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Why so specific? Rome founded on 21st April 753BC?


The Puzzler

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According to tradition, on April 21, 753 B.C., Romulus and his twin brother, Remus, found Rome on the site where they were suckled by a she-wolf as orphaned infants.”

Was there an occurrence that mythologically tied this date to the founding of Rome?

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Contrary to the gradual account given by material evidence, the Romans believed that their city was founded by the legendary king Romulus at a specific time and date, the most famous of which is 21 April 753 BC given by Marcus Terentius Varro in the first century BC…….Roman myth cast Romulus and his brother Remus as sons of Mars and princes from the royal line of Alba Longa, a city which itself had been founded by Aeneas following his departure from Ilium after the fall of Troy.” Wiki

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Founding_of_Rome

Sons of Mars…when Aries took Rhea Silvia (Ilia)….strangely enough we find Aries (Mars) leaving its place in the Zodiac that day, to change over to Taurus.

Dogs…could Sirius have some connection…an unseen twin?

“Sirius - A Diamond in the Night will tell two stories. The first and most obvious is why the star known as Sirius has been regarded as an important fixture of the night sky by many civilizations and cultures since the beginnings of history. A second, but related, narrative is the prominent part that Sirius has played in how we came to achieve our current scientific understanding of the nature and fate of the stars. These two topics have a long intertwined history, and the telling of one story eventually leads back to the other. Presently, new observations from space are revealing, in precise terms, how stars like Sirius and the Sun have evolved and what they will ultimately become, while at the same time answering some of the age-old questions about Sirius. The book is divided into five parts. The first (Chapters 1 and 2) describes how Sirius was viewed by the ancient civilizations of Egypt, Greece and Rome. The second part (Chapters 3-5) describes how early astronomers sought to determine the nature of the stars, including the prediction that Sirius possessed an unseen companion and the eventual discovery of this white dwarf companion 18 years later.”

Researchgate site, having trouble linking some sites, will put up screenshot.

Twin stars, one unseen (like Remus?)  Dog Star, Aries/Mars zodiac connection….

 

 

CFD4EE68-1B75-4DE8-A1DC-7A5DC50DB828.jpeg

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1 hour ago, The Puzzler said:

According to tradition, on April 21, 753 B.C., Romulus and his twin brother, Remus, found Rome on the site where they were suckled by a she-wolf as orphaned infants.”

Was there an occurrence that mythologically tied this date to the founding of Rome?

 

Quote

Contrary to the gradual account given by material evidence, the Romans believed that their city was founded by the legendary king Romulus at a specific time and date, the most famous of which is 21 April 753 BC given by Marcus Terentius Varro in the first century BC. (Founding of Rome)

Quote

The compilation of the Varronian chronology was an attempt to determine an exact year-by-year timeline of Roman history up to his time. It is based on the traditional sequence of the consuls of the Roman Republic—supplemented, where necessary, by inserting "dictatorial" and "anarchic" years. It has been demonstrated to be somewhat erroneous but has become the widely accepted standard chronology, ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcus_Terentius_Varro

 

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12 minutes ago, Windowpane said:

 

 

Certainly there is some year variation and even if there is variation…the question remains, even if Varro only stated it…why did HE come to this conclusion? What occurrence could have happened to make this date become the common accepted date?

 

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21st April, when the Sun leaves Aries (Mars) something is saying something to me, right there.

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Romans were much more stoic about mythology than Greeks, they didn’t really have any, it was all logical with them, everything had a true meaning…they would not have killed Socrates…put it that way, his thought was Roman in nature, his impiety at the Greek “Gods”, everything.

The said date of 21st April given by Varro would have some deep meaning. Funnily enough Queen Elizabeth II’s birthday was 21st April, not that’s got to do with anything but I bet she knew it.

The Romans, according to the orator and politician Cicero, excelled all other peoples in the unique wisdom that made them realize that everything is subordinate to the rule and direction of the gods. Yet Roman religion was based not on divine grace but instead on mutual trust (fides) between god and man. The object of Roman religion was to secure the cooperation, benevolence, and “peace” of the gods (pax deorum). The Romans believed that this divine help would make it possible for them to master the unknown forces around them that inspired awe and anxiety (religio), and thus they would be able to live successfully. 

 

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Roman-religion

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The Romans made it all up to compensate for their Greco Glory envy with delusional Romano grandeur... 

~

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24 minutes ago, The Puzzler said:

Certainly there is some year variation and even if there is variation…the question remains, even if Varro only stated it…why did HE come to this conclusion? What occurrence could have happened to make this date become the common accepted date?

 

Apparently, he used various sources: myths, legends, traditions, all sorts.

More information to be found in (the 41 books of) Antiquitates rerum humanarum et divinarum - or, at least, it could be if the work hadn't been lost.

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12 minutes ago, SHaYap said:

The Romans made it all up to compensate for their Greco Glory envy with delusional Romano grandeur... 

~

Seemingly, at first…but in fact they didn’t copy any mythology from the Greeks nor interpret their Gods the same way, even though we are conditioned to think they were just rip offs of Greek Gods…they cared little for the Greco Glory as far as I see it. Virgils interpretation of Aeneus in the Aeneid, is so late it’s ridiculous, we cannot at all associate it with anything Homer wrote. It’s almost a parody.

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13 minutes ago, Windowpane said:

Apparently, he used various sources: myths, legends, traditions, all sorts.

More information to be found in (the 41 books of) Antiquitates rerum humanarum et divinarum - or, at least, it could be if the work hadn't been lost.

Been lost…how convenient, I mean that sux. 
Same, same, Varro still came up with this date for a very good reason imo.

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8 minutes ago, The Puzzler said:

Seemingly, at first…but in fact they didn’t copy any mythology from the Greeks nor interpret their Gods the same way, even though we are conditioned to think they were just rip offs of Greek Gods…they cared little for the Greco Glory as far as I see it.

The Romans had nothing but Greco-Roman beliefs and identity. For centuries they were pale imitations of the all things Greek. Wasn't until they slaughtered everyone around them and had an Empire that they thought they needed an identity of their own by Juno... Just ask the Etruscans and Minoans...

~

8 minutes ago, The Puzzler said:

Virgils interpretation of Aeneus in the Aeneid, is so late it’s ridiculous, we cannot at all associate it with anything Homer wrote. It’s almost a parody.

Which is the point , and why Julius  had to alea iacta est...

~

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“Belief in astrology flowed into the Empire with emperors using astrology as a means of power. The first emperor Augustus used his sign (Capricorn) on his coins and claimed that his elevation was foretold by his horoscope, but this reliance proved to be a double-edged sword. If astrology could predict an emperor’s right to rule it could also predict his death. In AD 11 Augustus restricted the casting of horoscopes and even expelled astronomers from Rome and his successor Tiberius went one step further. The story goes that he had his court astrologer Thrasyllus cast the horoscopes of important men, executing any who had the potential to supplant him. A later emperor, Septimius Severus, had his horoscope recorded on the ceiling of his palace, but left the critical details blank so his own death could not be foretold.”

https://www.electimuss.com/gateway-to-the-gods/

21st April, when the Sun leaves Mars/Aries, father of Romulus, I’m not sure how just yet but I believe they were all over it.

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11 minutes ago, The Puzzler said:

Seemingly, at first…but in fact they didn’t copy any mythology from the Greeks nor interpret their Gods the same way, even though we are conditioned to think they were just rip offs of Greek Gods…they cared little for the Greco Glory as far as I see it. 

This is one step below believing in a  flat earth.

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1 minute ago, Antigonos said:

This is one step below believing in a  flat earth.

Beware the ides of March... Poor ol 'Julius saw it coming and he marched on like a Caesar... 

~

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10 minutes ago, SHaYap said:

The Romans had nothing but Greco-Roman beliefs and identity. For centuries they were pale imitations of the all things Greek. Wasn't until they slaughtered everyone around them and had an Empire that they thought they needed an identity of their own by Juno... Just ask the Etruscans and Minoans...

~

Which is the point , and why Julius  had to alea iacta est...

~

Minoans…? Weren’t they taken over by Mycenaean Greeks?

Etruscans, yes but tbh, they were their own worst enemies, I admire them very much, my favourite ancient culture but they seriously asked for it, they had no aptitude for moving forward and should have just worked with them instead of fighting them the whole way. 

I do not think they stole Hera from the Greeks, making her Juno.

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5 minutes ago, Antigonos said:

This is one step below believing in a  flat earth.

Now that’s just mean…lol

Nah, really, check it out more. 

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You’re all so believing in Homers poems of Greek mythology you’re not even seeing it clearly. It’s what Plato warned  you about.

Tbh I have no love for the Roman Empire, my least liked ancient culture but when I looked at the subject things became apparent to me.

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4 minutes ago, The Puzzler said:

Minoans…? Weren’t they taken over by Mycenaean Greeks?

Where early Romans learned their trade... As Mercenaries ...

~

4 minutes ago, The Puzzler said:

Etruscans, yes but tbh, they were their own worst enemies, I admire them very much, my favourite ancient culture but they seriously asked for it, they had no aptitude for moving forward and should have just worked with them instead of fighting them the whole way. 

This is you putting lipstick on the sow and marrying it off to a King of a foreign land as the fairest Princess of all and pretending it doesn't know any better... 

~

4 minutes ago, The Puzzler said:

I do not think they stole Juno from the Greeks, as their Hera. 

Oh by Jupiter... 

~

 

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7 minutes ago, SHaYap said:

Where early Romans learned their trade... As Mercenaries ...

~

This is you putting lipstick on the sow and marrying it off to a King of a foreign land as the fairest Princess of all and pretending it doesn't know any better... 

~

Oh by Jupiter... 

~

 

The Greeks were the copycats…

However, this thread is not about that…it’s about why did the Romans choose that date and what astronomical/astrological importance does it hold?

https://www.electimuss.com/gateway-to-the-gods/

To realise the significance the Romans placed on astronomy, look no further than the fact that the planets and stars are named after Roman gods.

Gazing up at the night sky with its infinite beauty and power, it’s impossible not to have a sense of eternal wonder and fascination. The Romans widely practised astronomy and believed the heavens were the gateway to the gods.

To realise the significance the Romans placed on astronomy, look no further than the fact that the planets and stars are named after Roman gods. With the exception of Uranus, named after the Greek god of the skies, the names we use today for the planets and celestial bodies are a gift from the Romans. Jupiter is the Roman god of the sky and thunder, the King of the Roman gods. Mars is the god of war and Venus the goddess of love. Mercury was the swift messenger and considered the most intelligent of the gods. Saturn was the god of agriculture, and Neptune the god of the oceans. And it wasn’t just the planets, all visible celestial bodies including asteroids were also named after gods and goddesses like Vesta, goddess of purity, hearth and home.Jupiter

Their fascination didn’t end with the scientific study of planetary activity. The Romans believed the night sky illuminated their destiny, practising divination through zodiac signs and horoscopes. 

Until the 17th century, there wasn’t the distinction we see today between astrology and astronomy. Ancient beliefs that the heavens conferred an ability to foretell the future aren’t surprising when you consider that a deep knowledge of the stars and planets helped predict the seasons, tides, rain, drought, when to harvest, when to move herds and notable events such as a solar eclipses or the flooding of great rivers. Guided by the night sky, Romans navigated the empire, in fact astronomy was at the very epicentre of Roman culture, politics, religious belief and philosophical thought, astronomy shaped the course of human history over many millennia. ”

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They try and tie Homer in earlier and earlier to offset the Greeks were just little children who knew nothing but what poets spoon fed them, they didn’t know how to revere their Gods properly even, we barely know, because it’s such a mish mash of ridiculousness.

Romans were straight and narrow, and knew who and what they were worshipping and why.

This is why I believe this date has some merit of a day of importance, in astronomy at least.

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1 hour ago, Windowpane said:

Apparently, he used various sources: myths, legends, traditions, all sorts.

More information to be found in (the 41 books of) Antiquitates rerum humanarum et divinarum - or, at least, it could be if the work hadn't been lost.

The work is based on Stoic sources. Varro refutes the poetic or "mythical theology" as popular superstition, complaining that the pure veneration of the divine had been spoiled by the influence of the poets, but he considers valuable the philosophical debate on the nature of the gods.[3] Varro presents the Roman king  Numa Pompilius as a paragon of ancient piety. Numa was associated with Pythagoreanism, even though Varro granted that Numa could not have been a Pythagorean since he lived before Pythagoras himself.”

Poets….So, maybe Pythagoras got his ideas from Numa.

 

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25 minutes ago, The Puzzler said:

The Greeks were the copycats…

In a way, not entirely inaccurate, they learned a lot from ancient Babylon and Egypt ...

~

25 minutes ago, The Puzzler said:

However, this thread is not about that…it’s about why did the Romans choose that date and what astronomical/astrological importance does it hold?

The date was chosen because that's as far back they could spin the hoary tale of twins suckling on a wolf... 

Did they know the significance of the astronomy / astrology importance? To a few perhaps... 

Quote
The majority of the lands conquered by the Romans spoke Greek. Many educated Romans also spoke Greek, which became the second official language of the Roman Empire, alongside Latin. A strong Greek influence is evident in the works of Roman playwrights such as Plautus and Terence.
 

 

 
...
 
Oscan. Oscan was the most widely spoken Italic language before the spread of Latin, prominent in Bruttium, Lucania, Campania, Samnium, and elsewhere throughout central and southern Italy.13 Nov 2015
 

 

~

 

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See also (same authors as  #21 ):Technical Chronology and Astrological History in Varro, Censorinus and Others 

The Classical Quarterly, Vol. 35, No. 2 (1985), pp. 454-465 (12 pages)
Many references to, and discussion of, "April" and "21 April."
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35 minutes ago, SHaYap said:

In a way, not entirely inaccurate, they learned a lot from ancient Babylon and Egypt ...

~

The date was chosen because that's as far back they could spin the hoary tale of twins suckling on a wolf... 

Did they know the significance of the astronomy / astrology importance? To a few perhaps... 

 

~

 

Having a lot of trouble copy/pasting links, that is Science ABC

8DFFA29D-6BFF-40FC-B4F4-AAF41C054DC5.jpeg

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