Turkey exports 16 tons of explosives to Gaza

[+joc]

On 11/18/2023 at 3:20 AM, Setton said:

And yet somehow Egypt knew of it and warned Israel.

Israel just didn't act on the warning.

I'm thinking they didn't act on it on purpose.  Seems maybe a damned if you do damned if you don't scenario. Attack first?  You get labeled as the genocidal aggressor. Attack second your defense is labeled as genocidal.

Or...through their arrogance they believed the magic dome would protect them.

Edited November 19, 2023 by joc

[A rather obscure Bassoon]

On 11/18/2023 at 4:20 AM, Setton said:

And yet somehow Egypt knew of it and warned Israel.

Israel just didn't act on the warning.

Without being too Conspiracy minded I think maybe the hawks chose to ignore it.

Apologies for posting a response already posted.

Edited November 19, 2023 by A rather obscure Bassoon

[A rather obscure Bassoon]

On 11/17/2023 at 3:03 PM, and-then said:

Erdog needs to be pushed out of NATO and US bases need to be removed from Turkey.  Either the Turks really want him and keep voting for him or he is effective enough at stealing that he's a defacto dictator, anyway.  He will only harm the west more, the longer we delay the break.

Erdo needs NATO too much to allow a situation where he would be kicked out hence his constant tight rope walk between NATO, Russia and regional players.

He probably gets more intelligence from NATO listening posts than he ever would from his own lntelligence agency as good and experienced as it is.

 

[Setton]

7 hours ago, Gummug said:

I agree, but I thought most of the ships sailed across the Atlantic from America? I could be wrong*shrugs*

You could be and are. Americans made up less than half the D-day force and a small minority of the ships deployed. The overwhelming majority were British ships.

6 hours ago, Buzz_Light_Year said:

The buildup to D-Day was enormous and the amount of supplies and troops sent to Britain was staggering in the months preceding D-Day. How the German High Command missed it would be hard to explain.

https://www.historyonthenet.com/d-day

Today they couldn't hide a buildup like that and quite frankly I don't see how they did it then. You still had the Luftwaffe doing reconnaissance missions over England and they still had U-Boats patrolling the seas and Germany also had spies on the ground.

Yeah they had their inflatable equipment that they staged across England mostly in the Calais area where Germany thought they would attack but even with that it would be hard to mask that much equipment along with troop movements. 

They did know the invasion was coming. That's where the deception operation, double cross, came in. Pretty early in the war, Britain had captured or turned practically every spy sent by Germany. And those turned were so good, German high command believed them over anything else. So when those agents told them the landings would be at Calais, German command put the bulk of their resources there.

The deception was so effective, even when D-day started, German high command believed it was a diversion from the real attack at Calais and didn't move to reinforce.

For anyone UK based and interested, there's an excellent exhibition covering this at the Imperial War Museum.

Edited November 19, 2023 by Setton

[Grey Area]

1 hour ago, Setton said:

You could be and are. Americans made up less than half the D-day force and a small minority of the ships deployed. The overwhelming majority were British ships.

They did know the invasion was coming. That's where the deception operation, double cross, came in. Pretty early in the war, Britain had captured or turned practically every spy sent by Germany. And those turned were so good, German high command believed them over anything else. So when those agents told them the landings would be at Calais, German command put the bulk of their resources there.

The deception was so effective, even when D-day started, German high command believed it was a diversion from the real attack at Calais and didn't move to reinforce.

For anyone UK based and interested, there's an excellent exhibition covering this at the Imperial War Museum.

Very nice post, I have not seen the exhibition which is remiss of me.

Anecdotally, my Gran, who was a Sergeant in the signals corps at the time of D-Day has her own place in history for relaying the command from Eisenhower to British commanders, to delay the Landings.

My Gran never spoke a word of this, until the Early 2000’s when my cousin did a school project on the war and asked my Gran to share some of her experiences.  My Gran bless her, called the MOD gave her service number and asked to speak to a senior officer for permission to disclose details of her service.

The MOD were amused, and  she was of course allowed to share her wartime experiences.  However, a month or so later a Major knocked on her door, he presented her with a letter of thanks and acknowledgement for her dedication of service, specifically for adhering to the official secrets act for so long signed by the Chief of the General Staff.  It was the one time I ever saw my Gran in tears.

[Setton]

38 minutes ago, Grey Area said:

Very nice post, I have not seen the exhibition which is remiss of me.

Anecdotally, my Gran, who was a Sergeant in the signals corps at the time of D-Day has her own place in history for relaying the command from Eisenhower to British commanders, to delay the Landings.

My Gran never spoke a word of this, until the Early 2000’s when my cousin did a school project on the war and asked my Gran to share some of her experiences.  My Gran bless her, called the MOD gave her service number and asked to speak to a senior officer for permission to disclose details of her service.

The MOD were amused, and  she was of course allowed to share her wartime experiences.  However, a month or so later a Major knocked on her door, he presented her with a letter of thanks and acknowledgement for her dedication of service, specifically for adhering to the official secrets act for so long signed by the Chief of the General Staff.  It was the one time I ever saw my Gran in tears.

Amazing story, thanks for sharing it and good for your gran taking it so seriously!

The IWM exhibition is on until April if you're in London - Spies, Lies and Deception.

[+and-then]

9 hours ago, Buzz_Light_Year said:

The buildup to D-Day was enormous and the amount of supplies and troops sent to Britain was staggering in the months preceding D-Day. How the German High Command missed it would be hard to explain.

They knew an invasion was coming but Ike had assigned Patton to be in charge of a phony mass formation of equipment that seemed to be destined to attack at the Pas de Calais:  The Germans couldn't believe any other general but Patton would be in charge of the invasion.

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_Army

[+and-then]

6 hours ago, A rather obscure Bassoon said:

Erdo needs NATO too much to allow a situation where he would be kicked out hence his constant tight rope walk between NATO, Russia and regional players.

He probably gets more intelligence from NATO listening posts than he ever would from his own lntelligence agency as good and experienced as it is.

 

Maybe, but his disrespect for NATO seems to increase every time a weak US president is in office.