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UK proposes smoking ban in Kings Speech


pellinore

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This type of ban has been introduced in NZ. I can't see quite how it works- 13-year-olds will be banned from buying cigarettes. Fair enough, that is already illegal. But then they are tracked through their lifetimes and will never be able to buy cigarettes. (Presumably it will be enforced with fines). So, in 7 years' time, no-one under the age of 20 will be able to buy cigarettes? But someone 21 years old will be able to? Does anyone understand this proposed legislation?

Will Rishi Sunak's 'illiberal' smoking ban even work? As PM vows to stop kids aged 14 now from EVER buying cigarettes, experts cherish historic, New Zealand-style law but critics say flaws could create a black market

Health thinktanks urged PM to not to back down like he had on junk food policy 

Under the Prime Minister's flagship proposal, which he himself labelled the 'biggest public health intervention in a generation', anyone born after 2009 will be banned from ever buying cigarettes. 

If passed, it would annually raise the age at which people can purchase tobacco by one year, putting legal smoking out of reach of anyone aged under 14 today.

Will Rishi Sunak's 'illiberal' smoking ban even work? As PM vows to stop kids aged 14 now from EVER buying cigarettes, experts cherish historic, New Zealand-style law but critics say flaws could create a black market | Daily Mail Online

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I'm all for getting people to stop smoking, but this legislation is really bizarre.

It means that, for example if you take two people born one day apart, one of them before the legislation date and one after - the oldest of the two will be able to buy and smoke cigarettes their entire life without issue, while the other - born a mere few hours later - will never be able to legally smoke and would be a criminal for doing so.

I can't see this being enforced.

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21 minutes ago, Saru said:

I'm all for getting people to stop smoking, but this legislation is really bizarre.

It means that, for example if you take two people born one day apart, one of them before the legislation date and one after - the oldest of the two will be able to buy and smoke cigarettes their entire life without issue, while the other - born a mere few hours later - will never be able to legally smoke and would be a criminal for doing so.

I can't see this being enforced.

I know what you mean, but it does seem the easiest way of gradually outlawing it (albeit there will always be "illegal" smokers so long as tobacco can be smuggled in from abroad!).

One way to enforce it is to issue a card to all smokers, which must be presented when making a purchase along with age verification for online purchases.   I very much doubt the Govt have given this much thought though, they seem quite incapable of thinking through anything these days (and I doubt any other political party would be much better).

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5 hours ago, pellinore said:

This type of ban has been introduced in NZ. I can't see quite how it works- 13-year-olds will be banned from buying cigarettes. Fair enough, that is already illegal. But then they are tracked through their lifetimes and will never be able to buy cigarettes. (Presumably it will be enforced with fines). So, in 7 years' time, no-one under the age of 20 will be able to buy cigarettes? But someone 21 years old will be able to? Does anyone understand this proposed legislation?

This is just Prohibition with extra steps.  Doesn't the UK have enough laws telling people that they can't take drugs?  All this will do is increase police and judiciary corruption and create a new black market.  The thing is, those who support this law will have already put moves in place to provide illicit tobacco products to under-agers who choose to smoke at a whopping great profit. It is a huge corrupt scam waiting to happen.

Think, just as we are getting ready to decriminalize marijuana, the UK Conservatives turn around and criminalize tobacco...  Does this not seem even slightly suspicious to you?

Edited by Alchopwn
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3 hours ago, Saru said:

I'm all for getting people to stop smoking, but this legislation is really bizarre.

It means that, for example if you take two people born one day apart, one of them before the legislation date and one after - the oldest of the two will be able to buy and smoke cigarettes their entire life without issue, while the other - born a mere few hours later - will never be able to legally smoke and would be a criminal for doing so.

I can't see this being enforced.

There is often an arbitrary cut-off, for example when you introduce new pension ages, or geographically with London travel zones. I can't see how it can be enforced (is every vendor of tobacco products supposed to run a computer check on the DOBs of every purchaser?), yet apparently it is up and running in NZ.

3 hours ago, Essan said:

I know what you mean, but it does seem the easiest way of gradually outlawing it (albeit there will always be "illegal" smokers so long as tobacco can be smuggled in from abroad!).

One way to enforce it is to issue a card to all smokers, which must be presented when making a purchase along with age verification for online purchases.   I very much doubt the Govt have given this much thought though, they seem quite incapable of thinking through anything these days (and I doubt any other political party would be much better).

I think they hope to cling to power by introducing "Long term decisions for a brighter future" and this can only come to fruition if they are granted another term in office. But I don't think the average voter will be impressed by this, they will be more concerned about the economy, inflation and job security.

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57 minutes ago, Alchopwn said:

This is just Prohibition with extra steps.  Doesn't the UK have enough laws telling people that they can't take drugs?  All this will do is increase police and judiciary corruption and create a new black market.  The thing is, those who support this law will have already put moves in place to provide illicit tobacco products to under-agers who choose to smoke at a whopping great profit. It is a huge corrupt scam waiting to happen.

Think, just as we are getting ready to decriminalize marijuana, the UK Conservatives turn around and criminalize tobacco...  Does this not seem even slightly suspicious to you?

I've had a search to see how NZ is getting on with it, but there isn't much info- perhaps it is too new:https://youtu.be/YzSzQg7PR8o?si=E_fkSZzYFOZgbinK.

 

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1 hour ago, Alchopwn said:

This is just Prohibition with extra steps.  Doesn't the UK have enough laws telling people that they can't take drugs?  All this will do is increase police and judiciary corruption and create a new black market.  The thing is, those who support this law will have already put moves in place to provide illicit tobacco products to under-agers who choose to smoke at a whopping great profit. It is a huge corrupt scam waiting to happen.

Think, just as we are getting ready to decriminalize marijuana, the UK Conservatives turn around and criminalize tobacco...  Does this not seem even slightly suspicious to you?

It is a law that would put all burden and responsabilty on the people with ciggarett manufacturers getting away.

Instead of punishing us, and I am a smoker and I hate it but need to contain my ptsd somehow, the production of tobaco products should be criminalized as well as trying to get help people to get rid of this unhealthy habbit by providing medical means in the short term which will have a positive impact on all around people's health in the long term as well as a reduction in future heatlhcare spending.

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  • 6 months later...

Rishi Sunak's flagship bill to eventually ban smoking looks set to be shelved after he called a surprise July general election.

The prime minister would not guarantee the law would pass before Parliament shuts down for the election on Friday.

Talks between the government and opposition parties over which bills to rush through before then are ongoing.

Labour has previously pledged to bring in the ban if it wins power at the election on Thursday 4 July.

Mr Sunak also remains committed to creating a "smoke-free generation" and the ban is likely to feature in the Conservative manifesto.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-69053763

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Banning things should not be the job of government. Providing evidence and choice is the reasonable thing to do in an open democratic society.

There are already many disincentives in place to stop smoking, the cost and where you can smoke to name two.

The fact it's considered a good idea shows the Tories have lost their way on pragmatic and soft touch policy making. 

Another thought, given the dire effects of smoking and the benefits of not, why is the average life span not changed significantly for the better?

No sign of cause and effect on the population?

 

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7 hours ago, L.A.T.1961 said:

Another thought, given the dire effects of smoking and the benefits of not, why is the average life span not changed significantly for the better?

No sign of cause and effect on the population?

Life span in the UK is falling, not due to smoking but to poverty.

Inequality of wealth is higher in the UK than average in the G7, the number of children in poverty is higher, and longevity is declining.

It is why we did Brexit, remember, so that wealth could be consolidated and kept out of reach of pesky state bureaucrats who like to enforce the law.

The UK has had enough of law, lawyers, healthcare, social care and experts. Let's just privatise everything and see what happens!

UK falling behind other countries on life expectancy measure | UK News | Sky News

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