The Cost of Illegal Immigrants

[__Kratos__]

Yes you can pick and choose which ones you like, you can't stereotype an entire group of people based on the actions of a few. Let me ask you a question do your fellow Americans represent you? By this logic I could say that all criminals here in America are representative of our culture. Is that a fair assumption?

I looked up that statistic on the Google search you provided for me and every site I came across credits the story to Heather MacDonald, who doesn't site a reference, the only reference that I see sites a 1995 confidential California Department of Justice study that is talking about the 18th street gang, where is the reference to the study that shows that 95% of all outstanding warrants for homicide target illegal immigrants. Oddly enough one site credits itself 

Sorry Kratos I didn't mean to pass judgement on you about not having any solutions, it's not an easy problem, but I don't see how such blind hate and stereotyping is helping anything.

I am not sterotyping. I am taking a group of already criminals and seeing how many others are commiting even worse crimes, or other crimes in general. They come all the way to America for a better life only to commit crimes. Illegal aliens don't belong here in the first place, so with each crime that is commited they are all a part of it. If those illegal aliens had a decent head they wouldn't be trying to take on society and steal from those that deserve it. As for Heather's report, IN her report she lists her sources. Learn to open your eyes and READ! I don't have blind hate, I have hate from what I have seen done by the illegal immigrants. On the news and in person. Its truely disgusting.

Babs: When a person crosses that line, no pun intended  you are a criminal. Criminals are criminals.

It doesn't matter the background, they have taken it upon themselves to break the law. And so many have committed other crimes with it.

Yep, 100% true.

Edited April 10, 2005 by __Kratos__

[TheOriginalF]

I am not sterotyping. I am taking a group of already criminals and seeing how many others are commiting even worse crimes, or other crimes in general. They come all the way to America for a better life only to commit crimes. Illegal aliens don't belong here in the first place, so with each crime that is commited they are all a part of it. If those illegal aliens had a decent head they wouldn't be trying to take on society and steal from those that deserve it. As for Heather's report, IN her report she lists her sources. Learn to open your eyes and READ! I don't have blind hate, I have hate from what I have seen done by the illegal immigrants. On the news and in person. Its truely disgusting.

566049[/snapback]

"I don't care if it is ONE crime. They represent all illegal immigrants with their actions. Just can't pick and choose which ones you like."

That is stereotyping of a group of people. Yes all have broken the law to get here but that doesn't mean that all of them are rampant criminals once they arrive. It doesn't even make sense for them to be, why would the vast majority of illegal aliens who came here to better their lives go out of there way to draw attention to themselves and risk being deported? The only broken law they all have in common is coming here illegally, any other broken laws illegal aliens commit is unique unto the individual committing the crime and doesn't represent all illegal aliens.

Look after years of writing college papers I have developed a habit for checking sources. I honestly would like to read the study she is refereing to when she states that "in Los Angeles, 95 percent of all outstanding warrants for homicide (which total 1,200 to 1,500) target illegal aliens. Up to two-thirds of all fugitive felony warrants (17,000) are for illegal aliens." I have read the report several times and I don't see a source sighted for that statistic, if it's so glaringly obvious why don't you post here for all of us to read. It may not be wrong but I would like to do some research and see how these statistics match up. But that's kind of hard to do when she states "Good luck finding any reference to such facts in official crime analysis."

[__Kratos__]

Look after years of writing college papers I have developed a habit for checking sources. I honestly would like to read the study she is refereing to when she states that "in Los Angeles, 95 percent of all outstanding warrants for homicide (which total 1,200 to 1,500) target illegal aliens. Up to two-thirds of all fugitive felony warrants (17,000) are for illegal aliens." I have read the report several times and I don't see a source sighted for that statistic, if it's so glaringly obvious why don't you post here for all of us to read. It may not be wrong but I would like to do some research and see how these statistics match up. But that's kind of hard to do when she states "Good luck finding any reference to such facts in official crime analysis."

O! I thought you were still talking about all her "secret facts".

That is stereotyping of a group of people. Yes all have broken the law to get here but that doesn't mean that all of them are rampant criminals once they arrive. It doesn't even make sense for them to be, why would the vast majority of illegal aliens who came here to better their lives go out of there way to draw attention to themselves and risk being deported? The only broken law they all have in common is coming here illegally, any other broken laws illegal aliens commit is unique unto the individual committing the crime and doesn't represent all illegal aliens.

The fact is they are still all illegal aliens. Does it have to matter what crime they commit to be put in a category? I guess you think that calling them all illegal immigrants is a sterotype to?

Officer Hamilton:"As a police officer, I come into contact daily with people who are in this country illegally and who have no respect for the law or American citizens. Even when treated with respect and courtesy, and being warned instead of being arrested, they again flaunt the law. "

Source

Hmm, thats a disturbing quote from one of America's fine police officers.

America should just put a military presence on the border, with strict orders to let nobody cross. First warn, second warning shot, third shoot to kill. Illegal Immigrants are in a way terrorists. For the bill of a military operation I say we charge Mexico for it. Once they start to feel the burn, the Mexican goverment would take action on the borders also. I would support this because America's and legal immigrants are being hurt with the flow of criminals. You up the punishment for a crime, that crime rate WILL go down.

terrorist

adj : characteristic of someone who employs terrorism (especially as a political weapon); "terrorist activity"; "terrorist state" n : a radical who employs terror as a political weapon; usually organizes with other terrorists in small cells; often uses religion as a cover for terrorist activities

Source

Stealing lots of money from America. The terrorist small cells are the gangs of illegal immigrants like but not limited to MS-13. Instead of using religion as a cover for their actions they use instead the excuse of their goverment to break our laws. Sad isn't it? All this time you look at illegal immigrants as the victims, when in fact they are the perpetrators.

[dmgspycat]

Still at it kratos? Give it a rest...too much zeal is not good. Don't be too impressed with laws and whats legal because remember...everything Hitler did, was legal...didn't make it right though did it?

[__Kratos__]

Still at it kratos? Give it a rest...too much zeal is not good. Don't be too impressed with laws and whats legal because remember...everything Hitler did, was legal...didn't make it right though did it?

566633[/snapback]

Not sure where or how you got hitler in this story but, but no not everything he did was legal. He brought his treaty with the soviets and invaded them after he played with europe. BUT.... we are not here to debate the actions of hitler. If you want to do that, post a new thread all about hitler.

Yeah... sure... lets just put aside our laws cause they are useless! NO! Laws are in place for a reason. Laws are to protet society. We don't want murders and rapists running around.

[TheOriginalF]

The fact is they are still all illegal aliens. Does it have to matter what crime they commit to be put in a category? I guess you think that calling them all illegal immigrants is a sterotype to?

Officer Hamilton:"As a police officer, I come into contact daily with people who are in this country illegally and who have no respect for the law or American citizens. Even when treated with respect and courtesy, and being warned instead of being arrested, they again flaunt the law. "

Source

Hmm, thats a disturbing quote from one of America's fine police officers.

America should just put a military presence on the border, with strict orders to let nobody cross. First warn, second warning shot, third shoot to kill. Illegal Immigrants are in a way terrorists. For the bill of a military operation I say we charge Mexico for it. Once they start to feel the burn, the Mexican government would take action on the borders also. I would support this because America's and legal immigrants are being hurt with the flow of criminals. You up the punishment for a crime, that crime rate WILL go down.

terrorist

adj : characteristic of someone who employs terrorism (especially as a political weapon); "terrorist activity"; "terrorist state" n : a radical who employs terror as a political weapon; usually organizes with other terrorists in small cells; often uses religion as a cover for terrorist activities

Source

Stealing lots of money from America. The terrorist small cells are the gangs of illegal immigrants like but not limited to MS-13. Instead of using religion as a cover for their actions they use instead the excuse of their government to break our laws. Sad isn't it? All this time you look at illegal immigrants as the victims, when in fact they are the perpetrators.

566263[/snapback]

What makes them illegal aliens is that they crossed the border illegally as I mentioned earlier, the only crime they all have in common is that they came here illegally any other crimes committed once they arrive are unique to the individual and don't represent the group as a whole. Do you think they all celebrate when another illegal alien rapes and murders somebody? They are people, and I'm sure that some felt sickened by it, some didn't care, and others maybe did celebrate or think it was funny, but the point is that all of them aren't on the same page as a people.

Yes calling them all Illegal Immigrants would be a stereotype but in this case it's a proper stereotype because because they are in fact all "Illegal Immigrants".

So it's come to using military force to fix the problem? You don't think maybe we should try something a little less extreme at first? Perhaps maybe denying them entry into the Western community until they begin to pass laws like a minimum wage, social security or welfare. Why would Mexico care if we picked of immigrants at the border? Why would they go out of there way to make the sweeping social changes necessary to fix Mexico's economy if they know the poor in there country are just going to head on up to the border and get shot. Sure there would be no more illegals in our country, we just be left with a mass killing field on the border of the US. Not to mention a rather nasty reputation around the world of being a heartless killing machine, what is that going to do our standing in the world?

And who is going to force Mexico to pay the bill for our military? If we opt to use military force to back down illegals at the border that is our choice and thusly our responsibility and nobody is going to pawn the bill off on the Mexican govt. Should we now go to war with Mexico? That would really be the only way were are going to get them to pay the bill. What's more if they are paying the ungodly high sum it would cost to militarize our borders how are they going to make the economic and social reforms that they are supposed to be making while we slaughter people at the border? Again we would only wind up making the problem worse.

Terrorist's? How exactly are illegal immigrants using terror terror as a political weapon to coerce our government? And what are they trying to coerce our government into doing? Sure they take money from us but you have to keep in mind that they aren't doing it just to hurt you. They find themselves in a difficult position and they came here to try to make there lives better, there isn't some under lying plan to overthrow the government or make our lives worse. You are reading way too much into the intentions of illegals. It's simply an unfortunate problem that has gotten out of hand and now we are all having to deal with the fall out. Stop trying to make this an us vs them issue, this isn't a football game, it's a deep seeded social problem that is going to take a lot of hard work and time from both the US and Mexico to fix.

Edited April 11, 2005 by TheOriginalF

[Babs]

No one has the right to make themselves special because they want something.

That's how I see the illegal immigrants. And in doing this they place financial burden upon us and weaken our borders (to terrorism). Everything is getting mixed up down there and it is placing us in danger at a time when you'd think Mexico would be a little more (911) sensitive.

Edited April 11, 2005 by Babs

[__Kratos__]

What makes them illegal aliens is that they crossed the border illegally as I mentioned earlier, the only crime they all have in common is that they came here illegally any other crimes committed once they arrive are unique to the individual and don't represent the group as a whole. Do you think they all celebrate when another illegal alien rapes and murders somebody? They are people, and I'm sure that some felt sickened by it, some didn't care, and others maybe did celebrate or think it was funny, but the point is that all of them aren't on the same page as a people.

I wouldn't take it as far as they hold a party for a rape... but they are all illegal aliens, all with a criminal past already. So they all fit together as the "illegal alien problem". You just can't say "Over here we will put the "good" illegal aliens and on the other side we will put the "bad" illegal aliens." Just can't. You can however say that all illegal aliens bring an increase in crime with them to America.

So it's come to using military force to fix the problem? You don't think maybe we should try something a little less extreme at first?

America has tried border patrol. What more should we really do? Mexico really isn't our problem cept for the fact their citizens and others crossing our borders illegally. Its like they are invading us or something. The illegal alien number is in the millions already. Upping the punishment for crossing the border WILL reduce the number of people greatly that will try. I doubt it will happen anytime soon though. But that is what I believe, yes.

And who is going to force Mexico to pay the bill for our military? If we opt to use military force to back down illegals at the border that is our choice and thusly our responsibility and nobody is going to pawn the bill off on the Mexican govt. Should we now go to war with Mexico? That would really be the only way were are going to get them to pay the bill.

War with Mexico? No way! Then they would become our problem! No, this time I go for the more peaceful way of forcing them to pay. Some ideas for that would be but not limited to: sanctions, diplomatic channels and maybe through the UN.

Terrorist's? How exactly are illegal immigrants using terror terror as a political weapon to coerce our government? And what are they trying to coerce our government into doing? Sure they take money from us but you have to keep in mind that they aren't doing it just to hurt you. They find themselves in a difficult position and they came here to try to make there lives better, there isn't some under lying plan to overthrow the government or make our lives worse. You are reading way too much into the intentions of illegals. It's simply an unfortunate problem that has gotten out of hand and now we are all having to deal with the fall out. Stop trying to make this an us vs them issue, this isn't a football game, it's a deep seeded social problem that is going to take a lot of hard work and time from both the US and Mexico to fix.

They are actually right now trying to get more rights in America. Look over at CA. Yes, they take LOTS of money from us. Its driving down our way of life, I bet that over 10 billion bucks could go nicely with our public school system and communities in need.

Analysis of the latest Census data indicates that California's illegal immigrant population is costing the state's taxpayers more than $10.5 billion per year for education, medical care and incarceration. Even if the estimated tax contributions of illegal immigrant workers are subtracted, net outlays still amount to nearly $9 billion per year.

Source

In a way it is us vs them, because what else is it? They are playing the field, while what? The US waits on the sidelines? No, we should take action against them. Its not really a deep social problem, its a CRIMINAL problem. I do agree that both the US and Mexico should fix the problem, but we shouldn't really work together. Only because then illegals would get even more pity then they should as criminals.

[Babs]

Let's cover the borders, stay on them. See what happens. So far it has been a success in that there are less illegals crossing the border.

The borders are violent now and have been for a while. If more bloodshed breaks out because of our 'patrolling the borders' it can't be helped. I say 'continue on', til we see (real) progress.

[Babs]

I think it's disgusting how Bush won't take more action here...he's out covering Iraq's borders. I know that fighting in Iraq makes us more secure, but we 'do' have a problem at 'our' borders. (Another thing that pees me off is we're fighting for Iraq and they have all this oil and Americans are paying more at the gas pumps ).

As the Minutemen grow, I can't wait to see what Bush will do. I hope he joins us in securing our borders soon.

Edited April 11, 2005 by Babs

[wunarmdscissor]

I say 'continue on', til we see (real) progress.

what exactly is real progress?

sppose you dont want immigration at all?

[Berger]

You know what angers me the most,is all the immagrants comming here and blair welcome's them with open arms.give's them are houses,jobs etc.when we got are own people living in poverty,familys with no home's etc.Im not racist its just the situation that makes me

[warden]

You know what angers me the most,is all the  immagrants comming here and blair welcome's them with open arms.give's them are houses,jobs etc.when we got are own people living in poverty,familys with no home's etc.Im not racist its just the situation that makes me

567515[/snapback]

bang on you are not a racist you are a realist ,one simple example of our system,7 miles from my home the people of a town called loanhead have been asking the council for some afordable housing for the younger generation the answer was no money avalible,then they asked what tha council was going to do with the homeless problem in their town ,nothing we can do the know as we have no founds

1 month later the council found 1.000.000 pounds to build flats for imigrants to live with private car park space `as if they could afford a car`

no money avaliable for the tax payer but 1.00.000 pounds just appear as soon as you say imigrants

that is only one story if you would like to hear more just ask

[ForRizzle]

We get the same thing here in the US. No money or security for the taxpayers, but if your an illegal then its open pocketbook time. What a crock of Sh#%$% our leaders are imposing in us. They need to be kicked out and replaced with leaders who represent the tax paying citizens and not foriegn governments. What the hell are they thinking?

[Babs]

We get the same thing here in the US. No money or security for the taxpayers, but if your an illegal then its open pocketbook time. What a crock of Sh#%$% our leaders are imposing in us. They need to be kicked out and replaced with leaders who represent the tax paying citizens and not foriegn governments. What the hell are they thinking?

567680[/snapback]

Yo.

Just as we speak there is news that bombs or a bomb scare housed in two suitcases are at the capital. The security got the guy...looks like they beat the crap out of him . Now, I wonder where did this guy come from...the borders... or one of our infamous sleeper cells?

[Babs]

The security hit this guy in the head and dragged him off and then blew up one of the suitcases.

Edited April 11, 2005 by Babs

[ForRizzle]

Good call Babs. I wonder as well. I hope they let us know when he has been identified!

[Babs]

They are talking about how the security at the capital don't mess around, they get it done. Wow, I wish they would do this at the border. No. They have the borders wide open...so that guys like this can come in and blow us up.

We are like sitting ducks in a shooting gallery." Let um in boys!.. we'll try to head um off at the pass!"

What's wrong here?

Edited April 11, 2005 by Babs

[jeceris]

Let's cover the borders, stay on them. See what happens. So far it has been a success in that there are less illegals crossing the border.  

The borders are violent now and have been for a while. If more bloodshed breaks out because of our 'patrolling the borders' it can't be helped. I say 'continue on', til we see (real) progress.

567115[/snapback]

specify please babs, i take it you mean the mexican/american border.

[sanchera1978]

Man some of you people are ignorant. You dont even know who this guy is and your already pointing fingers. babs i feel sorry for you!! you must be one scared girl! poor little defenseless you. bush created a fictional war on terrorism and your blaming mexicans as too the cause. terrorist can get in through alot more places then the southern border. you would have to guard the entire us coastal line in order to properly prevent anyone from coming in illegally. So you tell Bush to sign up about a billion more soldiers to guard the borders. see what the response is.

[sanchera1978]

what makes you think that if they did keep everyone out there wouldnt be any terrorist attacks. most of the supposed 9/11 bombers were here on student visas that they got through their political connections.

[TheOriginalF]

I wouldn't take it as far as they hold a party for a rape... but they are all illegal aliens, all with a criminal past already. So they all fit together as the "illegal alien problem". You just can't say "Over here we will put the "good" illegal aliens and on the other side we will put the "bad" illegal aliens." Just can't. You can however say that all illegal aliens bring an increase in crime with them to America.

America has tried border patrol. What more should we really do? Mexico really isn't our problem cept for the fact their citizens and others crossing our borders illegally. Its like they are invading us or something. The illegal alien number is in the millions already. Upping the punishment for crossing the border WILL reduce the number of people greatly that will try. I doubt it will happen anytime soon though. But that is what I believe, yes.

War with Mexico? No way! Then they would become our problem! No, this time I go for the more peaceful way of forcing them to pay. Some ideas for that would be but not limited to: sanctions, diplomatic channels and maybe through the UN.

They are actually right now trying to get more rights in America. Look over at CA. Yes, they take LOTS of money from us. Its driving down our way of life, I bet that over 10 billion bucks could go nicely with our public school system and communities in need.

In a way it is us vs them, because what else is it? They are playing the field, while what? The US waits on the sidelines? No, we should take action against them. Its not really a deep social problem, its a CRIMINAL problem. I do agree that both the US and Mexico should fix the problem, but we shouldn't really work together. Only because then illegals would get even more pity then they should as criminals.

567028[/snapback]

Yes I do agree that illegals do bring with them unneeded crime. What I am saying is that one illegal can't be held accountable for the actions of another once they are already here. The only crime all of them should be held accountable for is the crime of crossing the border illegally, after that each crime has to be dealt with in an individual manner.

Patrolling the border is only a means of fixing the immediate problem and placing a military presence at the border will only add to the steep bills we are all having to pay for this problem. Of course we should continue to patrol the border but we need to more than that (I'll refer you to my previous posts). What's more Mexico is our problem, if we don't see to them making the social changes needed than we have to deal with the outfall of illegals, it's not fair to us, but it is however reality.

I don't see how else we are going to force Mexico into paying the bills for our military patrolling the border, unless we use military force. How is Mexico even going to pay for it? I'll reiterate what I wrote earlier if they are paying for our military presence on the border than we leave them without the resources needed to make the changes necessary to fix the situation.

Yes they are trying to get more rights, but how does that turn into them using terror on us to coerce govt into giving them those rights?

Once again I think you're reading way too much into the intentions of illegals, they are simply coming here for a better life. They don't sit down there behind the border thinking up ways to **** us, they are just trying to make their way in the world and the unfortunate answer is for them is to come here. It's a bad situation that is worsened by people turning it into a them vs us situation, the world needs more understanding and less judgement. Perhaps if we learned to live side by side while all of this is being sorted out, our communities would be better off for the time being. My point is that regardless of their illegal actions they aren't going anywhere for the time being, (it would be virtually impossible to flush them out of our communities) why not try to understand them and make the best of lousy situation instead of just furthering the violence and hatred that this problem has already caused.

Yes it is a deep rooted social problem...that's what crime is.

You say that it's both the problem of Mexico and the US but than you state we shouldn't work together to find a solution? How does that work? And how does working out a solution with Mexico only wind up garnering pity for illegal immigrants? It don't see how we can fix the long term problem without working with Mexico in everyway possible.

[sanchera1978]

very good post THEORGINAL to bad more people dont think like you. Could you imagine if everyone in the US thought like some of the racist people on this board. With no conideration for their fellow humanbeings.

[Celumnaz]

Canadian border is pretty bad too.

[jeceris]

Canadian border is pretty bad too.

567782[/snapback]

i was waiting for it.

how? yes there are some that sneak in, but most canadians don't feel the need, or have the masochistic tendency to want to sneak into the states and try to set up shop.

and, if some "unwanted" are getting in, then it's down to your boys at the crossing point.

and actually if you've ever been there, that would mean leaving the bunker, the canadian/american border looks pretty nice, whether your stranded in the middle of lake superior, or wandering the prairies between north dakota and manitoba.

i read an article a few months ago about and american from california who met and internet sweetheart in montreal. and he decided to go see her, but he had a criminal record. so he figured he could just sneak over the border, in north dakota, and he started walking from some american town near the border.

his idea was to get to winnipeg and bus it to montreal.

well it's february, and minus 20, and he gets lost in the dark, and isn't dressed for it, and is found after a day of freezing near the border, picked up and dethawed. never did get to see his sweetheart.

and maybe we should consider shutting the border to all your elderly who come here for an afternoon to buy cheap medication, they can't afford in the states.

it goes two ways.