Israel's UN ambassador wears Nazi-era yellow star

[pellinore]

Maybe he has forgotten enclosing people in a ghetto is not always considered a good idea? Like what happened in Warsaw in 1943? It solved a problem, but was it moral? I'm not sure what message he means to send.

Israel’s delegation to the United Nations (UN) has worn yellow stars in the style of those used by the Nazis to identify Jews during the Holocaust, as it criticises the organisation for its handling of the war in Gaza.

Ambassador Gilad Erdan said the group would continue to wear the Star of David, which has the words ‘Never Again’ written at the centre, until the Security Council condemns Hamas and its ‘atrocities’.

Israel's UN ambassador wears Nazi-era yellow star sparking outrage | World News | Metro News

Edited October 31, 2023 by pellinore

[+and-then]

15 minutes ago, pellinore said:

Maybe he has forgotten enclosing people in a ghetto is not always considered a good idea? Like what happened in Warsaw in 1943? It solved a problem, but was it moral? I'm not sure what message he means to send.

The message being sent is that Hamas went so far on 10/7 that ALL Israelis had to admit to themselves that they cannot try to coexist with these demons any longer.  They cannot keep telling themselves the lie that peace is possible with these vicious animals.  You are equating the treatment the Nazis imposed on the Jews, with the self defense measures Israel is taking?  REALLY?  Would you care to explain how Israel was rounding Palestinians up and forcing them into a camp prior to those Palestinians making war against Israel?  Israel has been at war with those Palestinians for decades, not because Israel wanted war but because the Arab Muslims in the ME refuse, totally, to live side by side with Jews on a piece of land of ANY SIZE.

IOW, cite the evidence that in the 1930 and 40s, German Jews were attacking the German government.  It's rhetorical of course.  The Jews in Europe were rounded up and put in ghettos due to their prosperity and the world's ancient hatred of them, NOT because they were attacking the governments in their countries of residence.  Your insinuation is blatantly anti-Semitic and you should be ashamed of yourself.  

Hate like what you are giving life to, is eventually going to blow up in the world's face and none of us are going to be spared its consequences.  If Israel refuses to stop their business in Gaza, the whole world - including the US - will eventually be whipped into such a frenzy that we could see regional, even global war as a result.  This crisis isn't the same old script and those who think it is are going to be shocked at the results this time.

[+and-then]

Just curious... what "problem" was solved by the creation of the ghettos?

[Tatetopa]

5 hours ago, and-then said:

Hate like what you are giving life to, is eventually going to blow up in the world's face and none of us are going to be spared its consequences. 

 

[Occupational Hubris]

He's reminding everyone who their role models are right now

[pellinore]

7 hours ago, and-then said:

Just curious... what "problem" was solved by the creation of the ghettos?

Himmler gave a speech in 1943: For I did not consider myself justified in exterminating the men—in other words, killing them or having them killed—and then allowing their children to grow up to wreak vengeance on our children and grandchildren. The difficult decision had to be taken to make these people disappear from the face of the earth. For the organization that had to carry out this duty it was the most difficult that we have ever had to undertake.”

Himmler was "justifying" genocide. I just think it is a strategic error for Israel to draw parallels with the Nazis. Obviously, they have to have to do all they can to defeat terrorists - the free democratic world is united in that aim. I've recently read Sam Harris's 'the End of Faith'.

I just agree with the critics that suggest we have to be careful what messages we are sending. I think I am right in saying that one of the US's operations in the ME was called "Operation Crusader" until it was pointed out that, historically, the Crusades were hard to justify. Reminding people of historical genocide while you are being accused of bombing civilians as collateral damage may not be a good idea, from a propaganda perspective.

[+and-then]

6 hours ago, pellinore said:

the Crusades were hard to justify.

I disagree.  The later excesses of the Crusades may have been, but they didn't even begin until Islam had been raping and pillaging against Christians for 400 years.  

Also, that was the whole point of the thread I had closed.  There is a GLARING double standard where there is a kind of baked-in assumption that Israel is to blame for everything that is done to them so they cannot do what it takes to stop an enemy that willingly sacrifices innocents to accomplish its goal.  Here's an example of the same kind of thinking I've seen HERE, by one of the poor Palestinians:

https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/379525

[odas]

In 1000BC, the Israelite king, David, invaded Jerusalem and walled and fortified the city against further invasion. Later, when King Solomon built the temple, Jerusalem became a spiritual capital, first for the Jews and later for Christians and Muslims too.

From one point does history start? From a point that suits ones narrative? In cases like Israel, yes, defenatly.

But, I do wonder about all the "raping and killing" by muslims claim. Is it that's why Jews followed muslims always and found safe heaven from the oh so good crusaiders?

500 years of ottoman muslim rule in europe but there is stll Greece, Serbia, Monte Negro, Bulgaria, Romania, Bosnia...in bigger population numbers than before the ottomans.

Where are the rightfull inhabitants of Australia, Americas..? Where is their land, religion, freedom, rights?

Killed, raped, dehuminized, enslaved..by the christian invaders, that's where they are.

Before placing judgments look at yourself first.

 

[Setton]

3 hours ago, and-then said:

I disagree.  The later excesses of the Crusades may have been, but they didn't even begin until Islam had been raping and pillaging against Christians for 400 years.  

Your ignorance of history is only outweighed by your ignorance of strategy.

[+OverSword]

I accidentally saw the video of hamas soldiers with the ravaged mutilated corpse of that beautiful girl from the music festival in a truck with them as they drove slowly through the streets as people chanted about how great god is while spitting on the body of this poor child and now I see this and am very sad

 

[Raptor Witness]

On 10/31/2023 at 7:39 PM, and-then said:

Just curious... what "problem" was solved by the creation of the ghettos?

Best post of the month, by far …

[Antigonos]

23 hours ago, odas said:

But, I do wonder about all the "raping and killing" by muslims claim. Is it that's why Jews followed muslims always and found safe heaven from the oh so good crusaiders?

 

 

Not to mention all the Eastern Orthodox Christians the Frankish crusaders slaughtered right along with the Jews and Muslims. Mostly for land grabbing and looting.

[Raptor Witness]

On 10/31/2023 at 7:10 PM, pellinore said:

Like what happened in Warsaw in 1943? It solved a problem, but was it moral?

There were a lot more ghettos than just Warsaw. The only “problem” it solved, was how to try and get away with exterminating a race and a religion. Fortunately, Germany failed, thanks to the heroic Western allies, and the Russians.

I agree that regardless of any justification, what Israel is now doing in Gaza, is essentially the same type of thing.

The truth is, it gives their “Holy Name,” a black eye.

As for their UN Members wearing yellow stars of David, I think this is pretty risky, because honest people see the hypocrisy of their treatment of the ghetto in Gaza.

There is great danger ahead, for all races and people on earth, because the stage is being set for a monster far worse than we saw in WWII.

[odas]

37 minutes ago, Antigonos said:

Not to mention all the Eastern Orthodox Christians the Frankish crusaders slaughtered right along with the Jews and Muslims. Mostly for land grabbing and looting.

I know. But we cannot talk historical facts when it comes to ultra religious people. 

There is apsolutely no whitewashing what muslims, christians and jews did to others and to their own in terms of any kind of brutality. It seems to the normal eye that they competed thruout history who is going to do worse things to other human beings. 

 

[odas]

29 minutes ago, Raptor Witness said:

There were a lot more ghettos than just Warsaw. The only “problem” it solved, was how to try and get away with exterminating a race and a religion. Fortunately, Germany failed, thanks to the heroic Western allies, and the Russians.

I agree that regardless of any justification, what Israel is now doing in Gaza, is essentially the same type of thing.

The truth is, it gives their “Holy Name,” a black eye.

As for their UN Members wearing yellow stars of David, I think this is pretty risky, because honest people see the hypocrisy of their treatment of the ghetto in Gaza.

There is great danger ahead, for all races and people on earth, because the stage is being set for a monster far worse than we saw in WWII.

And the one who actually protested against what the UN members did are real Jews who have lost family or survived the holocaust. The see what the Isralie zionists are doing is wrong. 

[+and-then]

On 11/1/2023 at 10:27 AM, odas said:

Before placing judgments look at yourself first.

I never claimed the Crusaders weren't as evil in their predecessors.  I merely pointed out that those crusades didn't begin until about 400 years after Muslim conquest reached Christian areas.  That's a valid point, I think.  It gives some context to those who point to the Crusades as though they were what started the conflict between the two.  I'm well aware, for example, that where the Jews are concerned, they have FAR more reason to hate Christians than Muslims.  Christians slaughtered them regularly down through the ages.  

As for blaming Zionists, it's pointless in changing the reality but if it gives comfort somehow, go for it.  It doesn't change the fact that most of that land they set up on was legally purchased and when they declared statehood the British gave the Palestinians a MUCH better deal with respect to the total amount of land but they adamantly rejected it and have continued to do so since then.  Israel has built a productive nation over 75 years and it simply isn't going to be uprooted.  It's insane to inculcate hate in the youth and guarantee them a life of unending misery when both the Jews and Arabs could live prosperously on that land.

If supporting the Arab's right to retake every inch of that land is worth such an investment in sheer misery and suffering so long after Israel came into being then that's on those who teach and keep the hate alive generation to generation.  I have a feeling that this war is going to change everything, however.  

[bmk1245]

On 11/2/2023 at 5:17 PM, odas said:

I know. But we cannot talk historical facts when it comes to ultra religious people. 

There is apsolutely no whitewashing what muslims, christians and jews did to others and to their own in terms of any kind of brutality. It seems to the normal eye that they competed thruout history who is going to do worse things to other human beings. 

 

Arab world, Israel is minute spot on the map, add to that other Muslim countries, on the map you can't even see Israel, but Muslims want the land "From the river to the sea"

Anyway, who can expain to me how this is stilll refugee camp (Jamail)?! There were millions of displaced Germans after WWII, do we see german refugee camps in Germany today?

Another question, why Egypt or Jordan won't accept 'palestinians'?

[odas]

1 hour ago, bmk1245 said:

Arab world, Israel is minute spot on the map, add to that other Muslim countries, on the map you can't even see Israel, but Muslims want the land "From the river to the sea"

Anyway, who can expain to me how this is stilll refugee camp (Jamail)?! There were millions of displaced Germans after WWII, do we see german refugee camps in Germany today?

Another question, why Egypt or Jordan won't accept 'palestinians'?

Fals. Palestinians, christian and muslim, want the land "from river to sea". Please stop with this nonsens about atributing palestinians only as a muslim thing. See what the christian palestinians have to endur on a daylie basis by Israel. Their churches are bombed too, their land is taken away to and they are forced out of their dignity too.

Unlike you and your country, the palestinians do not divide themself in christians amd muslims. I can post thousands of videos and articles about that.

[bmk1245]

24 minutes ago, odas said:

Fals. Palestinians, christian and muslim, want the land "from river to sea". Please stop with this nonsens about atributing palestinians only as a muslim thing. See what the christian palestinians have to endur on a daylie basis by Israel. Their churches are bombed too, their land is taken away to and they are forced out of their dignity too.

Unlike you and your country, the palestinians do not divide themself in christians amd muslims. I can post thousands of videos and articles about that.

Ok, isn't "from river to sea"?

BTW, who are palestinians? Wrong Jews? Wrong Arabs? Define 'palestian', please.

[bmk1245]

33 minutes ago, odas said:

Fals. Palestinians, christian and muslim, want the land "from river to sea". Please stop with this nonsens about atributing palestinians only as a muslim thing. See what the christian palestinians have to endur on a daylie basis by Israel. Their churches are bombed too, their land is taken away to and they are forced out of their dignity too.

Unlike you and your country, the palestinians do not divide themself in christians amd muslims. I can post thousands of videos and articles about that.

Just a question, odas, do you support sharia? Yes, or no?

[+and-then]

7 hours ago, bmk1245 said:

Ok, isn't "from river to sea"?

BTW, who are palestinians? Wrong Jews? Wrong Arabs? Define 'palestian', please.

"River to the sea" is a very clear statement of intent.  The Palestinians have NEVER said otherwise within their own communities.  They want a Judenrein Palestine and 10/7 was a stark reminder of what they would do to all of that land that Jews call their nation today.  This war is not going to end well for any Muslims that want Israel destroyed.  I think the Israeli government finally grasps that these people are led by DEMONS who want nothing more than the slaughter of Jews. 

Those who would shackle Israel's response unless they played by a set of rules that gave Hamas nearly total protection from the IDF, should begin paying close attention to reality.  They will eventually twig to the fact that this time Israelis are not going to be shamed or blamed into allowing Hamas' "dead baby strategy" (Allan Dershowitz) to restrain their annihilation of Hamas and anyone else that slaughters their civilians.  To do otherwise is to surrender to evil and allow themselves to be eradicated for the sin of breathing while Jewish.  It's time for people to pick sides.  Civilization, or a subhuman evil, totalitarian existence.  I stand with Israel and make no apologies for it now or ever.

[fred_mc]

I think that even if a symbol or a word has been used in negative contexts, the group it concerns can take control and turn it into something harmless by using it themselves. I'm for example thinking about the word "bög", which used to be a devaluating word for gay people here in Sweden. Then gay people started using that word about themselves, and by doing that made the word harmless.

[bmk1245]

2 hours ago, fred_mc said:

I think that even if a symbol or a word has been used in negative contexts, the group it concerns can take control and turn it into something harmless by using it themselves. I'm for example thinking about the word "bög", which used to be a devaluating word for gay people here in Sweden. Then gay people started using that word about themselves, and by doing that made the word harmless.

Ok, so what would have happen if 'prade parade' would be held, say, in Kista?

[odas]

On 11/4/2023 at 12:00 PM, bmk1245 said:

Just a question, odas, do you support sharia? Yes, or no?

Easy, no. Just like 99% of bosnian muslims do not support except that it is a kind of "in" now to get married in a mosque according to sharia which is in no difference to getting married in a church or synagoge according to christian or jewish marriage law.

[odas]

On 11/4/2023 at 11:53 AM, bmk1245 said:

Ok, isn't "from river to sea"?

BTW, who are palestinians? Wrong Jews? Wrong Arabs? Define 'palestian', please.

Palestinians, or as they call themself in their own arabic language, Philistins, are a group of people who live in that area in the middle east since thousands of years mostly descendents of the Caananites and pre Hebrew groups. Are they arab? According to arabs - they are not. Are they jews? According to Jews they are not. That is as much as I know in a short form.