when we become ancient's are time in the universe will be mystical

[+DieChecker]

5 hours ago, cormac mac airt said:

Every bit of what was written about Jesus was done so by complete and total strangers decades to generations AFTER his death. Can you speak to the veracity of any of those writers or their sources? No, you can’t! That leaves extremely little “truth” for you to know. 
 

cormac

One of the problems about everything in the ancient world is lack of corroboration.

I was just watching a video about Boudica. Supposedly there's only two good references she ever existed. One from 50 years after her rebellion, and one 150 years after, and neither agreed in most of the details. Yet she's taught about in schools and has a statue in London.

Point is we really know very little about almost everyone back more then a thousand years ago.

Just saying...

[openozy]

4 hours ago, trevor borocz johnson said:

Do you feel any prophecy has opened up to openozy lately? Even seemingly personal? 

I believe everything happens for a reason and we can't change what will be.

[trevor borocz johnson]

8 minutes ago, openozy said:

I believe everything happens for a reason and we can't change what will be.

There's only a certain number of ways to build a steam turbine in the universe so it actually works!  There are probably limits to contention that will plateau someday. What I'm saying is there are limits to reality, one can't just wish for something to be true. So changing what will be is sort of guided by what's possible?

[cormac mac airt]

6 hours ago, DieChecker said:

One of the problems about everything in the ancient world is lack of corroboration.

I was just watching a video about Boudica. Supposedly there's only two good references she ever existed. One from 50 years after her rebellion, and one 150 years after, and neither agreed in most of the details. Yet she's taught about in schools and has a statue in London.

Point is we really know very little about almost everyone back more then a thousand years ago.

Just saying...

None of which helps Will’s position. We know far more about Pontius Pilate than anything meaningful about Yeshua Ben Yosef and they were supposed to have been contemporary and directly involved with each other. Due to the lack of contemporary evidence Jesus comes across as nothing more than one of many hundreds, perhaps thousands, of nondescript wannabe-Messiahs and of no real importance to the Romans or his contemporaries. 
 

cormac

[Will Due]

1 hour ago, cormac mac airt said:

None of which helps Will’s position. We know far more about Pontius Pilate than anything meaningful about Yeshua Ben Yosef and they were supposed to have been contemporary and directly involved with each other. Due to the lack of contemporary evidence Jesus comes across as nothing more than one of many hundreds, perhaps thousands, of nondescript wannabe-Messiahs and of no real importance to the Romans or his contemporaries. 
 

cormac

 

Cormac,

A description of Jesus, what he did in his life, and what he taught, is recorded in text.  Those writings can be evaluated spiritually to their truthfulness and value. As far as I'm concerned, what is written about him is what matters. And there's a lot more written about him than what's written about Boudica.

This is what I do personally and I feel it has helped me to comprehend many things about God and how to live, as I've already stated before.

But that's just how it works for me. Everyone else can dismiss it all for whatever reason. According to what's written about Jesus, there were more than a few probably who actually stood right in front of him face to face and dismissed everything about him outright. That was their prerogative to do then, and everyone has the prerogative to do the same thing now.

When it was written, and the historical accuracy of who it was written about is, as far as I'm concerned, irrelevant to the meaning and value that can be personally evaluated of what is recorded about Jesus and what he taught.

Have a great day.

 

 

Edited December 1, 2023 by Will Due

[cormac mac airt]

36 minutes ago, Will Due said:

Cormac,

A description of Jesus, what he did in his life, and what he taught, is recorded in text.  Those writings can be evaluated spiritually to their truthfulness and value. As far as I'm concerned, what is written about him is what matters. And there's a lot more written about him than what's written about Boudica.

This is what I do personally and I feel it has helped me to comprehend many things about God and how to live, as I've already stated before.

But that's just how it works for me. Everyone else can dismiss it all for whatever reason. According to what's written about Jesus, there were more than a few probably who actually stood right in front of him face to face and dismissed everything about him outright. That was their prerogative to do then, and everyone has the prerogative to do the same thing now.

When it was written, and the historical accuracy of who it was written about is, as far as I'm concerned, irrelevant to the meaning and value that can be personally evaluated of what is recorded about Jesus and what he taught.

Have a great day.

Whatever.

cormac

[jmccr8]

5 hours ago, Will Due said:

A description of Jesus, what he did in his life, and what he taught, is recorded in text.

Hi Will

Yes the bible teaches what some have written about a Jesus character which you have expanded on with the added UB context which is not a part of what the bible says. Your Jesus is not the same Jesus that others not influenced by the UB hold a perspective of yours is unique to you. When we first started talking years ago your position was that the bible was corrupted and that you had to deem what was true and what wasn't, have you resolved that issue yet?

[Will Due]

44 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Will

Yes the bible teaches what some have written about a Jesus character which you have expanded on with the added UB context which is not a part of what the bible says. Your Jesus is not the same Jesus that others not influenced by the UB hold a perspective of yours is unique to you. When we first started talking years ago your position was that the bible was corrupted and that you had to deem what was true and what wasn't, have you resolved that issue yet?

 

Yes.

 

 

[jmccr8]

4 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

Yes.

 

 

HI Will

How?

[Will Due]

4 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

HI Will

How?

 

The same way I determine anything else that's true or false.

 

 

[cormac mac airt]

5 minutes ago, Will Due said:

The same way I determine anything else that's true or false.

Eenie, meenie, miney, mo….

cormac

[XenoFish]

13 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

Eenie, meenie, miney, 

cormac

Something felt missing.😁

[+Hammerclaw]

14 hours ago, DieChecker said:

Deoends on his purpose. To change, or to chase off.

Walker's gone now, and the skeptics remain. There's progress sometimes.

Like a marching band that three steps forward and two steps back.

[jmccr8]

1 hour ago, Will Due said:

 

The same way I determine anything else that's true or false.

 

 

Hi Will

I was kind of hoping for a more detailed response of what methodology you used in make your assesment.

 

 

[darkmoonlady]

The idea of Jesus is a lot like an ink blot test. The person's personal idea of what or who he was ends up being what he is because believers rarely take him at face value. Or enact their religious life based on what is supposed to be his words. Instead they transfer attributes and pronouncements they want and Jesus just becomes the unwitting trade marked character spokesman for whatever they're selling. The actual quantified Jesus that is known as much as be can be, bears zero resemblance to the nearly infinite versions created to control, sell and commodify churches, power, popularity, attention, glorification and promotion. Oddly nothing he was known for. 

Edited December 2, 2023 by darkmoonlady

[Guyver]

22 hours ago, openozy said:

I believe everything happens for a reason and we can't change what will be.

Why does everything happen for a reason?  Couldn’t everything just be happening randomly?

[Guyver]

2 hours ago, darkmoonlady said:

The idea of Jesus is a lot like an ink blot test. The person's personal idea of what or who he was ends up being what he is because believers rarely take him at face value. Or enact their religious life based on what is supposed to be his words. Instead they transfer attributes and pronouncements they want and Jesus just becomes the unwitting trade marked character spokesman for whatever they're selling. The actual quantified Jesus that is known as much as be can be, bears zero resemblance to the nearly infinite versions created to control, sell and commodify churches, power, popularity, attention, glorification and promotion. Oddly nothing he was known for. 

Winner.  Close thread. Not really.  Just saying.

[openozy]

49 minutes ago, Guyver said:

Why does everything happen for a reason?  Couldn’t everything just be happening randomly?

I don 't know, it's just my belief.

[trevor borocz johnson]

20 minutes ago, openozy said:

I don 't know, it's just my belief.

What is the main reason things happen? I don't think its random either.

[darkmoonlady]

19 minutes ago, trevor borocz johnson said:

What is the main reason things happen? I don't think its random either.

No real way of knowing. Ok imagine a fishbowl in a kids room, a saltwater tank in some bachelor pad and a big park aquarium. It's all fish and people taking care of them. The fish in the fishbowl undoubtedly think the kid who feeds them and flushes their dead friends might be god and all that happens to them is because of the kid. The saltwater fish have a professional that comes and cleans the tank once a month, clips in a food cartridge and balances the water chemistry. Those fish are pretty sure that fish guy is god. The aquarium fish never see anyone except once a year a diver comes in and cleans the glass. Their food and water maintenance all happens out of their sight, but they build a religion around the scuba guy because it's all they have. Does everything happen in their world for a reason? Or do they just not comprehend they're pets each in their own controlled environment and they just don't have better information? They have no concept of the kid doesn't control the house the fishbowl is in. The saltwater fish don't have a concept that the bachelor's boss dictates his paycheck to afford the fish guy. The aquarium fish believe in the scuba guy with no concept there is a complete system above them that includes staff, filters, pumps etc. Well that is us. If there is a god, its so many levels above us we can't conceptualize even if we tried to, what that would look like. We would think it would look like the kid or the fish guy or the scuba guy. We would think they hold the power. When really they have orders of levels of power and intelligence and knowledge we just can't grasp. Reason why things happen? What things? The crispy fish flakes, the gravel? Even our bigger questions as to the bigger questions come from such a micro sized understanding of a vast universe that reasons no matter how important we believe they are, are really not, and we are too small to register what is actually big and powerful. 

Edited December 2, 2023 by darkmoonlady

[openozy]

17 minutes ago, trevor borocz johnson said:

What is the main reason things happen? I don't think its random either.

Not really sure but I believe our lives are mapped out for us.

[TashaMarie]

On 11/29/2023 at 7:28 PM, Crazy Horse said:

Just so you know, but I don't follow any scripture, (not saying its bad per se..) but I do follow my heart.

Up-to-date, truthful and honest, in harmony, and the way to a beautiful, inner peace.

Just a suggestion but, go find GOD for yourself, within.

You can follow your heart as much as you like doesn't mean its right.

[TashaMarie]

58 minutes ago, openozy said:

Not really sure but I believe our lives are mapped out for us.

So by mapped out, do mean you think our lives are predetermined and beyond our control, or do you think the course of events may be altered?

[eight bits]

7 hours ago, darkmoonlady said:

The idea of Jesus is a lot like an ink blot test. The person's personal idea of what or who he was ends up being what he is.

Disclaimer: I have no idea what this thread is about, but I am unafraid of derailing it, because I suspect there are no rails.

It is a proverb among the guild (the serious students of the Bible with degrees, academic appointments, and all that jazz) that when scholars set off in their quest for the real "historical Jesus" they find themselves, or maybe the selves they wish they were.

They know this about themselves, and off they go anyway, and return to publish their books about the real Jesus, which are actually autobiographies with different costumes.

For all we know, @Piney is right, that the "real historical Jesus" was some version of a character in Josephus's Jewish War also named Jesus who died in 70 CE when his prophecy about the destruction of Jerusalem came true. For the eight years before that, this Jesus was a homeless crazy person adrift in the city, muttering a prophecy of doom over and over again. He came within an ace of being killed by the Roman procurator after the Temple officials turned Jesus over. Unlike Pilate, that procurator took pity on the crazy man, but flogged him until his bones were exposed before letting him go. Had such a case been referred to Pilate, Pilate probably would have killed Jesus, and if Philo is to be believed, Pilate was especially fond of crucifixion as a send-off.

I think big cities have always had such people living rough, and in First Century Jerusalem, many of them would have been named Jesus.

Piney's hunch will probably never catch on with the guild, even though they all know Josephus's story and they all see the similarities to the gospel Passion. The guild even have a stable consensus (maybe 100 years' worth now) that the Christian Jesus was an "apocalpyptic prophet." Just not that "apocalyptic prophet," not some homeless vagrant with no visible means of support (although that is the Jesus of the gospels, just saying).

Poor Piney. I guess he'll never be a professor of the New Testament. Which is too bad, because I think Princeton could use somebody like him, and what with him being a Jersey boy already, the commute wouldn't be too awful.

[Piney]

23 minutes ago, eight bits said:

Disclaimer: I have no idea what this thread is about, but I am unafraid of derailing it, because I suspect there are no rails.

It is a proverb among the guild (the serious students of the Bible with degrees, academic appointments, and all that jazz) that when scholars set off in their quest for the real "historical Jesus" they find themselves, or maybe the selves they wish they were.

They know this about themselves, and off they go anyway, and return to publish their books about the real Jesus, which are actually autobiographies with different costumes.

For all we know, @Piney is right, that the "real historical Jesus" was some version of a character in Josephus's Jewish War also named Jesus who died in 70 CE when his prophecy about the destruction of Jerusalem came true. For the eight years before that, this Jesus was a homeless crazy person adrift in the city, muttering a prophecy of doom over and over again. He came within an ace of being killed by the Roman procurator after the Temple officials turned Jesus over. Unlike Pilate, that procurator took pity on the crazy man, but flogged him until his bones were exposed before letting him go. Had such a case been referred to Pilate, Pilate probably would have killed Jesus, and if Philo is to be believed, Pilate was especially fond of crucifixion as a send-off.

I think big cities have always had such people living rough, and in First Century Jerusalem, many of them would have been named Jesus.

Piney's hunch will probably never catch on with the guild, even though they all know Josephus's story and they all see the similarities to the gospel Passion. The guild even have a stable consensus (maybe 100 years' worth now) that the Christian Jesus was an "apocalpyptic prophet." Just not that "apocalyptic prophet," not some homeless vagrant with no visible means of support (although that is the Jesus of the gospels, just saying).

Poor Piney. I guess he'll never be a professor of the New Testament. Which is too bad, because I think Princeton could use somebody like him, and what with him being a Jersey boy already, the commute wouldn't be too awful.

I went to several of Erhman's and Pagels' lectures in Princeton but my refusal to bend to the politically correct and the calling out of afrocentrism and fake Lenape Indians has me blackballed at Penn, Rutgers and Temple.