Turkey exports 16 tons of explosives to Gaza

[Unusual Tournament]

Israel intercepts 16 tons of chemicals used in rocket fuel headed to Gaza from Turkey

Authorities say July shipment of ammonium chloride was hidden in containers of plaster, discovered by customs officials at Ashdod port
 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-foils-attempt-to-smuggle-into-gaza-16-tons-of-chemicals-used-in-rocket-fuel/amp/

[Unusual Tournament]

When the dust settles, Turkey will have a lot of explaining to do. What did it really know about the timing of this war

[odas]

12 minutes ago, Unusual Tournament said:

When the dust settles, Turkey will have a lot of explaining to do. What did it really know about the timing of this war

Nothing. Then we have to accuse every constraction company in the world for the same. They all use it in construction, ashfalt paving, roofing, coating....

Times of Israel, Times of lies.

[Unusual Tournament]

2 minutes ago, odas said:

Nothing. Then we have to accuse every constraction company in the world for the same. They all use it in construction, ashfalt paving, roofing, coating....

Times of Israel, Times of lies.

You’re a funny guy, odas. Turkey Hamas ties are deep and well known. When it comes time to rebuild Gaza Turkey can export even more explosives 🙃

[Buzz_Light_Year]

4 minutes ago, odas said:

Nothing. Then we have to accuse every constraction company in the world for the same. They all use it in construction, ashfalt paving, roofing, coating....

Times of Israel, Times of lies.

If it had been a legitimate shipment then it wouldn't have been hidden would it?

[odas]

36 minutes ago, Buzz_Light_Year said:

If it had been a legitimate shipment then it wouldn't have been hidden would it?

That was a July shipment. Article is from end of september which is closer to the october 7 attack that the mighty IDF did not know about? Hell they know when you fart but they did not know about the attack? Ha.

[Buzz_Light_Year]

8 minutes ago, odas said:

That was a July shipment. Article is from end of september which is closer to the october 7 attack that the mighty IDF did not know about? Hell they know when you fart but they did not know about the attack? Ha.

I doubt that even Hamas unit commanders knew of the attack until 24 hours before. The less information is disseminated the less chance for compromise. 

[+and-then]

Erdog needs to be pushed out of NATO and US bases need to be removed from Turkey.  Either the Turks really want him and keep voting for him or he is effective enough at stealing that he's a defacto dictator, anyway.  He will only harm the west more, the longer we delay the break.

[+and-then]

2 hours ago, odas said:

Nothing. Then we have to accuse every constraction company in the world for the same. They all use it in construction, ashfalt paving, roofing, coating....

Times of Israel, Times of lies.

From our friends at Wiki...

What is ammonium chloride is used for?

It is used in fertilizers as a nitrogen source. It is used in medicine (especially in cough medicine) as an expectorant. It is used in glue which helps to bond plywood. It is used in Leclanche cells in aqueous solutions.

[Setton]

14 hours ago, Buzz_Light_Year said:

I doubt that even Hamas unit commanders knew of the attack until 24 hours before. The less information is disseminated the less chance for compromise. 

And yet somehow Egypt knew of it and warned Israel.

Israel just didn't act on the warning.

[bmk1245]

7 hours ago, Setton said:

And yet somehow Egypt knew of it and warned Israel.

Israel just didn't act on the warning.

That was nagging me... How the hell Israeli intelligence missed attack?!!!

I'm on conspiracy wave - someone knew, but to hell with Bibi, will have spike to his bottom...

[Buzz_Light_Year]

7 hours ago, Setton said:

And yet somehow Egypt knew of it and warned Israel.

Israel just didn't act on the warning.

Yeah and the German high command knew there was an imminent invasion of France coming and yet they were still caught flat footed. Thousands of ships and planes crossed the Channel that day and it came as a surprise to the German albeit not a complete surprise.

Having credible information of an attack doesn't mean squat unless you know when.

Yet I think the Israeli's should have heightened security in place around the time of Yom Kippur as they were fooled once.

The old saying: "Fool me once shame on you", "Fool me twice shame on me"

 

[Antigonos]

15 minutes ago, Buzz_Light_Year said:

Yeah and the German high command knew there was an imminent invasion of France coming and yet they were still caught flat footed. Thousands of ships and planes crossed the Channel that day and it came as a surprise to the German albeit not a complete surprise.

 

Huh?

[Buzz_Light_Year]

Just now, Antigonos said:

Huh?

Really isn't hard to understand.

[Antigonos]

Duplicate 

Edited November 18, 2023 by Antigonos

[Antigonos]

9 minutes ago, Buzz_Light_Year said:

Really isn't hard to understand.

I think you have your historical facts and geography garbled.  Or it’s your lacking communication skills.
 

What Channel did the Germans need to cross to invade France? The German high command were caught off guard by an invasion of France they planned and executed? 
It was a surprise to the Germans but not a complete surprise? 
 

 

 

Edited November 18, 2023 by Antigonos

[Buzz_Light_Year]

1 minute ago, Antigonos said:

I think you have your historical facts and geography garbled. 

No I don't think you understand that I was drawing a parallel to the Germans knowing an attack was coming from across the channel to the Israeli's having information an attack by Hamas was coming. Both were caught off-guard. 

[Buzz_Light_Year]

39 minutes ago, Antigonos said:

Or it’s your lacking communication skills.

Ah! Yes throw out the insults that are a trademark of UM posters. Oh and just for the record it's you're not your.

[Setton]

3 hours ago, bmk1245 said:

That was nagging me... How the hell Israeli intelligence missed attack?!!!

I'm on conspiracy wave - someone knew, but to hell with Bibi, will have spike to his bottom...

They didn't miss it, Egypt provided the intel.

Israel just dismissed it. Possibly politics like you say I guess. Personally I think it looks like a case of human error and bad timing - lower staff over holidays, someone discounted the intel when they shouldn't have.

3 hours ago, Buzz_Light_Year said:

Yeah and the German high command knew there was an imminent invasion of France coming and yet they were still caught flat footed. Thousands of ships and planes crossed the Channel that day and it came as a surprise to the German albeit not a complete surprise.

Having credible information of an attack doesn't mean squat unless you know when. twice shame on me"

Due to an extensive Allied counter intelligence operation, not because they didn't know when. Read up on Operation Double Cross.

I've seen nothing to suggest Hamas deployed a similar strategy. Egypt warned Israel a massive attack was imminent. Israel chose not to act on those warnings.

Quote

Yet I think the Israeli's should have heightened security in place around the time of Yom Kippur as they were fooled once.

The old saying: "Fool me once shame on you", "Fool me

Given they were forewarned, all the more reason. As above though, I think they were caught off guard due to lower staffing and one poor assessment.

[spartan max2]

On 11/17/2023 at 3:03 PM, and-then said:

Erdog needs to be pushed out of NATO and US bases need to be removed from Turkey.  Either the Turks really want him and keep voting for him or he is effective enough at stealing that he's a defacto dictator, anyway.  He will only harm the west more, the longer we delay the break.

How would that benefit us?

I could see like a moral argument made, but in regards to your bolded sentence. What does kicking Turkey out of NATO and pulling our bases out do for the west exactly in a practical sense.?

Edited November 18, 2023 by spartan max2

[bmk1245]

37 minutes ago, Setton said:

They didn't miss it, Egypt provided the intel.

Israel just dismissed it. Possibly politics like you say I guess. Personally I think it looks like a case of human error and bad timing - lower staff over holidays, someone discounted the intel when they shouldn't have.

 

If thats true, thats major flop, huge flop.

I hope investigation will reveal culprits.

[Tom1200]

16 hours ago, Setton said:

They didn't miss it, Egypt provided the intel.

How do we know this is true?

The only references I can find for this claim all come from 11th-12th October, right at the start of this crisis.  All sorts of wild allegations were circulating in the media.  (A media which, IMO, was making conspicuously little effort to scrutinise the accuracy of sensational claims, many of which have since been debunked.)

This from the BBC, but there's carbon-copy reporting on many platforms.

"Israel was warned by Egypt of potential violence three days before Hamas' deadly cross-border raid, a US congressional panel chairman has said.

House of Representatives Foreign Affairs Committee head Michael McCaul told reporters of the alleged warning.

Israeli PM Benjamin Netanyahu described the reports as "absolutely false".

An Egyptian intelligence official told the Associated Press news agency this week that Cairo had repeatedly warned the Israelis "something big" was being planned from Gaza.

"We have warned them an explosion of the situation is coming, and very soon, and it would be big. But they underestimated such warnings," said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity."

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67082047.amp

So it's possible that 'an anonymous official' told Michael McCaul "we thought Hamas were planning something and warned Mossad".  Is that the same as suggesting they had detailed prior knowledge and passed on useful information?

I'm not looking to get the Israeli authorities off the hook here.  They utterly failed in a chief duty of government - to protect themselves.  But a lot of these allegations promulgated in the early days sought to divert attention from the barbaric actions of Hamas (and, let's not forget, non-Hamas individuals joined in).

[+and-then]

There will be a VERY thorough investigation and they usually do those things of great importance in an open and bipartisan way.  Unlike the dog and pony TV dramas here, they know that if they play such games it could quite soon mean the end of them all.  Netanyahu will finally have been beaten permanently and he will have done it to himself by allowing the distractions of his enemies on the Left to lose focus on the truly important responsibilities.  The bottom line is Hamas managed to hoodwink a government that had many other pressing matters on their minds.  I hope the Israelis have better sense than to imagine that a Left-leaning government will do a better job of protecting them going forward.

Someone like Lapid - or most others on the Left - will bow to Bidenbama and agree to giving these same Palestinians land and put the PA in charge of it.  The only difference between the PA and Hamas is where their funding comes from.  If they put the PA in control, the daily shootings and stabbings will continue.  The riots and stone throwers will be constant, and standing in any group in public near a roadway will make Jews a target of some Arab in a car or truck.  If what happened on 10/7 wasn't enough to cause a paradigm shift, then Israelis have no one to blame but themselves.  If they truly cannot go their own way and ignore a rogue US administration's demands, then they will forever be in mortal peril.

[Gummug]

20 hours ago, Buzz_Light_Year said:

Yeah and the German high command knew there was an imminent invasion of France coming and yet they were still caught flat footed. Thousands of ships and planes crossed the Channel that day and it came as a surprise to the German albeit not a complete surprise.

Having credible information of an attack doesn't mean squat unless you know when.

Yet I think the Israeli's should have heightened security in place around the time of Yom Kippur as they were fooled once.

The old saying: "Fool me once shame on you", "Fool me twice shame on me"

 

I agree, but I thought most of the ships sailed across the Atlantic from America? I could be wrong*shrugs*

[Buzz_Light_Year]

44 minutes ago, Gummug said:

I agree, but I thought most of the ships sailed across the Atlantic from America? I could be wrong*shrugs*

The buildup to D-Day was enormous and the amount of supplies and troops sent to Britain was staggering in the months preceding D-Day. How the German High Command missed it would be hard to explain.

https://www.historyonthenet.com/d-day

Quote

The buildup to D-Day was undertaken by Operation Bolero, a logistical effort of unprecedented magnitude. Sailing on now-secure sea routes, the U.S. Navy and merchant marine took 1,200,000 troops to Britain, where hundreds of camps and bases were established and supplied with everything from chewing gum to bombers. Britain’s existing infrastructure was inadequate to support the massive effort, so a thousand locomotives and twenty thousand freight cars were shipped from the United States, plus material for hundreds of miles of additional rail lines. Transatlantic shipments increased to the point that some 1,900,000 tons of supplies reached Britain in May 1944 alone, showing the scale of logistics.

Today they couldn't hide a buildup like that and quite frankly I don't see how they did it then. You still had the Luftwaffe doing reconnaissance missions over England and they still had U-Boats patrolling the seas and Germany also had spies on the ground.

Yeah they had their inflatable equipment that they staged across England mostly in the Calais area where Germany thought they would attack but even with that it would be hard to mask that much equipment along with troop movements.