent illegal in 2002, says former assistant U.S. attorney Luis Li. Francisco Martinez, a Mexican Mafia member and an illegal alien, controlled the gang from prison, while serving time for felonious reentry following deportation.

Good luck finding any reference to such facts in official crime analysis. The LAPD and the L.A. city attorney recently requested an injunction against drug trafficking in Hollywood, targeting the 18th Street Gang and the “non–gang members” who sell drugs in Hollywood for the gang. Those non–gang members are virtually all illegal Mexicans, smuggled into the country by a ring organized by 18th Street bigs. The Mexicans pay off their transportation debts to the gang by selling drugs; many soon realize how lucrative that line of work is and stay in the business."

Front

Page Magazine

The key words being "Good luck finding any references to such facts" Okay, so she states these bold facts and then goes on to tell us not to look for the official data? Whatever Heather.... Where did she find these seceret facts? A reliable source would be nice.

Yes it's a shame that innocent people are assaulted and killed and I do feel saddened by hearing stories like that. Sure those events wouldn't have happened if these people hadn't crossed the border but again these kind of things are going to continue to happen until we find a manner in which to fix the problems arising due to Mexico's poor living conditions. In the long run the hard work will only benefit us. It's also important to keep in mind that those few incidents that you mention in no way represents the overall volume of illegal aliens in our country, I would be willing to wager most are peaceful individuals who are trying to mind there own business and not get deported...But I don't know, why don't we ask our good friend Heather to see if she can dig up any statistics for us.

[__Kratos__]

It's also important to keep in mind that those few incidents that you mention in no way represents the overall volume of illegal aliens in our country

O yeah sure, just cause its only SOME it doesn't matter. Wouldn't that be quite the twist. Its the fact they are illegal and are commiting even more crimes in the US. Its sick. I don't care if it is ONE crime. They represent all illegal immigrants with their actions. Just can't pick and choose which ones you like.

In Los Angeles, 95 percent of all outstanding warrants for homicide (which total 1,200 to 1,500) target illegal aliens. Up to two-thirds of all fugitive felony warrants (17,000) are for illegal aliens.

Google Search - Look Through All the Pages

It seems to me that you just want the problems with illegal immigration to just disappear with out having to get our hands dirty

You should read ALL my posts then judge on that. I have made a few suggestions.

Whatever Heather.... Where did she find these seceret facts?

If you read through her entire report, she says where she found the infomation. Next time please read before you post.

[TheOriginalF]

It's also important to keep in mind that those few incidents that you mention in no way represents the overall volume of illegal aliens in our country

O yeah sure, just cause its only SOME it doesn't matter. Wouldn't that be quite the twist. Its the fact they are illegal and are commiting even more crimes in the US. Its sick. I don't care if it is ONE crime. They represent all illegal immigrants with their actions. Just can't pick and choose which ones you like.

In Los Angeles, 95 percent of all outstanding warrants for homicide (which total 1,200 to 1,500) target illegal aliens. Up to two-thirds of all fugitive felony warrants (17,000) are for illegal aliens.

Google Search - Look Through All the Pages

It seems to me that you just want the problems with illegal immigration to just disappear with out having to get our hands dirty

You should read ALL my posts then judge on that. I have made a few suggestions.

Whatever Heather.... Where did she find these seceret facts?

If you read through her entire report, she says where she found the information. Next time please read before you post.

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Yes you can pick and choose which ones you like, you can't stereotype an entire group of people based on the actions of a few. Let me ask you a question do your fellow Americans represent you? By this logic I could say that all criminals here in America are representative of our culture. Is that a fair assumption?

I looked up that statistic on the Google search you provided for me and every site I came across credits the story to Heather MacDonald, who doesn't site a reference, the only reference that I see sites a 1995 confidential California Department of Justice study that is talking about the 18th street gang, where is the reference to the study that shows that 95% of all outstanding warrants for homicide target illegal immigrants. Oddly enough one site credits itself

Sorry Kratos I didn't mean to pass judgement on you about not having any solutions, it's not an easy problem, but I don't see how such blind hate and stereotyping is helping anything.

[Babs]

When a person crosses that line, no pun intended you are a criminal. Criminals are criminals.

It doesn't matter the background, they have taken it upon themselves to break the law. And so many have committed other crimes with it.