Top German politician calls for closer links between UK and EU

[pellinore]

A leading figure in Germany’s ruling Social Democratic party (SPD) has called for far closer links between the UK and the European Union, amid rising concerns the Brexit divide is harming efforts to solve international crises, including mass migration.

Martin Schulz, a former SPD leader and candidate to be chancellor of Germany, said it was vital that regular meetings, known in EU jargon as “structured dialogue”, be set up to bind the UK closer to the EU – and Germany – once again.

These could involve regular contacts between government figures and citizens to discuss policy issues of common concern, though outside the EU’s ambit. “The distance between the member states of the EU and the institutions of the union, and the UK, has increased during the last three or four years. Every day, it is a little bit more,” Schulz said in an interview with the Observer.

‘Alone you are weak’: top German politician calls for closer links between UK and EU | Germany | The Guardian

Edited December 2, 2023 by pellinore

[L.A.T.1961]

The EU/Germany is fully aware it cannot function without including influence from the UK.

It was always going to be the case. 

But the UK is no longer paying for it or bound by EU mandate, we will have our say and then do as we think reasonable.

It was called cherry picking at one point. Or having your cake and eat it. 

[itsnotoutthere]

Again, they are so desperate to get us back, what makes you think they need the money. It must be embarrassing for them. 😃

Edited December 2, 2023 by itsnotoutthere

[Unusual Tournament]

2 hours ago, L.A.T.1961 said:

The EU/Germany is fully aware it cannot function without including influence from the UK.

It was always going to be the case. 

But the UK is no longer paying for it or bound by EU mandate, we will have our say and then do as we think reasonable.

It was called cherry picking at one point. Or having your cake and eat it. 

I think this call for cooperation is on a political and military level only. Probably an anticipation of a new UK government 

[Destination Unknown]

5 hours ago, pellinore said:

A leading figure in Germany’s ruling Social Democratic party (SPD) has called for far closer links between the UK and the European Union, amid rising concerns the Brexit divide is harming efforts to solve international crises, including mass migration.

Martin Schulz, a former SPD leader and candidate to be chancellor of Germany, said it was vital that regular meetings, known in EU jargon as “structured dialogue”, be set up to bind the UK closer to the EU – and Germany – once again.

These could involve regular contacts between government figures and citizens to discuss policy issues of common concern, though outside the EU’s ambit. “The distance between the member states of the EU and the institutions of the union, and the UK, has increased during the last three or four years. Every day, it is a little bit more,” Schulz said in an interview with the Observer.

‘Alone you are weak’: top German politician calls for closer links between UK and EU | Germany | The Guardian

Blimey, first unelected EU Commission President Ursula von der Leyen, and now another renowned europhile, both calling for closer ties with the UK... in the same week.

Given that these rabid europhiles don't do anything unless it's to further their federalist European wet dream, anyone should be sceptical of their ulterior motives... maybe they're missing our money. 🤔

👇👇👇👇👇

https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2023/11/01/brussels-opens-pandoras-box-with-100-billion-budget-top-up-request

[pellinore]

3 hours ago, itsnotoutthere said:

Again, they are so desperate to get us back, what makes you think they need the money. It must be embarrassing for them. 😃

34 minutes ago, Destination Unknown said:

Blimey, first unelected EU Commission President Ursula von der Leyen, and now another renowned europhile, both calling for closer ties with the UK... in the same week.

Given that these rabid europhiles don't do anything unless it's to further their federalist European wet dream, anyone should be sceptical of their ulterior motives... maybe they're missing our money. 🤔

👇👇👇👇👇

https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2023/11/01/brussels-opens-pandoras-box-with-100-billion-budget-top-up-request

Money? Brexit has diminished the UK. No one is after our money, investment it well down. They just recognise something you both miss- we are European. It is our continent, and where our future lies. Are you happy for us to become some kind of banana republic, pan-handling all around Asia?

[Destination Unknown]

14 minutes ago, pellinore said:

Money? Brexit has diminished the UK. No one is after our money, investment it well down. They just recognise something you both miss- we are European. It is our continent, and where our future lies. Are you happy for us to become some kind of banana republic, pan-handling all around Asia?

I suppose you think we were some kind of banana republic before we were conned into joining that far too overpriced political union folly as well eh? 🤦

Europe is a continental region consisting of around 50 countries, whilst the EU is a political institution consisting of just 27 of those European countries, so just because we're European, that doesn't automatically mean that we should be forced to accept being in a European political union that nobody ever even voted to join in the first place, but one that has been imposed on us through stealth without our consent does it? 🤦

Are you happy for us to sell our country out to a wannabe federal European Superstate just to become a mere region of Brussels?

We're better than that. Previous generations even gave the ultimate sacrifice to make sure that never happens, but you would obviously willingly trample all over their graves to do it. You make me sick.

👇👇👇👇👇👇

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/12/01/mario-draghi-european-union-single-megastate-italy/

Edited December 2, 2023 by Destination Unknown

[pellinore]

7 minutes ago, Destination Unknown said:

I suppose you think we were some kind of banana republic before we were conned into joining that far too overpriced political union folly as well eh? 🤦

Europe is a continental region consisting of around 50 countries, whilst the EU is a political institution consisting of just 27 of those European countries, so just because we're European, that doesn't automatically mean that we should be forced to accept being in a European political union that nobody ever even voted to join in the first place, but one that has been imposed on us through stealth without our consent does it? 🤦

Are you happy for us to sell our country out to a wannabe federal European Superstate just to become a mere region of Brussels?

We're better than that. Previous generations even gave the ultimate sacrifice to make sure that never happens, but you would obviously willingly trample all over their graves to do it. You make me sick.

👇👇👇👇👇👇

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/12/01/mario-draghi-european-union-single-megastate-italy/

James O'Brian explains it better than I can. We hate opening Idiots Corner:

 

Edited December 2, 2023 by pellinore

[Destination Unknown]

Just now, pellinore said:

James O'Brian explains it better than I can:

 

He's another one that would willingly sell our country out to a wannabe federal European Superstate and see it reduced to a mere region of Brussels.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/12/01/mario-draghi-european-union-single-megastate-italy/

[pellinore]

4 minutes ago, Destination Unknown said:

He's another one that would willingly sell our country out to a wannabe federal European Superstate and see it reduced to a mere region of Brussels.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/12/01/mario-draghi-european-union-single-megastate-italy/

I actually agree with you on this. We should belong to a superstate, economically powerful and able to stand up to Asia (and the US). We should be thinking about the future, not the past when we were a superpower. We are slowly destroying our agriculture, fishing, and manufacturing. To pander to racist bigots who are making our situation about immigration worse, not better. Just open your eyes and see what is actually happening. 

[Destination Unknown]

28 minutes ago, pellinore said:

I actually agree with you on this. We should belong to a superstate, economically powerful and able to stand up to Asia (and the US). We should be thinking about the future, not the past when we were a superpower. We are slowly destroying our agriculture, fishing, and manufacturing. To pander to racist bigots who are making our situation about immigration worse, not better. Just open your eyes and see what is actually happening. 

You just couldn't help it could you. Arrogantly branding 17.4 million people as being racist bigots just because they happen to have a different opinion to you about the EU and the direction it has taken. And you seriously wonder why Remain lost the vote, it's your total sneering arrogance that you think you know better than everyone else that's the very reason why Remain lost in the first place.

You idiots haven't learnt a single thing from history at all have you really?

It was the attempt to bring an entire continental region under the control of a single, unelected entity without gaining (or even seeking) the consent of the people in the nations affected that was the cause of the last World War in the first place, but you maniacs obviously think it was a great idea and we should be forced to do it all over again.

You can't just impose political union on people through stealth without their consent and expect them to just accept it, which is what happened to the British people when that pro-EU traitor John Major took it upon himself to sign 'The Maastricht Treaty' (the foundation of the EU) in 1992 without him even having the decency to ask the British people whether we even wanted to be a part of this European political "Project".

So when we were finally given a chance to vote directly on the matter, nearly 25 years after 'Maastricht', is it any wonder that those of us who've been dragged, unwillingly, into this unwanted political union voted to get out?

Edited December 3, 2023 by Destination Unknown

[Duke Wellington]

7 hours ago, pellinore said:

A leading figure in Germany’s ruling Social Democratic party (SPD) has called for far closer links between the UK and the European Union, amid rising concerns the Brexit divide is harming efforts to solve international crises, including mass migration.

Martin Schulz, a former SPD leader and candidate to be chancellor of Germany, said it was vital that regular meetings, known in EU jargon as “structured dialogue”, be set up to bind the UK closer to the EU – and Germany – once again.

These could involve regular contacts between government figures and citizens to discuss policy issues of common concern, though outside the EU’s ambit. “The distance between the member states of the EU and the institutions of the union, and the UK, has increased during the last three or four years. Every day, it is a little bit more,” Schulz said in an interview with the Observer.

‘Alone you are weak’: top German politician calls for closer links between UK and EU | Germany | The Guardian

What the Franco-Prussians are saying there is...

If we can get the UK back in our own mass immigration will be lower as they will flock to the little island. I say back to them, all this nonsense is your fault, you put the moustache in charge, and now none of us can have sane immigration policies.

[Duke Wellington]

41 minutes ago, pellinore said:

I actually agree with you on this. We should belong to a superstate, economically powerful and able to stand up to Asia (and the US). We should be thinking about the future, not the past when we were a superpower. We are slowly destroying our agriculture, fishing, and manufacturing. To pander to racist bigots who are making our situation about immigration worse, not better. Just open your eyes and see what is actually happening. 

Gasps, dear God no. Time to deport @pellinore thats the final straw that comment from you, you Franco-Prussian lover!!!

You need a good dose of tea and biscuits, cricket, and a good old sing along of Rule Britannia.

On a more serious note you do realise that at some point, maybe this century, maybe not, they are going to get the next `great leader` come along and they have already aligned most of Europe to him. Its a disaster waiting to happen. An EU Super State might protect its members from war, but when it comes it`s going to be a huge task stopping it for everyone else. It would be better to have lots of little independent states then a madman won`t start with a vast power base.

Britain on its own will not be able to save them from their insanity (again). I dont think even the USA and Russia with us would be enough (the EU still has a higher combined population. We would need China or India onboard too.

[pellinore]

6 hours ago, Destination Unknown said:

You just couldn't help it could you. Arrogantly branding 17.4 million people as being racist bigots just because they happen to have a different opinion to you about the EU and the direction it has taken.

I know, it is a puzzle, isn't it? The Brexit points-based immigration system is expressly designed to exclude Europeans coming here temporarily and encourage permanent immigration from Africa (2 million people over the last three years). And leaving the Dublin agreement means it is so much harder to deport illegal immigrants. At the same time, the Brexit government is wasting hundreds of millions publicly making a show of "getting tough" on immigration (another £15 million given to Rwanda, I see). It just doesn't add up.

The Brexiters love to welcome the rest of the world to the UK. Personally, I don't think we have the housing stock or infrastructure to welcome 500,000 new arrivals each year- which is what is forecast if we continue with our present system.

 UK ready to give Rwanda £15m to seal new small boats treaty, report suggests | South Wales Argus

Edited December 3, 2023 by pellinore

[Destination Unknown]

3 minutes ago, pellinore said:

I know, it is a puzzle, isn't it? The Brexit points-based system is expressly designed to exclude Europeans coming here temporarily and encourage permanent immigration from Africa (2 million people over the last three years). And leaving the Dublin agreement means it is so much harder to deport illegal immigrants. At the same time, the Brexit government is wasting hundreds of millions publicly making a show of "getting tough" on immigration (another £15 million given to Rwanda, I see). It just doesn't add up. The Brexiters love to welcome the rest of the world to the UK:  UK ready to give Rwanda £15m to seal new small boats treaty, report suggests | South Wales Argus

No it isn't. The new points based system makes it fair for everyone, no matter where in the world they come from.

Why, for instance, should a Spanish doctor be employed in the UK over and above an equally qualified doctor from, say, Nigeria, just because the Spanish doctor is living in an EU country and the Nigerian doctor isn't?

Why should a non-EU immigrant have to go through the process of obtaining a work permit and visa whilst an EU immigrant doesn't need to?

Why shouldn't the Spanish doctor have to go through the same immigration procedure as the Nigerian doctor would have to?

Surely that is racist discrimination, so why aren't you bleating about THAT?

Why do you support such a racist immigration policy that discriminates against those outside of the EU?

Do you think that the predominantly white European citizens of the EU are superior to non-European citizens from, say, Africa then?

You sit there and arrogantly brand US as being racist bigots, whilst defending a policy that mitigates against Black, Chinese, Asian, Maori, First Nation and Arab peoples in favour of Caucasian Europeans... And you can't see the irony?

[pellinore]

9 minutes ago, Destination Unknown said:

No it isn't. The new points based system makes it fair for everyone, no matter where in the world they come from.

Fair? You think the UK is such a huge country it can absorb 500,000 new arrivals each year? While there are families living for years in bed and breakfast because of the housing shortage? If you love "the rest of the world" so much you need to move to Africa, instead of bringing Africa to us. Leave the UK to those of us who care about it.

[Destination Unknown]

2 hours ago, pellinore said:

If you love "the rest of the world" so much you need to move to Africa, instead of bringing Africa to us.

Careful there pellinore, you're starting to sound a lot more like the far-right racist bigot you're obviously quite happy to arrogantly brand me as being, because it sounds like you're the one that has a problem with people with a different skin colour, not me. 🤔

Annoyingly for you, according to a report earlier this year by the 'Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development' (OECD), the UK has shot up an international ranking of countries that are most attractive to highly qualified workers, owing to changes to the migration regime introduced after the UK's democratically mandated exit from the European Union.

The 'OECD' reported in March 2023 that the UK had risen up its "talent attractiveness" list faster than any other country since 2019, numbering in the Top 10. 🤔

Quote: "The international organization said the UK made the biggest improvement in "talent attractiveness" in 2023, moving up nine places to 7th since 2019, and climbing above the US and Canada for the first time."

👇👇👇👇👇👇

https://biz.crast.net/brexit-freedoms-make-britain-a-magnet-for-highly-skilled-migrants-oecd-says/

 

Meanwhile, from the same 'OECD' report:

"Germany slumps to 15th place in OECD study on attracting skilled labour" - ooops. 🤦

👇👇👇👇👇

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/germany-slumps-15th-place-oecd-study-attracting-skilled-labour-2023-03-09/

 

Edited December 3, 2023 by Destination Unknown

[Ozymandias]

13 hours ago, Destination Unknown said:

You just couldn't help it could you. Arrogantly branding 17.4 million people as being racist bigots just because they happen to have a different opinion to you about the EU and the direction it has taken. And you seriously wonder why Remain lost the vote, it's your total sneering arrogance that you think you know better than everyone else that's the very reason why Remain lost in the first place.

You idiots haven't learnt a single thing from history at all have you really?

Seems to me the people who learn nothing from history are the Brexiteers and the supporters of the Tories. 

13 hours ago, Destination Unknown said:

It was the attempt to bring an entire continental region under the control of a single, unelected entity without gaining (or even seeking) the consent of the people in the nations affected that was the cause of the last World War in the first place, but you maniacs obviously think it was a great idea and we should be forced to do it all over again.

Your comments betray a shocking ignorance of the facts which are available to anyone with any integrity. Only 60% of European countries are full members of the EU (27 out of 44) and there is no single unelected entity. All EU law is enacted by democratically elected politicians from every member state. Parliament elects the President and the Commissioners. The European Commission whose members are appointed by the Council of Ministers, is the executive body of the EU but is wholly accountable to the European Parliament and only has a term of 5 years.

13 hours ago, Destination Unknown said:

You can't just impose political union on people through stealth without their consent and expect them to just accept it, which is what happened to the British people when that pro-EU traitor John Major took it upon himself to sign 'The Maastricht Treaty' (the foundation of the EU) in 1992 without him even having the decency to ask the British people whether we even wanted to be a part of this European political "Project".

You don't live in a democracy where the people are sovereign. In your system, parliament is sovereign and it was your elected elites who made all sovereign decisions regarding the UK's involvement with the EEC/EU.

13 hours ago, Destination Unknown said:

So when we were finally given a chance to vote directly on the matter, nearly 25 years after 'Maastricht', is it any wonder that those of us who've been dragged, unwillingly, into this unwanted political union voted to get out?

It's not a political union. Every country in the EU is sovereign and makes its own decisions about the levels of integration it finds acceptable. Many countries obtain derogations from major EU policies, the most notable being the UK when it was a member. 

 

[Destination Unknown]

5 hours ago, Ozymandias said:

All EU law is enacted by democratically elected politicians from every member state.

And which particular EU body is responsible for "proposing" those EU policies and laws in the first place Ozy? 🤔

That's right, it's the "unelected" EU Commission isn't it Ozy, with the "elected" MEPs in the EU's fake Parliament simply voting on their proposals....

Here, from your beloved EU's own website.

Quote: "The European Commission is responsible for planning, preparing and proposing new European laws. It has the right to do this on its own initiative."

Now just imagine the outcry if the UK's "unelected" Civil Service decided it should be the body responsible for proposing the UK's policies and laws, with the "elected" UK MP's simply voting on their proposals. That would be the definition of absolute insanity wouldn't it Ozy? 🤔 👇👇👇👇

https://commission.europa.eu/about-european-commission/what-european-commission-does/law_en

 

5 hours ago, Ozymandias said:

You don't live in a democracy where the people are sovereign. In your system, parliament is sovereign and it was your elected elites who made all sovereign decisions regarding the UK's involvement with the EEC/EU.

Parliament is only sovereign by our good grace, they are loaned our sovereignty for a set period of time, we then take it back via our General Elections (or the reason we have General Elections) because it is the people who hold the power, and it is they who decide via the vote who they want to represent their interests, so it is the people that are sovereign, we just lend our sovereignty to Parliament, and then we take it back when there is a General Election.

Therefore, MP's in Parliament are employed by us, the people, to do what we instruct them to do, and we instructed our employees in Parliament to take us out of the EU, and they tried everything they could to prevent that from happening - How can we ever forget (or even forgive) the absolutely shameful antics of the 2017 - 2019 zombie Parliament, who, working with a Remain bias Speaker (Bercow) all conspired between them to frustrate the UK's democratically mandated exit from the European Union.

You may find this article in 'The Financial Times', written by Professor Vernon Bogdanor, published on December 9th 2016: "After the referendum, the people, not parliament, are sovereign" relevant to this part of the discussion.

Professor Vernon Bernard Bogdanor CBE, FRSA, FBA is a British political scientist and historian who is a research professor at the 'Institute for Contemporary British History' at King's College London and professor of politics at the New College of the Humanities. He is also emeritus professor of politics and government at the University of Oxford and an emeritus fellow of Brasenose College, Oxford.

He is one of Britain's foremost constitutional experts and has written extensively on political and constitutional issues, so I would say that it's a pretty safe bet that this guy certainly knows exactly what he is talking about, wouldn't you? 👇👇👇👇

https://www.ft.com/content/9b00bca0-bd61-11e6-8b45-b8b81dd5d080

 

5 hours ago, Ozymandias said:

It's not a political union.

The EU is a political union, it even says so on their own website.

Quote: "The European Union (EU) is a unique economic *and political union* between 27 European countries." 👇👇👇👇

https://op.europa.eu/webpub/com/eu-what-it-is/en/

 

5 hours ago, Ozymandias said:

Every country in the EU is sovereign....

You cannot be a sovereign nation whilst being a member of the European Union, because European Union law takes precedence over national laws whilst you are a member. The primacy of European Union law is an EU law principle that when there is conflict between EU law and the law of Member States, EU law prevails and national laws have to be set aside. In effect, you have another political institution imposing its own political influence on a supposedly sovereign nation. Our national Parliament was therefore not the supreme legal authority in our own country.

In a statement issued on Friday 8th October 2021 after the ruling by the Polish Constitutional Tribunal that the Polish Constitution overrides EU law, European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen reaffirmed the primacy of EU law, stating that, quote:

"Our Treaties are very clear. All rulings by the European Court of Justice are binding on all Member States' authorities, including national courts. EU law has primacy over national law, including constitutional provisions." 👇👇👇👇

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/statement_21_5163

 

5 hours ago, Ozymandias said:

Your comments betray a shocking ignorance of the facts which are available to anyone with any integrity.

Having ripped every single one of your points to shreds with facts that are available to anyone with any integrity, it seems that it's your comments that betray a shocking ignorance of the facts.

Now with all due respect Ozy, maybe you should think about keeping your nose out of UK/EU politics and stick to Australian politics to save yourself further embarrassment on here. Just a thought. 🤔

Edited December 3, 2023 by Destination Unknown

[Ozymandias]

On 12/3/2023 at 7:07 PM, Destination Unknown said:

Parliament is only sovereign by our good grace, they are loaned our sovereignty for a set period of time, we then take it back via our General Elections (or the reason we have General Elections) because it is the people who hold the power, and it is they who decide via the vote who they want to represent their interests, so it is the people that are sovereign, we just lend our sovereignty to Parliament, and then we take it back when there is a General Election.

You quote Professor Vernon Bogdanor CBE, FRSA, FBA, a ninety year old academic with an interpretation that is very much challenged by other equally qualified and experienced academics. Yes, the sovereignty of parliament has been challenged by the 2016 Referendum, but referendums are advisory in the UK, not binding. Legally, the UK parliament, the font of all UK law, is sovereign, and not the people. There is no constitutional imperative upon the UK parliament requiring it to hold a referendum at any time on any issue. In fact, the sovereignty of parliament is proven by the fact that the people can only have a referendum if, and only if, parliament agrees to pass a law permitting the people to be heard. The will of the people is at the behest of parliamentary sovereignty.  

On 12/3/2023 at 7:07 PM, Destination Unknown said:

You cannot be a sovereign nation whilst being a member of the European Union, because European Union law takes precedence over national laws whilst you are a member. The primacy of European Union law is an EU law principle that when there is conflict between EU law and the law of Member States, EU law prevails and national laws have to be set aside. In effect, you have another political institution imposing its own political influence on a supposedly sovereign nation. Our national Parliament was therefore not the supreme legal authority in our own country.

You obviously do not understand how the EU works, or choose not to. All member states are sovereign and remain sovereign even when they transfer powers to the EU. Ireland is a case in point.

In Ireland, the legitimacy of all our primary and secondary law comes solely from our Constitution and that derives from the Irish people who are sovereign. We are signatories to many international treaties and our law must conform with them and they with us. We signed up to the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR), for example, and its principles have been incorporated into Irish law. We cannot enter into any international treaty that does not comply with our Constitution and agrees with the will of the Irish people.

The EU is not a federation whose powers derive centrally. It can only act in accordance with the competences and powers bestowed upon it under the Treaties signed by its constituent member countries. These competences relate exclusively to the functioning of the Single Market and the Customs Union, i.e. custom union rules, competition rules, monetary policy, marine resources, commercial policy, social policy, and trade. The EU has no superior authority over areas of national life such as civil protection, foreign policy, national security, education, training, culture, tourism, or health.  

[Essan]

You don't have to be in the EU to cooperate closely in all matters with EU (and non EU) countries, have trade agreements with them and even free movement of people.  

We could have left the EU and kept (most of) the benefits if only the average mental age of Tory MPs was higher than 6.

[Destination Unknown]

1 hour ago, Ozymandias said:

referendums are advisory in the UK, not binding.

Here we go again with that tired old Remoaner line that the referendum was only advisory - yes, we get that, you lot have never ceased reminding us of that one since the day of the result when it had finally dawned on you that you had lost the vote.

Unless otherwise stated, referenda in the UK are advisory until they are ratified through Parliament with a majority vote in the House of Commons.

In 2015 MPs in Parliament debated and then voted by nearly 6 to 1 (316 to 53, a majority of 263) in favour of giving the British people a say on the issue of EU membership in a straight In/Out referendum.

After the EU Referendum result, Parliament then debated and voted with a majority of 384 votes (498 to 114) in favour of activating 'Article 50' of 'The Lisbon Treaty' to start the process of leaving the EU.

Parliament also debated and voted with a majority of 372 votes (494 to 122) in favour of passing the 'European Union (Notification of Withdrawal) Bill 2017'. Once the EU Withdrawal Bill attained Royal Assent, the result of the referendum to Leave the EU became an 'Act of Parliament' and binding in law.

The EU referendum was the perfect example of Parliamentary democracy in action.

1 hour ago, Ozymandias said:

You obviously do not understand how the EU works, or choose not to. All member states are sovereign and remain sovereign even when they transfer powers to the EU. Ireland is a case in point.

I understand perfectly how the EU "works". You cannot be a sovereign nation whilst being a member of the European Union, because European Union law takes precedence over national laws whilst you are a member. It's as simple as that.

From the EU's own website, quote: "The principle of the primacy (also referred to as ‘precedence’ or ‘supremacy’) of European Union (EU) law is based on the idea that where a conflict arises between an aspect of EU law and an aspect of law in an EU Member State (national law), EU law will prevail." 👇👇👇👇

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/summary/glossary/primacy_of_eu_law.html

 

I can only surmise by your lack of understanding of how our democracy works and how the EU "works" you really do like getting your backside handed to you on here, but you just carry on if you want, there's still more of a hole for you to dig. 🤦

Edited December 9, 2023 by Destination Unknown

[Ozymandias]

14 minutes ago, Destination Unknown said:

Here we go again with that tired old Remoaner line that the referendum was only advisory - yes, we get that, you lot have never ceased reminding us of that one since the day of the result when it had finally dawned on you that you had lost the vote.

Unless otherwise stated, referenda in the UK are advisory until they are ratified through Parliament with a majority vote in the House of Commons.

In 2015 MPs in Parliament debated and then voted by nearly 6 to 1 (316 to 53, a majority of 263) in favour of giving the British people a say on the issue of EU membership in a straight In/Out referendum.

After the EU Referendum result, Parliament then debated and voted with a majority of 384 votes (498 to 114) in favour of activating 'Article 50' of 'The Lisbon Treaty' to start the process of leaving the EU.

Parliament also debated and voted with a majority of 372 votes (494 to 122) in favour of passing the 'European Union (Notification of Withdrawal) Bill 2017'. Once the EU Withdrawal Bill attained Royal Assent, the result of the referendum to Leave the EU became an 'Act of Parliament' and binding in law.

The EU referendum was the perfect example of Parliamentary democracy in action.

I understand perfectly how the EU "works". You cannot be a sovereign nation whilst being a member of the European Union, because European Union law takes precedence over national laws whilst you are a member. It's as simple as that.

From the EU's own website, quote: "The principle of the primacy (also referred to as ‘precedence’ or ‘supremacy’) of European Union (EU) law is based on the idea that where a conflict arises between an aspect of EU law and an aspect of law in an EU Member State (national law), EU law will prevail." 👇👇👇👇

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/summary/glossary/primacy_of_eu_law.html

 

I can only surmise by your lack of understanding of how our democracy works and how the EU "works" you really do like getting your backside handed to you on here, but you just carry on if you want, there's still more of a hole for you to dig. 🤦

I'll say it again. EU law only takes precedent in areas of law that pertain to those competences allowed it by sovereign members through the treaties they signed. 

[Destination Unknown]

Just now, Ozymandias said:

I'll say it again. EU law only takes precedent in areas of law that pertain to those competences allowed it by sovereign members through the treaties they signed. 

And I'll say it again. You cannot be a sovereign nation whilst being a member of the European Union, because European Union law takes precedence over national laws whilst you are a member, it's as simple as that.

Can you name me a valid reason why you think a supposedly sovereign nation should have its own laws struck down in favour of another political entities laws?

[Ozymandias]

33 minutes ago, Destination Unknown said:

And I'll say it again. You cannot be a sovereign nation whilst being a member of the European Union, because European Union law takes precedence over national laws whilst you are a member, it's as simple as that.

Can you name me a valid reason why you think a supposedly sovereign nation should have its own laws struck down in favour of another political entities laws?

Just like you cannot be a sovereign member of any club if, while you remain a member, its laws apply. You have to be a team player or you are out. I know people who have disagreed with changes to club rules and leave. 

While Ireland is a member of the EU it is completely happy to let it legislate for its own Single Market and Customs Union. And we get to [articipate in the rule making procedure.