Jump to content
Join the Unexplained Mysteries community today! It's free and setting up an account only takes a moment.
- Sign In or Create Account -

Mexico worshippers 'witnessed miracle' after Virgin Mary statue 'cries'


pellinore

Recommended Posts

11 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

More testimonials on the Milk Miracle

 

From Col. Bhardwaj (at left, with his wife, Hinduism Today correspondent Prabha) is a retired army officer with a degree in electrical and mechanical engineering as well as postgraduate diplomas in automotive engineering, armament and industrial management.

I am an engineer of long standing. The theory that capillary action caused the suction of hundreds of pints of milk by Deities of stone and metal as small as twelve by six inches is not possible. Most of the Deities are carved out of solid stone or cast of metal. Lord Ganesha's trunk takes a bend and makes a twist at the tip. Its tip only has a small hole, the rest is solid mass. This tip is not capable of holding even one spoonful of milk. In some of the murtis, the trunk falls straight and the tip does not have a hole. It sucked hundred of pints of milk in a few hours. No milk was seen flowing out of the body, and no mist was formed around the murtis. What shall we call it, other than Godly miracle?

 

seriously.gif

  • Haha 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't believe anything on the internet like this with no documented empirical evidence. Pointless, ludicrous, meaningless, blatant hoaxes manipulating religious fervor or inciting mass hysteria.

Edited by Hammerclaw
  • Like 3
  • Thanks 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Long but well-worth reading article about the so-called milk 'miracle' and the demystification of it.

How the Sangh Parivar Organised the 1995 Ganesh Milk Miracle and Why the Plan Flopped

https://thewire.in/religion/ganesh-milk-miracle-1995-sangh-parivar

The entire article should be read by those who are interested, but I will cite the most relevant section below. Of particular note are the two sentences in bold as they offer explanations as to why milk was not seen coating or accumulating around the statue (and why Col. Bhardwaj's analysis is most likely flawed).

Scientists and rationalists had explanations for the miracle. The first to demystify it was T. Jayaraman of the Institute of Mathematical Studies. He showed that the phenomenon was a play of surface tension and capillary action. Scientists from the Council of Scientific and Industrial Research were invited by TV news channels to explain with visuals how the siphon theory worked. The Union technology minister at the time directed a senior scientist to study the phenomenon. Indian Rationalist Association president Sanal Edamaruku showed close-ups of idols to explain how milk coated the idol, collected at the pedestal and flowed into the gutter. Another scientist said idols made of Mahabalipuram stone accepted milk more easily than those made of Orissa stone. India Today quoted psychologist Udayan Patel: “The point at which the milk disappeared is the point when the mind ceased to function.” The devotees, however, could not see the milk coating the idol; it was hidden beneath the garlands and flowers.

  • Thanks 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

41 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

Further reasons for my suspicion against your theory:

From Col. Bhardwaj (at left, with his wife, Hinduism Today correspondent Prabha) is a retired army officer with a degree in electrical and mechanical engineering as well as postgraduate diplomas in automotive engineering, armament and industrial management.

I am an engineer of long standing. The theory that capillary action caused the suction of hundreds of pints of milk by Deities of stone and metal as small as twelve by six inches is not possible. Most of the Deities are carved out of solid stone or cast of metal. Lord Ganesha's trunk takes a bend and makes a twist at the tip. Its tip only has a small hole, the rest is solid mass. This tip is not capable of holding even one spoonful of milk. In some of the murtis, the trunk falls straight and the tip does not have a hole. It sucked hundred of pints of milk in a few hours. No milk was seen flowing out of the body, and no mist was formed around the murtis. What shall we call it, other than Godly miracle?

Papa, are you really that idiotic to believe an article that says a little statue "sucked hundred (sic) of pints of milk in a few hours"? For a start, think about that statement. Did someone sit there "feeding" the statue with a teaspoon at a time? A teaspoon holds about 5ml on average, so it'd take 113.6 teaspoons for just one pint. That's 11360 teaspoons for 100 pints. It took roughly 30 seconds in one of your videos to drain just 1 teaspoon, so to drain 11360 teaspoons it'd take 11360x30 seconds = 340800 seconds, which equates to almost 4 days. That doesn't include pouring the milk into the spoon, tiredness breaks, etc. Notice I only used 100 pints when the article you've quoted suggests multiple hundreds. Or did someone just fill a big bath full of milk and threw the damned statue in it? Ultimately it doesn't matter because it's all make believe and fairy tales. Journalists also add crap such as titles (usually Dr., or in this case, a military rank) to give an air of respectability to their claims, then add a ton of false academic qualifications to bolster them. The only people it fools are gullible ones like you. Practices like these are particularly rife in places like India, where there's still a lot of superstition. At the end of the day it sells papers, even though it's utter fantasy.

Your naivety used to be amusing at first, now it's just draining. You go out of your way to believe crackpot stories, all the while discarding any scientific evidence that goes against your biased beliefs. You fail to understand the meaning of words like evidence, logic and science and you think everyone apart from yourself is a biased sceptic. You think you know better than anyone else. Don't you think there may be a good reason that 99.99% of people on here disagree with almost everything that you write? It's because you're an absolute loon.

  • Thanks 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Jaded1 said:

Papa, are you really that idiotic to believe an article that says a little statue "sucked hundred (sic) of pints of milk in a few hours"? For a start, think about that statement. Did someone sit there "feeding" the statue with a teaspoon at a time? A teaspoon holds about 5ml on average, so it'd take 113.6 teaspoons for just one pint. That's 11360 teaspoons for 100 pints. It took roughly 30 seconds in one of your videos to drain just 1 teaspoon, so to drain 11360 teaspoons it'd take 11360x30 seconds = 340800 seconds, which equates to almost 4 days. That doesn't include pouring the milk into the spoon, tiredness breaks, etc. Notice I only used 100 pints when the article you've quoted suggests multiple hundreds. Or did someone just fill a big bath full of milk and threw the damned statue in it? Ultimately it doesn't matter because it's all make believe and fairy tales. Journalists also add crap such as titles (usually Dr., or in this case, a military rank) to give an air of respectability to their claims, then add a ton of false academic qualifications to bolster them. The only people it fools are gullible ones like you. Practices like these are particularly rife in places like India, where there's still a lot of superstition. At the end of the day it sells papers, even though it's utter fantasy.

Your naivety used to be amusing at first, now it's just draining. You go out of your way to believe crackpot stories, all the while discarding any scientific evidence that goes against your biased beliefs. You fail to understand the meaning of words like evidence, logic and science and you think everyone apart from yourself is a biased sceptic. You think you know better than anyone else. Don't you think there may be a good reason that 99.99% of people on here disagree with almost everything that you write? It's because you're an absolute loon.

I saw the videos with huge lines of people with milk waiting their turn at a single statue. Who can best estimate the amount. The exact amount doesn't matter as long as it was an impossible amount for a capillary action explanation. The quality of some of the people I remember being interviewed was quite impressive.

India has other real miracles I have studied. Many concerning a particular Holy Man I've studied in depth. I'm sure they have their frauds too. 

The determined skeptics have their capillary explanation, and they can feel done with it. The evidence to me says that is not what happened, and they must scoff at any paranormal explanation. We can swap quotes and links all day long but at some point we each must judge who is playing the fairest with the facts. I believe the quantity that disappeared was too large for any natural explanation.

I believe we live in a universe with spiritual forces and the disappearance of milk paranormally is not that great a stretch to believe. For those of a materialist mindset it is infuriatingly ridiculous. 

And on we go.......

Ok. I'll keep going. My theory here is that a time limit was put on the miracle as it was only meant to encourage the devotees and not compel belief in the non-believers. Both sides are happy with their status quo of reality not being upset. I think this even resembles slow-drip alien disclosure. Nobody's status quo is ripped suddenly. There is probably greater wisdom at play in all this.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

38 minutes ago, Jaded1 said:

Papa, are you really that idiotic to believe an article that says a little statue "sucked hundred (sic) of pints of milk in a few hours"? For a start, think about that statement. Did someone sit there "feeding" the statue with a teaspoon at a time? A teaspoon holds about 5ml on average, so it'd take 113.6 teaspoons for just one pint. That's 11360 teaspoons for 100 pints. It took roughly 30 seconds in one of your videos to drain just 1 teaspoon, so to drain 11360 teaspoons it'd take 11360x30 seconds = 340800 seconds, which equates to almost 4 days. That doesn't include pouring the milk into the spoon, tiredness breaks, etc. Notice I only used 100 pints when the article you've quoted suggests multiple hundreds. Or did someone just fill a big bath full of milk and threw the damned statue in it? Ultimately it doesn't matter because it's all make believe and fairy tales. Journalists also add crap such as titles (usually Dr., or in this case, a military rank) to give an air of respectability to their claims, then add a ton of false academic qualifications to bolster them. The only people it fools are gullible ones like you. Practices like these are particularly rife in places like India, where there's still a lot of superstition. At the end of the day it sells papers, even though it's utter fantasy.

Your naivety used to be amusing at first, now it's just draining. You go out of your way to believe crackpot stories, all the while discarding any scientific evidence that goes against your biased beliefs. You fail to understand the meaning of words like evidence, logic and science and you think everyone apart from yourself is a biased sceptic. You think you know better than anyone else. Don't you think there may be a good reason that 99.99% of people on here disagree with almost everything that you write? It's because you're an absolute loon.

He was a slippery baby, of that there's no doubt.

  • Haha 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

At the 1:

00 mark a British journalist was on scene during the alleged miraculous time frame

  • Haha 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, pellinore said:

What I don't understand is why God would perform these miracles. I know He moves in mysterious ways, but it seems a bit pointless.

He has a lot of time on his hands.

  • Thanks 2
  • Haha 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Of the Elohim, it is not only Satan that walks to and fro in the Earth and up and down in it.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, pellinore said:

What I don't understand is why God would perform these miracles. I know He moves in mysterious ways, but it seems a bit pointless.

My understanding would be to encourage the followers in this time of much arragonant scientific superiority. We (God is his many forms) do really exist and do love/care. Sounds like a valuable point to make. 

The Problem of Evil can be and has been a separate discussion if that's where you want to take your argument.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

My understanding would be to encourage the followers in this time of much arragonant scientific superiority. We (God is his many forms) do really exist and do love/care. Sounds like a valuable point to make. 

Don't you think it would be a tad more impressive if he made one blink? You know... something that those damn pesky, 'arragonant' scientific superiors would be hard pushed disproving. 

Edited by Stiff
  • Like 5
  • Haha 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Stiff said:

Don't you think it would be a tad more impressive if he made one blink? You know... something that those damn pesky, 'arragonant' scientific superiors would be hard pushed disproving. 

 

  • Haha 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

35 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

My understanding would be to encourage the followers in this time of much arragonant scientific superiority. We (God is his many forms) do really exist and do love/care. Sounds like a valuable point to make. 

The Problem of Evil can be and has been a separate discussion if that's where you want to take your argument.

Bit underwhelming, imo. I imagine the father of a hostage shaking his fist at the sky and shouting "God, show them your power!", and God says "Okay" and makes a statue in a Mexican village cry.

  • Thanks 1
  • Haha 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

31 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

 

laughing-hysterically-laugh.gif

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
  • Haha 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

24 minutes ago, pellinore said:

Bit underwhelming, imo. I imagine the father of a hostage shaking his fist at the sky and shouting "God, show them your power!", and God says "Okay" and makes a statue in a Mexican village cry.

It appears the devotees the signs are intended for are very pleased and thankful. The nonbelievers are allowed to ignore.

And the Problem of Evil is its own separate discussion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

<edit>

 

Edited by papageorge1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

If it is a doctored video, how were there eyewitnesses too? I know they are hysterics/liars along with editing technology.

Looks like you answered your own question.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Kittens Are Jerks said:

Looks like you answered your own question.

And here's from a Christian Today article

Escamilla added that more than 20 paranormal specialists, as well as priests, sculptors, editors and special effects designers, have spent hours analysing the footage, and they have found no evidence that supports the video has been doctored.

As for the church authorities under the Diocese of Saltillo, they have dismissed the footage and even refused to watch it.

I would put more faith in even Christian Toay than Snopes or Skeptical Inquirer

  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

I would put more faith in even Christian Toay than Snopes or Skeptical Inquirer

Of course you would. Especially if you want to brush off actual facts like they were annoying little midges and grasp desperately to the hope that's it's something magical.  cuckoo.gif

OPEN YOUR EYES MAN.  

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

I would put more faith in even Christian Toay than Snopes or Skeptical Inquirer

And that, my friends, says it all in a nutshell. You'd believe an evangelical Christian magazine with its own biased agenda, founded by Billy Graham. He was totally legit, wasn't he? :whistle:

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/17/2023 at 12:38 PM, papageorge1 said:

Further reasons for my suspicion against your theory:

From Col. Bhardwaj (at left, with his wife, Hinduism Today correspondent Prabha) is a retired army officer with a degree in electrical and mechanical engineering as well as postgraduate diplomas in automotive engineering, armament and industrial management.

I am an engineer of long standing. The theory that capillary action caused the suction of hundreds of pints of milk by Deities of stone and metal as small as twelve by six inches is not possible. Most of the Deities are carved out of solid stone or cast of metal. Lord Ganesha's trunk takes a bend and makes a twist at the tip. Its tip only has a small hole, the rest is solid mass. This tip is not capable of holding even one spoonful of milk. In some of the murtis, the trunk falls straight and the tip does not have a hole. It sucked hundred of pints of milk in a few hours. No milk was seen flowing out of the body, and no mist was formed around the murtis. What shall we call it, other than Godly miracle?

22 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

I saw the videos with huge lines of people with milk waiting their turn at a single statue. Who can best estimate the amount. The exact amount doesn't matter as long as it was an impossible amount for a capillary action explanation. The quality of some of the people I remember being interviewed was quite impressive.

India has other real miracles I have studied. Many concerning a particular Holy Man I've studied in depth. I'm sure they have their frauds too. 

The determined skeptics have their capillary explanation, and they can feel done with it. The evidence to me says that is not what happened, and they must scoff at any paranormal explanation. We can swap quotes and links all day long but at some point we each must judge who is playing the fairest with the facts. I believe the quantity that disappeared was too large for any natural explanation.

I believe we live in a universe with spiritual forces and the disappearance of milk paranormally is not that great a stretch to believe. For those of a materialist mindset it is infuriatingly ridiculous. 

And on we go.......

Ok. I'll keep going. My theory here is that a time limit was put on the miracle as it was only meant to encourage the devotees and not compel belief in the non-believers. Both sides are happy with their status quo of reality not being upset. I think this even resembles slow-drip alien disclosure. Nobody's status quo is ripped suddenly. There is probably greater wisdom at play in all this.

 

Yep, one quote from a seemingly scientifically educated human being claiming physically impossible events without showing any empirical evidence or analysis to supplement his claim. Assuming the quote is real in the first place, this is totally going to convince the scientific community that capillary action wasn't responsible and something extraordinary happened! Every scientist and engineer in the world, pack your bags and revoke your degrees and licenses. We're going to build buildings, roads, bridges, and dams using spiritual forces now. To the forensic engineers and material scientists, the reason infrastructure and materials fail is due to not accounting for spiritual forces as I'm sure you've all discovered by now in your analyses. To my research students...no need to defend your dissertations and theses, just give me a few half-baked sentences and throw in some engineering terminology and I'll believe all your findings and assumptions are sound. Congrats on obtaining your Master's and PhD with just a few sentences!

Do you hear how utterly stupid you sound Papa? Your standards for evidence are absolute garbage compared to actual standards for evidence used professionally to build the entire world we live in. The only quantity, quality, and consistency is the stupidity and delusion that you and others who think similarly to you reek of. 

I want to see you build a world using standards that you deem adequate. I wonder how long until that world burns? 

Edited by csspwns
  • Like 4
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Stiff said:

 

OPEN YOUR EYES MAN.  

Just kind of notice how I keep a higher level of conversation than the determined skeptics....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.