Project shows Gazans' lack of support for Hamas

[docyabut2]

Voices from Gaza' creator Joseph Braude on a project he started that safely shows Gazans' refusal to support Hamas 

https://www.foxnews.com/video/6340607325112

 

[Alchopwn]

I found this little gem of a video on YouTube, about why none of the "alleged Palestinians" are welcome in other Arab countries:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7GAg8sWDpI

[Saru]

Thread cleaned

I've removed the dozen or so posts in this thread to get a fresh start due to some of the comments and links that were posted here.

To all - please keep your comments civil and respectful, especially when discussing such a sensitive issue as the current situation in the Middle-East.

Also, please avoid posting links to articles containing graphic, violent or disturbing imagery.

Thank you.

[+and-then]

There is good reason to pity the children born into this culture and the war makes things for them even worse but to prioritize their safety over the lives of other innocents simply isn't acceptable.  IF Israel is allowed to press this war to a true conclusion where Hamas is removed from power and most of its leadership neutralized or permanently deported, the Gazans will be left with the choice to make peace or go back to what they're experiencing now.  History indicates they're most likely to return to the path of hate and conflict.  

[Unusual Tournament]

This is no surprise nor should the Palestinians aspire for a truly independent Palestinian state when the wrong government (like Hamas) have truly devastating effects when employing terror as a means of political power. 
 

Anyone thinking that Israel (regardless of which bipolar political party of the day has power) will allow a truly independent Palestinian foreign policy with the possibility of Islamic or foreign powers aligning OR deploying foreign troops on Israel’s underbelly borders is sadly mistaken.

The Palestinians need to understand peace and statehood is not a blank cheque to do as they like. You cannot act as gangsters or default to past mistreatment to make excuses for said behaviour. Hamas or any other Palestinian government in power must realise they will be eternal neighbours with a unique and powerful neighbour. 

Edited November 8, 2023 by Unusual Tournament

[Alchopwn]

14 hours ago, and-then said:

There is good reason to pity the children born into this culture and the war makes things for them even worse but to prioritize their safety over the lives of other innocents simply isn't acceptable.  IF Israel is allowed to press this war to a true conclusion where Hamas is removed from power and most of its leadership neutralized or permanently deported, the Gazans will be left with the choice to make peace or go back to what they're experiencing now.  History indicates they're most likely to return to the path of hate and conflict.  

I strongly suspect that Gaza will be permanently depopulated, and the Gazans will be sent to the West Bank, and the loving care of their fellow Palestinians and co-religionists who have a moral and religious duty to care for them 😂.

[Raptor Witness]

On 11/8/2023 at 1:13 PM, and-then said:

History indicates they're most likely to return to the path of hate and conflict. 

This is genocidal nonsense. You’re using Old Testament ideas to suggest that the children of Gaza, have some sort of genetic or non-secular flaw that makes them “evil.”

You do realize that these children are becoming more liberal, like younger Americans?

Your “history” would have U.S. living under a divisive dictator. I would like to see U.S. loosen immigration policies towards the children of Gaza.

[+OverSword]

On 11/13/2023 at 2:52 AM, Raptor Witness said:

This is genocidal nonsense. You’re using Old Testament ideas to suggest that the children of Gaza, have some sort of genetic or non-secular flaw that makes them “evil.”

I don't agree with your assessment of his post.  I also predict that this military action will ferment more hatred for Israel on a the younger generation living through it and that at some point, as it has time and again, hostilities will resume.

[+and-then]

On 11/13/2023 at 4:52 AM, Raptor Witness said:

This is genocidal nonsense. You’re using Old Testament ideas to suggest that the children of Gaza, have some sort of genetic or non-secular flaw that makes them “evil.”

You do realize that these children are becoming more liberal, like younger Americans?

Your “history” would have U.S. living under a divisive dictator. I would like to see U.S. loosen immigration policies towards the children of Gaza.

You really are a one-trick pony, aren't ya?   Pssst... THIS topic isn't about Orange Man Bad.  History is the only thing we have to assess the likelihood of future events.  Unless you can cite an event that indicates these people have ever made a deal and KEPT IT, I'd suggest you go away and stop bothering the adults.  Oh, and those poor children?  They are raised on hate beginning with their mother's milk.  The finishing schools are paid for by UNRWA. 

[+and-then]

1 hour ago, OverSword said:

I don't agree with your assessment of his post.  I also predict that this military action will ferment more hatred for Israel on a the younger generation living through it and that at some point, as it has time and again, hostilities will resume.

Fair enough.  What would you predict will be the course of events if Israel refrained from fighting back?  If the idea is that they could fight Hamas without harming civilians then perhaps you could explain how that would happen.  It's been proven that these tunnels and bunkers are intentionally placed where striking them WILL KILL CIVILIANS.  As I see it, that leaves Israel with surrender or finally doing whatever it takes to destroy the threat and if that threat reconstitutes then rinse and repeat.  Yes, it IS horrific but surrendering to these demons would mean all of Israel facing the same thing the Kibbutzim suffered on 10/7.  Anyone who doubts that is beyond having a rational discourse with on this topic.

ETA - that wasn't intended as an attack, I'm just interested to hear other ideas of how Israel could solve this issue without endless war.

Edited November 15, 2023 by and-then

[+OverSword]

8 minutes ago, and-then said:

What would you predict will be the course of events if Israel refrained from fighting back?

Then hamas will go door to door killing everyone.  They have already stated from the river to the sea is Palestine and that no Jew can live in Palestine.  I take them at their word that it is what they believe.

[Raptor Witness]

32 minutes ago, and-then said:

Oh, and those poor children?  They are raised on hate beginning with their mother's milk. 

In other words, their problem is ethnic. Thanks for solidifying my observation about your post. “They are …”

These children had access to the Internet. Gaza isn’t a closed society.

Hate is not endemic, as you’re teaching here. If it was, we wouldn’t have made the progress we have, in our country.

 

[+and-then]

16 minutes ago, Raptor Witness said:

These children had access to the Internet. Gaza isn’t a closed society.

I'm not even sure what your point is here.  Children who are taught to hate by cartoon figures that look like Mickey and Minnie, have a hard time thinking beyond that as it is reinforced at home, in school, AND by most if not all adults around them.  

[+OverSword]

41 minutes ago, Raptor Witness said:

In other words, their problem is ethnic. Thanks for solidifying my observation about your post. “They are …”

These children had access to the Internet. Gaza isn’t a closed society.

Hate is not endemic, as you’re teaching here. If it was, we wouldn’t have made the progress we have, in our country.

 

Before Gaza was closed up due to all the suicide bombings in the early 2000's there were interviews with Palestinian parents declaring the pride they had for their children martyring themselves.  There is a lot of brainwashing and extremism there.

Edited November 15, 2023 by OverSword

[Setton]

1 hour ago, OverSword said:

There is a lot of brainwashing and extremism there

And why do you think that is? Why do you think the population is receptive to that message?

2 million people don't just wake up one day and decide they're willing to die and see their children die to attack another group of people.

[Setton]

2 hours ago, and-then said:

Oh, and those poor children?  They are raised on hate beginning with their mother's milk.

So.... any thoughts on what that means for Israeli children "raised on hate with their mother's milk"?

Fair game too?

https://forward.com/opinion/197866/when-israelis-teach-their-kids-to-hate/

[+OverSword]

27 minutes ago, Setton said:

And why do you think that is? Why do you think the population is receptive to that message?

2 million people don't just wake up one day and decide they're willing to die and see their children die to attack another group of people.

https://honestreporting.com/in-depth-arafat-rejected-peace-in-2000/

From the river to the sea is all Palestine and it is unthinkable that a Jew should live there.  They could have had everything they supposedly wanted but denied it to their people.  Who are the real enemies of the Palestinian people?

Edited November 16, 2023 by OverSword

[Raptor Witness]

4 hours ago, OverSword said:

There is a lot of brainwashing and extremism there.

The “brainwashing” is teaching people that Gazan’s are ethnically flawed in ANY WAY.  We teach others by example. 

I’m not perfect in this, I’ll admit it, but we’re not at war with Gaza, and I’ve seen some interviews with some great people who live there.

[Alchopwn]

I'm going to post this video again.  It is a potted history of why the Palestinians are actually more hated than Israel in the Middle East, tho no Muslim would ever publicly admit it.  It covers why no neighboring countries want to give the Palestinians refuge.

 

 

[+OverSword]

13 hours ago, Raptor Witness said:

The “brainwashing” is teaching people that Gazan’s are ethnically flawed in ANY WAY.  

Got a link for that?

[Alchopwn]

On 11/16/2023 at 1:31 PM, Raptor Witness said:

The “brainwashing” is teaching people that Gazan’s are ethnically flawed in ANY WAY.  We teach others by example. 

I’m not perfect in this, I’ll admit it, but we’re not at war with Gaza, and I’ve seen some interviews with some great people who live there.

Do you mean "ethically" or "ethnically"?  Ethics relates to morality, and many Gazans ARE ethically appalling.  I have worked there as a translator, and they pimp and sexually abuse their kids like incest and prostitution is normal and expected behavior.  Incidentally, Islam does condone "thighing", but it is not limited to the thighs, as the buttocks are considered part of the thigh in Islamic practice.  As to people being ethnically flawed, well, ethnicity relates to a shared culture, language, values and history, and from a certain perspective it is very rude to call Gazans ethnically flawed, but then, they do decapitate babies and use their children as human shields, which suggests that their ethnicity has some issues. 

In any case, I doubt that you decapitate babies Raptor Witness, regardless of how unpleasant your personal habits and hobbies may be 😄.  Supporting Hamas and Gaza is a bit like standing up for the rights of serial killers imo.  Hamas started this fight, and Hamas are the ones who deliberately built their HQ under a hospital.  They don't get much sympathy from me.  Arnaud Amalric seems very quotable right now.

[qxcontinuum]

This is why is IMPORTANT TO REFUTE leaders and governments that represent toxic minorities. The majority of citizens in Gaza regardless of their affiliation are now suffering and dying cause of bad leadership and acceptance of this leadership. 

In the end my usual comment; nationalism is the worst form of indoctrination,  world leaders continue to inseminate into citizens of a country.

Edited November 17, 2023 by qxcontinuum