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How Religion Helps People


Guyver

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21 hours ago, Guyver said:

ONE- religion helps people because it gives people something to believe in.  

This I find a strange thing to say.

Why would anyone require something to believe in? What's this need some have? 

 

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Prehistoric people demonstrated religion or beliefs as shown in their burials.  They buried people with special objects.

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1 minute ago, psyche101 said:

This I find a strange thing to say.

Why would anyone require something to believe in? What's this need some have? 

 

Who wishes to be lost?

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1 minute ago, Guyver said:

You don’t think it can argued that we are hardwired by our DNA, our genes, and the expression of those genes influenced by environmental conditions?  If so, then we are hard-wired.  We are hard wired by Mother Nature herself.  So, what we have to argue is whether or not the propensity for superstitious beliefs, religion as a practice of those beliefs is part of our hard-wiring.  I argue that it is just because of the ridiculously high level of religions, and superstitious beliefs from people all over the world, for almost as far back as we can reliably go with science right now.

I don't think that's hardwired. 

It's more storytelling. Stories were all we had back then. To me the variations of Abrahamic religion more illustrate Chinese whispers as opposed to hardwiring.

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1 minute ago, Guyver said:

Who wishes to be lost?

I don't understand.

You feel not having a belief is being lost? 

How does that work? I sincerely am at a loss here. 

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3 minutes ago, Guyver said:

Prehistoric people demonstrated religion or beliefs as shown in their burials.  They buried people with special objects.

Why wouldn't you consider those burials as a mark of respect? Like having an ornate headstone? 

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8 minutes ago, Guyver said:

You don’t think it can argued that we are hardwired by our DNA, our genes, and the expression of those genes influenced by environmental conditions?  If so, then we are hard-wired.  We are hard wired by Mother Nature herself.  So, what we have to argue is whether or not the propensity for superstitious beliefs, religion as a practice of those beliefs is part of our hard-wiring.  I argue that it is just because of the ridiculously high level of religions, and superstitious beliefs from people all over the world, for almost as far back as we can reliably go with science right now.

I tend to take claims about genetics and what it does or doesn’t suggest seriously. You can provide evidence of this, correct? I’d be interested to read what study you took this from. 
 

BTW, archaeogenetics is one of my areas of interest. 
 

cormac

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12 minutes ago, Guyver said:

Who wishes to be lost?

By what criteria are you claiming people may be lost? 
 

cormac

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35 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

Why wouldn't you consider those burials as a mark of respect? Like having an ornate headstone? 

Good question.

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37 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

I don't understand.

You feel not having a belief is being lost? 

How does that work? I sincerely am at a loss here. 

In a sense, maybe yes.  If we abandon all beliefs and only stick with what we know, we are going to live here for a while, experience the joys and sorrows that life brings, then we are going to rot in the ground as our bodies decompose and there will be nothing.  How is that hopeful?  It’s not.  It is true, and maybe for some the truth hurts. Maybe for some people, just hoping that their actions in this life can somehow benefit them for the next life coming gives them a sense of purpose and a righteous path to follow.  You know this belief goes to the Egyptians as easily provable, but who’s to say this type of thinking did not predate the Egyptians?  I bet someone on this very forum might be knowledgeable enough to show that religious beliefs about the afterlife predate the Egyptians.  But even if not, that’s a long time for people to be carrying beliefs. And we could argue collective soul on this point I bet.

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35 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

By what criteria are you claiming people may be lost? 
 

cormac

In a spiritual sense.  If one has nothing to believe in aside from oneself…there’s really nothing else to believe in except for certain and inevitable death.

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49 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

I tend to take claims about genetics and what it does or doesn’t suggest seriously. You can provide evidence of this, correct? I’d be interested to read what study you took this from. 
 

BTW, archaeogenetics is one of my areas of interest. 
 

cormac

You want me to post one article from an entire branch of science to prove my point?  Please reference the nature verse nurture question.

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3 minutes ago, Guyver said:

You want me to post one article from an entire branch of science to prove my point?  Please reference the nature verse nurture question.

In other words you have nothing. Ok, thanks. 
 

cormac

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Just now, cormac mac airt said:

In other words you have nothing. Ok, thanks. 
 

cormac

So, you dismiss nature verses nurture.  Alrighty then.  

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15 minutes ago, Guyver said:

In a spiritual sense.  If one has nothing to believe in aside from oneself…there’s really nothing else to believe in except for certain and inevitable death.

There is plenty left to believe in, family, friends, the love for and from pets, etc. One doesn’t need a spiritual component to be fulfilled or happy. 
 

cormac

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4 minutes ago, Guyver said:

So, you dismiss nature verses nurture.  Alrighty then.  

No, I dismiss your belief in something being hard-wired that there is no evidence of being so. 
 

cormac

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I am reminded of a lyric from a tune by Jimi Hendrix called Voodoo Chile Slight Return.  In the second verse he says something to the effect of….”I don’t know if I’ll see you again in this world….see you in the next one don’t be late.”

This notion of the other life or rather the next one….has been around for a long long time, and it has been expressed enough by our English speaking ancestors and many people prior to that, not to mention all the people who embrace reincarnation.  This not only represents a large portion of our collective heritage, but extends to a vast majority of people in the world right now.  If you don’t think this has not effected our “collective unconscious” I think you would be mistaken.  
 

Back in the cowboy days, they’d say, “I’ll see you in hell ahole and I’ll be waitin for ya.”

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2 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

There is plenty left to believe in, family, friends, the love for and from pets, etc. One doesn’t need a spiritual component to be fulfilled or happy. 
 

cormac

Poor soul who doesn’t like pets or family.

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2 minutes ago, Guyver said:

Poor soul who doesn’t like pets or family.

Huh? That’s exactly the opposite of what I said. 
 

cormac

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6 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

Huh? That’s exactly the opposite of what I said. 
 

cormac

That was comedic irony.  One of us must have missed it.

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14 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

No, I dismiss your belief in something being hard-wired that there is no evidence of being so. 
 

cormac

I’m not willing to concede the argument.  I believe it is possible to demonstrate scientifically through studies already done, that gene expression in the human population is not only impacted by environmental conditions, but also psycho-social causes.  I will be glad to argue this point with science if you wish.

Edited by Guyver
Typo
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4 minutes ago, Guyver said:

That was comedic irony.  One of us must have missed it.

Considering I was talking to Will earlier it sounded like something he’d say. 
 

cormac

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3 minutes ago, Guyver said:

I’m not willing to concede the argument.  I believe it is possible to demonstrate scientifically through studies already done, that gene expression in the human population is not only impacted by environmental conditions, but also psycho-social causes.  I will be glad to argue this point with science if you wish.

We’re not talking about what gene expression’s are impacted by but your specific claim that we are hard-wired to believe. You’ve not shown that to be true. 
 

cormac

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1 hour ago, psyche101 said:

This I find a strange thing to say.

Why would anyone require something to believe in? What's this need some have? 

 

People thrive as humans when they have hope, and they perish when they have none.  That’s why.

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Just now, cormac mac airt said:

We’re not talking about what gene expression’s are impacted by but your specific claim that we are hard-wired to believe. You’ve not shown that to be true. 
 

cormac

No, I have not shown that to be true.  You are correct.  I have offered an argument with reasonable evidence demonstrating that it could be true.

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