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Science shows that free will doesn't exist, Stanford professor claims


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Free will is illusory.

We respond to stimuli through bundled conditioning.

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This is all based on the assumption of materialism. From Wikipedia:

Materialism is a form of philosophical monism which holds that matter is the fundamental substance in nature, and that all things, including mental states and consciousness, are results of material interactions of material things.

My position is that we are more than physical matter and include astral and soul bodies. I would start by pointing to a host of different paranormal/spiritual phenomena that makes no sense in a materialist worldview. And then move on to the hard problem of consciousness.

 

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Well,   I’ll say this about free will,   Nope,     Changed my mind.   

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16 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

My position is that we are more than physical matter and include astral and soul bodies.

How do you know astral and soul bodies have free will?

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Just now, Liquid Gardens said:

How do you know astral and soul bodies have free will?

My point was that the scientist the OP was discussing does not even know the components of man so his claims should not be taken as important. We are not this materialist machine implied by the article.

Now, on to my thoughts on free will. It is all relative to perspective. Being a subscriber to Advaita Vedanta philosophy (non-dual=God and creation are not-two Hinduism), ultimately there is only One will with a creative aspect. And we are that God/Brahman at our deepest level. 

In our down-to-earth relative reality we feel we are free willed individuals because that free/creative aspect is our essence but we have not yet realized the Oneness. 

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1 hour ago, lightly said:

Well,   I’ll say this about free will,   Nope,     Changed my mind.   

Or your mind was compelled to rebel against the concept by prior conditioning...

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3 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

My point was that the scientist the OP was discussing does not even know the components of man so his claims should not be taken as important. We are not this materialist machine implied by the article.

You don't know the components of man then either, so I'll keep in mind that we shouldn't take your claims as important by the same reasoning.  There's no obligation or actual reason to incorporate your largely evidence-free religious beliefs until you or someone can demonstrate they apply, he doesn't incorporate fairies either, that's not a problem. 

Regardless there isn't anything in the paranormal world that indicates that we have free will to any greater degree than the 'materialist'/real world.  "You shouldn't come to conclusions without first incorporating papa's religious beliefs" is a terrible argument.

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1 minute ago, Liquid Gardens said:

You don't know the components of man then either, so I'll keep in mind that we shouldn't take your claims as important by the same reasoning.  There's no obligation or actual reason to incorporate your largely evidence-free religious beliefs until you or someone can demonstrate they apply, he doesn't incorporate fairies either, that's not a problem. 

Regardless there isn't anything in the paranormal world that indicates that we have free will to any greater degree than the 'materialist'/real world.  "You shouldn't come to conclusions without first incorporating papa's religious beliefs" is a terrible argument.

I was simply giving my take on the OP subject. I am not telling anyone they need to accept my take on the matter. Free will resides in Source/Brahman Consciousness is my position and that Source resides in each living creature. This cannot be demonstrated through the scientific method, correct. 

The scientist in the OP can continue with materialism but I argue even real-world paranormal/spiritual events seem to disqualify that position.

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From the article….”Sapolsky also says that because our behaviour is determined in this way, nobody is morally responsible for what they do. He believes while we can lock up murderers to keep others safe, they technically don't deserve to be punished. ”

What a bunch of BS.

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3 hours ago, quiXilver said:

Or your mind was compelled to rebel against the concept by prior conditioning...

  Is   or  ever a possibility in a pre-determined Universe?     I admit, I haven’t read all the theories concerning such,  so, as far as I know, I still have free will.  :P     
          Hey quiXilver,  I was thinking about an exchange we had long ago…when I said  ..their is no isn’t , “their is only IS”…and you responded like I had said something genuinely profound..and I felt complimented..but I wonder now if you found my statement Foolish and were pulling my leg?  :P   It’s not important..just curious.   

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3 hours ago, docyabut2 said:

Was our lives planned out or just by free will ? 

I think our lives can play out in different ways..the outcomes of which are the results of our own variable choices and actions.?  OR the results of outside causes  … like a tidal wave, or a million other variable causes.

Edited by lightly
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6 hours ago, Liquid Gardens said:

How do you know astral and soul bodies have free will?

The choice of going into the light, or hanging around in between?

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59 minutes ago, lightly said:

I think our lives can play out in different ways..the outcomes of which are the results of our own variable choices and actions.?  OR the results of outside causes  … like a tidal wave, or a million other variable causes.

Even with outside causes there's still free will inside the cause. How you react afterwards is where free choice starts. In the case of a catastrophe do you sit around, and do nothing letting others do the work, or do you dig in and help? 

Then there are the evil rich. Seems like they made a choice to enrich themselves at expense of others. No one made them do it. 

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2 hours ago, Guyver said:

This makes science look bad.

Quote of the day.👍

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"Sapolsky also says that because our behaviour is determined in this way, nobody is morally responsible for what they do."

 

And there you have it: neuroscience is being coopted by pathological insecurity.  Someone give this guy a handful of mushrooms and put him in the woods.

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4 hours ago, Hankenhunter said:

The courts certainly believe in free will. 

What part of the justice system doesn't make sense if we don't have free will?  Even if we don't have free will it's not like everybody acts chaotically, most of us have boundaries.  Putting people in jail would still seem to be a logical thing to do both from a protection standpoint as well as possibly providing a deterrant to not commit crimes in the future.

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13 minutes ago, Liquid Gardens said:

What part of the justice system doesn't make sense if we don't have free will?  Even if we don't have free will it's not like everybody acts chaotically, most of us have boundaries.  Putting people in jail would still seem to be a logical thing to do both from a protection standpoint as well as possibly providing a deterrant to not commit crimes in the future.

Good point. I'll have to get back to you on this. I just smoked some pain killer, and my brain is agreeing, and disagreeing with you at the same time. 😆 But your point stands.

Edited by Hankenhunter
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1 hour ago, Liquid Gardens said:

What part of the justice system doesn't make sense if we don't have free will?  Even if we don't have free will it's not like everybody acts chaotically, most of us have boundaries.  Putting people in jail would still seem to be a logical thing to do both from a protection standpoint as well as possibly providing a deterrant to not commit crimes in the future.

I figured it out. I wasn't being sarcastic. Had to go back, and stare at my post for a second before it dawned on me. My bad. Lol. I completely agree with you.

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